Author Topic: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you. UPDATE P17  (Read 26718 times)

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audrey1962

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #90 on: October 11, 2012, 02:20:34 PM »
TurtleDove, it sounds like your situation is different than Kelly's. Weeblewobble said, "she didn't think she would have to [ask Stacy to stay] after saying she was in a lot of pain." You told your running partner to keep running, Kelly told her running partner, "I'm in a lot of pain." Kelly didn't tell her running partner to keep running, but that is what she did.

TurtleDove

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #91 on: October 11, 2012, 02:20:54 PM »
TurtleDove, Would you have felt irritated if she had just asked you, "Do you need help or should I run on?"

I think that asking that is a basic courtesy.  Now if they persisted after asking that and you had told them you needed no help, then I think they've gone too far.

Nope - I always ask someone who is hurt what they prefer and go with whatever they need.  I have ended several runs to help out a friend who needed it, and I have never abandoned someone who said they wanted me to stay.  I have also left running partners who asked me to go ahead when they weren't up for it.  I do what the other person prefers, and I always make sure the other person is okay. 

My initial point was that from the OP it was not clear what the conversation was, but I did not see that Kelly had asked Stacey to stay (and the OP confirmed that Kelly did NOT ask Stacey to stay).  Based on what was in the OP, my comment was that I don't know that the fact Stacey did not insist on staying with Kelly showed a lack of empathy.  I am not the only poster who prefers to handle bruised limbs (and egos) on my own. 

I completely agree the way Stacey handled it afterward is bad - I don't think that is defensible at all.  I just don't know that her initial failure to intuit what Kelly later decided she needed showed a lack of empathy.

audrey1962

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #92 on: October 11, 2012, 02:23:36 PM »
TurtleDove, Would you have felt irritated if she had just asked you, "Do you need help or should I run on?"

I think that asking that is a basic courtesy.  Now if they persisted after asking that and you had told them you needed no help, then I think they've gone too far.

Nope - I always ask someone who is hurt what they prefer and go with whatever they need.  I have ended several runs to help out a friend who needed it, and I have never abandoned someone who said they wanted me to stay.  I have also left running partners who asked me to go ahead when they weren't up for it.  I do what the other person prefers, and I always make sure the other person is okay. 

And what if instead of answering you the other person said, "I don't know, I'm in a lot of pain."

TootsNYC

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #93 on: October 11, 2012, 02:24:10 PM »
Well, I can come to the conclusion that Stacy has an appalling lack of empathy based on her behavior AFTERWARD.

She was *irritated* that the person who'd injured herself wasn't hanging around (an hour later) waiting after the run.

She was *angry* that Kelly is objecting to being left to fend for herself.

I don't need to know anything about the convo at the time of the injury.

And Stacy absolutely did not do what you do: "I always make sure the other person is okay."

TootsNYC

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #94 on: October 11, 2012, 02:25:08 PM »
TurtleDove, Would you have felt irritated if she had just asked you, "Do you need help or should I run on?"

I think that asking that is a basic courtesy.  Now if they persisted after asking that and you had told them you needed no help, then I think they've gone too far.

Nope - I always ask someone who is hurt what they prefer and go with whatever they need.  I have ended several runs to help out a friend who needed it, and I have never abandoned someone who said they wanted me to stay.  I have also left running partners who asked me to go ahead when they weren't up for it.  I do what the other person prefers, and I always make sure the other person is okay. 

And what if instead of answering you the other person said, "I don't know, I'm in a lot of pain."

Based on her own words, I know what TurtleDove would do: She wait until the person DID know.

Her own preferences for HER injury are a total distraction. TurtleDove herself would do what Syd did, and what Stacy did NOT do.

Amara

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #95 on: October 11, 2012, 02:34:28 PM »
I am just appalled at this behavior, and if I were Kelly the cut direct would be immediate and permanent.

The park, as the OP indicated, doesn't feel safe unless the women are in a group. I suspect this means that rapes in addition to muggings have taken place. Therefore, there is NO reason in the world that an injured  partner should be left alone. None. Not only is the injured person left (in this case with a fractured ankle) to make her way back to her car but she is put at risk of great serious personal injury from a crime.

And when you fracture your ankle the injury is immediately obvious. The pain is strong and the ankle does swell immediately. There is no mistaking that.

To me, that Stacy's choice to leave Kelly alone would justify a cut-off. But then to have Stacy run on ahead and lie about Kelly's situation thoroughly unacceptable. And then she even continues to go on about it to others?

No. Just no. Friendship gone forever.

TurtleDove

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #96 on: October 11, 2012, 02:41:33 PM »

And what if instead of answering you the other person said, "I don't know, I'm in a lot of pain."

As I have repeatedly said, I personally would have done whatever the other person asked me to do, and yes I would have asked what I could do to best help them.

My point is not that Stacey handled this well - she didn't. My point was that, based on the initial post, it was not clear to me that Stacey was a horrible unempathetic boor for leaving Kelly - Kelly may have left her with the impression that it what Kelly wanted.  From the OP we did not learn that Kelly asked Stacey to stay and Stacey refused (and that is not what happened anyway, but I digress).  We didn't know what the conversation was, just that there was no mention that Kelly asked Stacey to stay.  As I have said, if I were Kelly, I would have wanted Stacey to run ahead.

Please don't make this about me being somehow Stacey or defending her actions.  That is not at all what I am doing as I think my posts make clear. 

TurtleDove

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #97 on: October 11, 2012, 02:43:04 PM »
Well, I can come to the conclusion that Stacy has an appalling lack of empathy based on her behavior AFTERWARD.

She was *irritated* that the person who'd injured herself wasn't hanging around (an hour later) waiting after the run.

She was *angry* that Kelly is objecting to being left to fend for herself.

I don't need to know anything about the convo at the time of the injury.

And Stacy absolutely did not do what you do: "I always make sure the other person is okay."

I agree with this - my point, again, is that the act of not staying with someone who is injured is not per se a showing of a lack of empathy.

TurtleDove

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #98 on: October 11, 2012, 02:44:02 PM »
Based on her own words, I know what TurtleDove would do: She wait until the person DID know.

Her own preferences for HER injury are a total distraction. TurtleDove herself would do what Syd did, and what Stacy did NOT do.

Thank you.

cicero

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #99 on: October 11, 2012, 02:45:29 PM »
Sorry.  To clarify, Kelly didn't directly ask Stacy, please stay behind and help me.  My impression was she didn't think she would have to after saying she was in a lot of pain. Maybe that was her mistake assuming Stacy would take that as a cue to help.
I think (in hindsight, probably) that Kelly *should* have been explicit. Being a "stiff upper lip" gal myself, I could see myself in kelly's shoes and not *asking* or telling stacy for help.

If it were me? i would probably have waited until i could see Kelly was able to walk on her own and i think that when you are running in a group - then that is what you do. as others have pointed out - you do that when you see strangers in distress on a hike or run, so certainly when you are running with friends.

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Piratelvr1121

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #100 on: October 11, 2012, 02:46:14 PM »
Stacy would get the cut direct from me. I don't run anymore, but I did in high school, and many times our practice meant running in the neighborhoods near the school, or in the park.  We always ran together, no one was to leave another person behind, unless it was to get help. I'm sure Coach D would have given someone like Stacy a hard time if he'd found out they'd done that to a teammate.

I wouldn't want to be around Stacy again, as after this my trust in her would be totally shot, and trust is very important to me. It's not the fact that she left, it's what she did after she left that is the most appalling.
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars.  You have a right to be here. Be cheerful, strive to be happy. -Desiderata

cheyne

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #101 on: October 11, 2012, 02:47:25 PM »
The sum total of Stacey's behavior was appalling, period, end of discussion.  Her friend Kelly of many years was injured enough that the swelling was immediate and Kelly was in pain.  So Stacey decides that being a Wannabee was more important than helping someone who has been her friend for years, lies about it to all and sundry and then hassles Kelly about it?  Really?  I can't see how anyone can justify this behavior.   

Kelly needs to temporarily cut Stacey out as of yesterday.  Kelly should take some time and think about the friendship.  Have there been other times that Stacey has acted in a self-centered way and hurt Kelly (thought probably not this severely).  I find it hard to believe that this is a "one off" situation.  If Kelly comes to realize that Stacey has been this way for a long time-she can make the cut permanent.  Kelly needs some space right now and should take her time making this decision.

Piratelvr1121

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #102 on: October 11, 2012, 02:49:52 PM »
Barring any sort of personality changing disorders, something tells me this isn't the first time Stacy's done this, just the first time it's been so obvious.

Betcha a bunch of red flags will be waving in the rearview mirror of the Hindsightmobile.
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars.  You have a right to be here. Be cheerful, strive to be happy. -Desiderata

Lorelei_Evil

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #103 on: October 11, 2012, 02:51:58 PM »
Based on her own words, I know what TurtleDove would do: She wait until the person DID know.

Her own preferences for HER injury are a total distraction. TurtleDove herself would do what Syd did, and what Stacy did NOT do.

Thank you.

I think you've been quite clear.  One of my responses is: "I'm not sure if I'm hurt, give me a minute to assess everything."  Again, communication.  It's something I had to learn so I could get help when I needed it regardless of the blow to my ego.


Hmmmmm

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #104 on: October 11, 2012, 03:05:15 PM »
TurtleDove, Would you have felt irritated if she had just asked you, "Do you need help or should I run on?"

I think that asking that is a basic courtesy.  Now if they persisted after asking that and you had told them you needed no help, then I think they've gone too far.

Nope - I always ask someone who is hurt what they prefer and go with whatever they need.  I have ended several runs to help out a friend who needed it, and I have never abandoned someone who said they wanted me to stay.  I have also left running partners who asked me to go ahead when they weren't up for it.  I do what the other person prefers, and I always make sure the other person is okay. 

My initial point was that from the OP it was not clear what the conversation was, but I did not see that Kelly had asked Stacey to stay (and the OP confirmed that Kelly did NOT ask Stacey to stay).  Based on what was in the OP, my comment was that I don't know that the fact Stacey did not insist on staying with Kelly showed a lack of empathy.  I am not the only poster who prefers to handle bruised limbs (and egos) on my own. 

I completely agree the way Stacey handled it afterward is bad - I don't think that is defensible at all.  I just don't know that her initial failure to intuit what Kelly later decided she needed showed a lack of empathy.

I think the big difference is the bolded.  You would have asked.  You would not wait for the injured to say "Please stay". 

In the OP, it is not clear to me that Kelly had the opportunity to even ask.  Stacey states "I'm going ahead, just go back to the car."  After stating that, should Kelly have said "No, you must stay with me?"  Honestly, I would have been so astounded by that reaction that I wouldn't have wanted to ask them for assistance. 

Stacey needs to learn that when we do sports with a companion it is not just for socializing, it is for safety.  I can not imagine any of the hikers, kyakers, or cyclist I used to go with ever leaving me behind unless I emphatically stated that I wanted them to go on.  Even then, they would have slowed their pace to make sure I eventually caught up with them. 

"No man left behind"