When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you. UPDATE P17

[bloo]

I think Stacy downplayed kelly's injury to the other ladies because she realized she messed up after she left Kelly.  But i am just speculating.

You know them so you're probably right. Unfortunately Stacy doesn't realize she's seriously impacting her friendship with Kelly by CONTINUING to act so rancid. Grovelling is in order here.

[Twik]

I dunno. I'm a long-distance runner too but for personal pleasure not for marathons. I'd stop my run in a heartbeat if someone needed help. I have actually done that (stopped to help someone move furniture and to use my cell when their car I was running by broke down).

And in this case it simply wasn't possible for Kelly or Stacy to let the other women know right when it happened.

To the bolded, I would too.  What I keep saying, however, is that I did not see that Kelly made it clear to Stacey that she needed help.

I would assume that someone limping, practically unable to walk, and in severe pain makes it clear that they need help, even if they try to pull the "maybe it's not too bad" routine.

[Sterling]

The broad daylight doe not negate the mugging aspect.  Many running trails are secluded and make great places to attack people even during the day.  Leaving someone when local reports TELL you not to run alone at a certain place indicates a level of selfishness that is beyond belief.

[weeblewobble]

I dunno. I'm a long-distance runner too but for personal pleasure not for marathons. I'd stop my run in a heartbeat if someone needed help. I have actually done that (stopped to help someone move furniture and to use my cell when their car I was running by broke down).

And in this case it simply wasn't possible for Kelly or Stacy to let the other women know right when it happened.

To the bolded, I would too.  What I keep saying, however, is that I did not see that Kelly made it clear to Stacey that she needed help.

I think it would be clear when she took a misstep (and possibly fell), probably made a sound of pain, and limped afterward. We don't know the exact dialogue, but I think it would be pretty obvious she was hurt.

And to be honest i don't know the exact dialogue either.

[TootsNYC]

I think Stacy downplayed kelly's injury to the other ladies because she realized she messed up after she left Kelly.  But i am just speculating.

You know them so you're probably right. Unfortunately Stacy doesn't realize she's seriously impacting her friendship with Kelly by CONTINUING to act so rancid. Grovelling is in order here.

Stacy also doesn't realize she's impacting her relationship with the Cool Girls from the office!! And everyone else she complains to.

[wolfie]

I would not expect a friend to stay with me unless I specifically asked her to. If I asked and she refused, I would be upset.  But if I didn't ask, it would have been for a reason - I didn't want the help or for her to stay. Assuming this is broad daylight, I don't think the "mugging" location makes a difference, especially if other people are around.

 

I don't know where you live, but in Northern California, I've heard way too many stories of runners/walkers getting attacked on trails in broad daylight. The fact that the women didn't feel safe unless they ran as a group is indication that this is that kind of situation.

Even taking the muggers out of the picture, what if she had stumbled off the trail and hit her head? Or found she was unable to make it back to the car under her own power. I think seeing her safely back to the car is the minimum she should have done.

which, in fact, she did.

I think I misunderstood what Toots typed. I think she meant that Kelley found she was unable to make it back to the car under her own power. 

[audrey1962]

Kelly is considering a temporary cut direct, but is reluctant because they've been friends for years and this is the first time Stacy has done something like this. Other than ignoring Stacy's phone calls, is there any way Kelly can convince Stacy that she did something wrong and has damaged their friendship?

This is hard to answer as it really depends on Kelly and Stacy. If it were me, I would just give a cut direct and forget about Stacy as I don't need people like that in my life. However, Kelly knows Stacy better than I do, so maybe a face-to-face conversation would help? I think only Kelly can make that decision.

I do think Stacy is social climbing and that the "cool" girls now see her for who she is.

[Yvaine]

I would not expect a friend to stay with me unless I specifically asked her to. If I asked and she refused, I would be upset.  But if I didn't ask, it would have been for a reason - I didn't want the help or for her to stay. Assuming this is broad daylight, I don't think the "mugging" location makes a difference, especially if other people are around.

 

I don't know where you live, but in Northern California, I've heard way too many stories of runners/walkers getting attacked on trails in broad daylight. The fact that the women didn't feel safe unless they ran as a group is indication that this is that kind of situation.

Even taking the muggers out of the picture, what if she had stumbled off the trail and hit her head? Or found she was unable to make it back to the car under her own power. I think seeing her safely back to the car is the minimum she should have done.

which, in fact, she did.

I don't think getting a ride with a park ranger counts for getting back to her car under her own power.

I think you and Two Ravens actually agree. I think TR is saying that she did indeed find herself unable.

[snowdragon]

I am a runner, I am training for a triathlon. I run with a paid personal trainer who is experienced in training people for these events. When she fell on wet grass - I stopped to help her out.  It's called being human.
  Take out the muggings and you still have someone with a visible swelling, who is hobbling and who has a 5 mile walk back to the cars. You don't leave a man behind -ever, but especially under the circumstances described, with or without the muggings.
   Stacy is a real git. And honestly I would have a hard time being friendly towards her again. Whether I was the injured party or one of the two other women.  Stacy's actions after the run say everything that needs being said, no matter what went through her mind at the time.

[Twik]

Kelly is considering a temporary cut direct, but is reluctant because they've been friends for years and this is the first time Stacy has done something like this. Other than ignoring Stacy's phone calls, is there any way Kelly can convince Stacy that she did something wrong and has damaged their friendship?

Since Stacy seems pretty oblivious, to the point of telling the story to other people with the assumption that they'll consider Kelly was wrong, I think the only thing one could do is sit her down, and tell her directly about one's feelings. I don't think subtlety will work here.

[TootsNYC]

Even taking the muggers out of the picture, what if she had stumbled off the trail and hit her head? Or found she was unable to make it back to the car under her own power. I think seeing her safely back to the car is the minimum she should have done.

which, in fact, she did.

I think I misunderstood what Toots typed. I think she meant that Kelley found she was unable to make it back to the car under her own power.

Yes, that is what I meant--that's what I get for being literal.

She did find that she was unable.

Maybe "which, in fact, was the case" would have been clearer. Sorry!

[TurtleDove]

Sorry.  To clarify, Kelly didn't directly ask Stacy, please stay behind and help me.  My impression was she didn't think she would have to after saying she was in a lot of pain. Maybe that was her mistake assuming Stacy would take that as a cue to help.

I think this boils down to how people would want to be treated.  If I were Kelly and were in a lot of pain, I would NOT have wanted Stacey around.  If I physically needed help getting to my car I would have asked for it.  I can see other personalities would react differently, but when I am injured I do NOT want people around me fawning over me, asking me if I need help, demanding to help me out, hovering over me, etc.  I just don't.

I would not have handled this how Stacey did, especially the aftermath, but I don't think it's a hard and fast rule that compassionate empathetic people would force themselves upon someone who does not want help.  If I were Kelly, it would have irritated me if Stacey had fawne over me or insisted she stay with me UNLESS I asked her to.

I was running last week pre-dawn with a friend and running partner.  We were on an 8 mile run.  I tripped and fell HARD.  I thought I had broken my arm (just a deep bruise, and a bruised ego).  My running partner immediately hovered around me and I said this: "Syd, I know you are trying to help but please just leave me alone for a second.  Run ahead and I'll catch up but I need some space right now."  And that is what we did.

[NyaChan]

TurtleDove, Would you have felt irritated if she had just asked you, "Do you need help or should I run on?"

I think that asking that is a basic courtesy.  Now if they persisted after asking that and you had told them you needed no help, then I think they've gone too far.

[TootsNYC]

also, an arm is different from a foot (speaking as someone who wrenched the crap out of her foot/ankle). You have to WALK on a foot.

If you'd injured your foot or ankle to the same degree, would you have sent your running partner on ahead?

And again--you prefer to be left alone, but I betcha a nickel you personally, were you Syd, would not have run off until specifically TOLD to.

And I don't think it boils down to how people prefer. I think the default is that if your companion is injured, you don't leave them until you know that it's OK with them and that they don't, in fact, need help.

Thinking Stacy was wrong doesn't mean I think you personally have to accept help even if you don't WANT to.

Syd did the right thing, waiting until told specifically to carry on. We are all saying that is what STACY should have done. This story really only applies to SYD in your example--not to you.

[ettiquit]

Sorry.  To clarify, Kelly didn't directly ask Stacy, please stay behind and help me.  My impression was she didn't think she would have to after saying she was in a lot of pain. Maybe that was her mistake assuming Stacy would take that as a cue to help.

I think this boils down to how people would want to be treated.  If I were Kelly and were in a lot of pain, I would NOT have wanted Stacey around.  If I physically needed help getting to my car I would have asked for it.  I can see other personalities would react differently, but when I am injured I do NOT want people around me fawning over me, asking me if I need help, demanding to help me out, hovering over me, etc.  I just don't.

I would not have handled this how Stacey did, especially the aftermath, but I don't think it's a hard and fast rule that compassionate empathetic people would force themselves upon someone who does not want help.  If I were Kelly, it would have irritated me if Stacey had fawne over me or insisted she stay with me UNLESS I asked her to.

I was running last week pre-dawn with a friend and running partner.  We were on an 8 mile run.  I tripped and fell HARD.  I thought I had broken my arm (just a deep bruise, and a bruised ego).  My running partner immediately hovered around me and I said this: "Syd, I know you are trying to help but please just leave me alone for a second.  Run ahead and I'll catch up but I need some space right now."  And that is what we did.

I get not wanting to be fawned over - I'm the same way (unless it's my DH doing the fawning for some reason), but if you're physically unable to walk, I'm not leaving you no matter how much you want to be alone.

I also wouldn't leave someone who thought their arm was broken. 

I guess that would be irritating to some, but...safety trumps etiquette, and all that.