Author Topic: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you. UPDATE P17  (Read 28297 times)

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bloo

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2012, 11:47:33 AM »
She left her injured friend alone in an area people had been mugged in, took off, and then lied to everyone about what had happened. I cannot see her behavior as justifiable.

Yeah, Stacy was pretty yucky. If this is a one-off, then Kelly can try reasoning with her. A social-climbing, careless, lying, argumentative little snot might not able to be reasoned with, though.

Zilla

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2012, 11:47:40 AM »
I think that's where the empathy comes in.  I would have stayed.  But like TurtleDove said, if she wasn't asked specifically it isn't necessarily rude to keep running.  It may appear to be a lack of empathy but shouldn't be.


But in the OP's specific scenario, why would she lie to the others?

TurtleDove

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2012, 11:48:22 AM »

Again, where do you get that she didn't ask? We don't know from the OP whether she asked or not.

The OP was relatively thorough and made no mention of Kelly asking Stacey to stay.  I asked the OP to clarify and we have not heard yet.  I am going off what was in the OP.

bloo

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2012, 11:49:16 AM »
I think that's where the empathy comes in.  I would have stayed.  But like TurtleDove said, if she wasn't asked specifically it isn't necessarily rude to keep running.  It may appear to be a lack of empathy but shouldn't be.


But in the OP's specific scenario, why would she lie to the others?

Simple, because she knew her friend was injured and the 'cool kids' might've thought it weird that she didn't stay with her friend.

Zilla

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2012, 11:51:21 AM »
I think that's where the empathy comes in.  I would have stayed.  But like TurtleDove said, if she wasn't asked specifically it isn't necessarily rude to keep running.  It may appear to be a lack of empathy but shouldn't be.


But in the OP's specific scenario, why would she lie to the others?

Simple, because she knew her friend was injured and the 'cool kids' might've thought it weird that she didn't stay with her friend.


I was asking the OP, if she comes back to clarify.  I think the same thing Bloo!

bloo

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2012, 11:53:46 AM »
I think that's where the empathy comes in.  I would have stayed.  But like TurtleDove said, if she wasn't asked specifically it isn't necessarily rude to keep running.  It may appear to be a lack of empathy but shouldn't be.


But in the OP's specific scenario, why would she lie to the others?

Simple, because she knew her friend was injured and the 'cool kids' might've thought it weird that she didn't stay with her friend.


I was asking the OP, if she comes back to clarify.  I think the same thing Bloo!

Gotcha! I'd love to know too, so I hope Weeble can respond when able. :)

Cat-Fu

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2012, 11:55:48 AM »
I think the point is that someone who is empathetic would stop their run and take the time to ensure that their friend is OK to walk before running off. (Especially in an area where muggings happen, assuming daylight doesn't make a difference, which is the case in many areas.)

Kelly should hold off answering Stacey's calls until she receives a voicemail with a sincere apology in it.
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Cyradis

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2012, 11:56:12 AM »
If I was Kelly I wouldn't bother to try and make Stacy see her point of view. Stacy sounds self absorbed and petty and that type can seldom comprehend that they messed up. It will probably be amusing to think of Stacy trying to do damage control if her 'cool' friends condemn her for abandoning Kelly.

WillyNilly

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2012, 11:56:20 AM »
Kelly had a missed step about five miles into the ten mile run and severely injured her ankle.  It immediately started to swell and she was in a lot of pain.

They say communication is only about 8-10% verbal, the rest is body language.
As far as I'm concerned Kelly did ask Stacy to help, even if non verbally.  Her ankle was visibly swollen.  This is absolute evidence of an injury.  For Stacy to leave even if Kelly said she could hobble, was socially and morally irresponsible of Stacy.  As a friend foremost, but even just as a human, Stacy had a moral obligation to help a visibly injured person to safety, or to at least notify someone of the issue if she left.  (By lying to the two other women Stacy killed any chance of any of them finding a park employee and notifying that person of an injured person further back on the trail.)

wolfie

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2012, 11:58:22 AM »
 I reread the OP's story again and I interpret the bit about Stacey refusing to stay and telling Kelley to hobble back as Kelley asked for help and Stacey said no and told Kelley she could get back on her own.

TootsNYC

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2012, 11:58:35 AM »
If Kelly was limping,  I'd have stopped my run. And at the very least assumed that I was going to help her back to the car.

She'd have to TELL me to leave her alone.

And even if it hadn't seemed that big of an injury, the part that amazes me is that Stacy was *irritated* at Kelly, instead of worried, when she discovered her friend had left.

And even if it had been minor, I wouldn't have expected my friend to hang around while I finished my 10-mile run.

Yvaine has it right:
Quote
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And that since this is an etiquette site, our priority is determining the etiquette of the situation, not the most efficient way to get a workout. Stacy was rude to leave her rather than help her, rude to lie to the friends, and rude to continue stirring up drama after the fact.

Aeris

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2012, 11:59:44 AM »
From the OP, Kelly never expressed to Stacy that she wanted her to stay (or really that she was seriously hurt).

We do not know what she said! Their dialogue is not in the story at all. She might have said something or she might not have. We can't say with certainty that she didn't express it.

The OP did not say that Kelly asked Stacey to stay.  For me, as I have repeatedly said, that fact would change my approach to the etiquette issue.

And what if Stacey ran off while Kelly was still assessing her injury, before she had a chance to decide whether she needed help or not?

I actually think it's far more important that Stacey ask Kelly directly whether Kelly is alright enough for Stacey to continue the run, than that Kelly make the direct request. Someone who cares about someone else's well being doesn't just assume the injured person is fine, they ask.

It just makes it more heinous that Stacey apparently did not ask her friend whether she minded if she ran ahead or needed help when clearly Kelly had held back her pace in order to stay with Stacey.

I have a number of long distance endurance runner friends, and I can say with confidence that each and every one of them would make sure an injured running partner was definitely okay (by asking directly), and wanted them to run on, before they would leave them. (And possibly not even then.) Each of them knows that that particular run on that particular day, and their own personal endorphin high from it, is not more important than a friend's safety, health, and well-being.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 12:02:22 PM by Aeris »

Calypso

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2012, 12:04:43 PM »


I would not expect a friend to stay with me unless I specifically asked her to. If I asked and she refused, I would be upset.  But if I didn't ask, it would have been for a reason - I didn't want the help or for her to stay. Assuming this is broad daylight, I don't think the "mugging" location makes a difference, especially if other people are around.

 

I don't know where you live, but in Northern California, I've heard way too many stories of runners/walkers getting attacked on trails in broad daylight. The fact that the women didn't feel safe unless they ran as a group is indication that this is that kind of situation.

Mental Magpie

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #43 on: October 11, 2012, 12:06:44 PM »
IMHO, a friend wouldn't need to ask me to stay; they would actually have to tell me to leave.

Stacy's behavior is only made worse by the fact that she lied about it later.  If I kept running because I didn't know my friend was hurt only to find out what happened later, I would be all over myself apologizing.

ETA: a correction, because "earlier" and "later" are different times in this instance.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 12:11:09 PM by Mental Magpie »
The problem with choosing the lesser of two evils is that you're still choosing evil.

lowspark

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #44 on: October 11, 2012, 12:09:44 PM »
So you're with a friend and she missteps and her ankle is so hurt that she cannot continue to run. And you leave her behind? Really?

Wouldn't you at least say, "Are you ok? Are you in pain? Do you need me to help you get back to your car or do you need me to go for help?"

I simply cannot imagine abandoning a friend under these circumstances without at least asking first. I don't think it matters if Kelly asked, what matters is why didn't Stacy ask?

OP said: It immediately started to swell and she was in a lot of pain.
I have a hard time believing Stacy didn't see that.

But regardless, Kelly is not continuing the run due to an injury that occured in front of Stacy. The absolute very least Stacy can do is to make sure Kelly is ok physically AND ok to be left behind if Stacy continues the run.

Anyone who can't do that is not someone I'd want to be friends with.