When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you. UPDATE P17

[Two Ravens]

I would not expect a friend to stay with me unless I specifically asked her to. If I asked and she refused, I would be upset.  But if I didn't ask, it would have been for a reason - I didn't want the help or for her to stay. Assuming this is broad daylight, I don't think the "mugging" location makes a difference, especially if other people are around.

 

I don't know where you live, but in Northern California, I've heard way too many stories of runners/walkers getting attacked on trails in broad daylight. The fact that the women didn't feel safe unless they ran as a group is indication that this is that kind of situation.

Even taking the muggers out of the picture, what if she had stumbled off the trail and hit her head? Or found she was unable to make it back to the car under her own power. I think seeing her safely back to the car is the minimum she should have done.

[NyaChan]

Someone like this is never going to see Kelly's point of view.  Stacey may have initially realized she flubbed it and would look bad for what she did, hence the lie - but at this point, it seems like she has or is trying to rewrite history to reflect the version that makes her look ok.  I know some people who are so determined to not come off badly that they even convince themselves that the version they like is the truth.  Unfortunately, she needs Kelly to cooperate to make this happen and Kelly isn't having it (good for her!), which is why Stacey's trying to act as if nothing happened and that it is Kelly who needs to have some sense talked into her.  The other people involved seem to know what happened, so I would ignore Stacey's attempts and just hold firm.

[Surianne]

Hmm.  I can see both sides on this one.  When I'm injured, I don't like people around asking me about it -- I prefer to deal with the pain on my own.  So if Stacy is like me, I can see not understanding that Kelly would have wanted help.  To me there's a big difference between "limping and too sore to go for the rest of the run" and "so hurt it's an emergency/I need help walking."  The former doesn't necessarily imply the latter.  I'm clumsy so I wind up limping pretty frequently and don't consider it a big issue.  So if Kelly hadn't told me she wanted help, I might very well have continued the run too, not realizing how hurt she was and assuming that she and I had similar attitudes toward injuries. 

[camlan]

I reread the OP's story again and I interpret the bit about Stacey refusing to stay and telling Kelley to hobble back as Kelley asked for help and Stacey said no and told Kelley she could get back on her own.

That was my take on it as well. There had to be some discussion in order for Stacey to "refuse" to stay.

[NyaChan]

I reread the OP's story again and I interpret the bit about Stacey refusing to stay and telling Kelley to hobble back as Kelley asked for help and Stacey said no and told Kelley she could get back on her own.

That was my take on it as well. There had to be some discussion in order for Stacey to "refuse" to stay.

This is how I read it as well. 

[Lorelei_Evil]

I fall a LOT.  I am lucky in that I rarely hurt myself.  This whole scenario outrages me - I'm very happy that people stop and ask if I'm OK when I crash.  When I broke my elbow at a street festival, complete strangers took me to the ER.  Were I with a friend, there would be now way I'd be left even if I said I was OK.  It's just not on.

One thing about my falls is that I may not realize how badly injured I am at first.  Kelly may have just thought she tweaked her ankle a little.  I walked around on a broken foot for days before the pain drove me to seek care once.  It's on me to communicate that I need help and seek it, but it's not a free pass for someone to just take off and leave.   

Do unto others, if you will.  One day that might be you hurt, or someone you care for.

[fountainof]

Whether I would stay or not would be a matter of the situation and what the person wanted.  I would certaily offer though.  However, if told to go ahead I would not lie to the other runners about where Kelly is.  The only motive for that could be selfish as in not wanting the other runners to leave you to go back and see Kelly, I mean why else would you lie?

Then to be upset Kelly left to tend to her injuries just added to the situation, afterall, if I returned and my friend's car was gone I would assume she had to leave and I would call to see if she were okay.  My first instinct wouldn't be to be pissed off.

So overall, I would cool my friendship with Stacey, afterall she is more concerned with how she appears to the two other runners and saving face there than Kelly's feelings or injury.

[ettiquit]

No friend, acquaintance, stranger, or enemy of mine would need to ask me for help if they injure themselves, regardless of what I'm doing.

This less about lack of empathy and more about common decency.

[Jones]

Heck, taking muggers out of the picture, what if she'd collapsed from pain and been attacked by a roaming dog? Or a rabid (insert wildlife here)?

I am not a distance runner yet, though I do power walking and switch to a jog or run for a few minutes at a time, and I see no good coming out of leaving a partner alone away from civilization, badly injured or no. Even if they'd done in-town running and the injury happened in front of someone's house, you make sure your friend is being properly cared for. Stacy's actions just blow me away.

PS--Most of the wildlife parks in my area have bad cell phone reception, I am operating under an assumption here but perhaps it was impossibly for Kelly to call for help.

[TheaterDiva1]

Can we assume Stacy will get her come-uppance once these women know the truth and see her true colors?

[K_Bear]

Only a completely, self centered jerk would leave an injured, even if slightly, runner behind. Even if NOT asked to remain behind, most people would out of common decency. Especially in an out of the way area, where even if the runner thinks she is fine, it is a long way back to the car.

And to act all defensive, and to continue to sway others to her point of view just cements it.

I am glad to have a workout team that cares for each other. And not someone so shallow as to leave a member behind just because their workout is more important.

[bloo]

No friend, acquaintance, stranger, or enemy of mine would need to ask me for help if they injure themselves, regardless of what I'm doing.

This less about lack of empathy and more about common decency.

I agree.

This reminds me of what happened to DH a few years back (gross alert!). He was fishing on a rocky area of a causeway that the state pours concrete on to make the rocks 'safer' for shore fishermen. Well the rocks gave way under my DH and he fell and badly injured his knee. He was crying out in pain and the hanging skin and exposed bone and blood coursing down his leg could plainly be seen. His stepfather, fishing next to him, NEVER stopped casting, except to say, "You gonna be okay?" Due to the dynamics of the relationship (DH knows his step-dad is self-absorbed and really doesn't care about anybody but himself), he clambered up the rocks, got in his car and DROVE himself to the ER (thankful it was his left leg or he would've had to beg for help)!

His mother was disgusted with his step-dad (because I made sure she knew about it) but she knew what kind of person he was.

The best part? His stepfather is a doctor...

[Judah]

Only a completely, self centered jerk would leave an injured, even if slightly, runner behind. Even if NOT asked to remain behind, most people would out of common decency. Especially in an out of the way area, where even if the runner thinks she is fine, it is a long way back to the car.

While I think Stacey was incredibly self-centered and wrong, I don't agree with the statement above.  If my partner and I are in the middle of an important run, one that is crucial to a particular goal or upcoming event, and I hurt myself, as long as I can limp back to the car, there is no way I would want my partner to stop their run to tend to me.  I know how important certain runs are to me, and I wouldn't want to set their training back because of something minor.  I think that all situations are different and that while in this case, Stacey was wrong, she wouldn't be wrong in all cases.

[Moray]

IMHO, a friend wouldn't need to ask me to stay; they would actually have to tell me to leave.

Stacy's behavior is only made worse by the fact that she lied about it later.  If I kept running because I didn't know my friend was hurt only to find out what happened later, I would be all over myself apologizing.

ETA: a correction, because "earlier" and "later" are different times in this instance.

Exactly. Stacy's behavior just doesn't say "friend" to me.

[Surianne]

Only a completely, self centered jerk would leave an injured, even if slightly, runner behind. Even if NOT asked to remain behind, most people would out of common decency. Especially in an out of the way area, where even if the runner thinks she is fine, it is a long way back to the car.

While I think Stacey was incredibly self-centered and wrong, I don't agree with the statement above.  If my partner and I are in the middle of an important run, one that is crucial to a particular goal or upcoming event, and I hurt myself, as long as I can limp back to the car, there is no way I would want my partner to stop their run to tend to me.  I know how important certain runs are to me, and I wouldn't want to set their training back because of something minor.  I think that all situations are different and that while in this case, Stacey was wrong, she wouldn't be wrong in all cases.

I agree.  I would also be very offended and annoyed if I told someone I was fine, and they refused to leave me alone anyway. 

(Speaking to the general concept and K-Bear's post, of course -- I know that isn't what happened with Kelly.)