When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you. UPDATE P17

[WillyNilly]

I took up running for exercise a few years ago.  I was really shy about it.  I would run during off hours or purposely avoid eye contact if I was around others.  It took me a while to build up stamina.  Once I did though I was a bit more confident.  I signed up for a race.  I wasn't in it to win it, just to do my first 5k.  I was intimidated when I got there - everyone looked like a real runner; I felt like an imposter.

And then I started running.  Many passed me even though I started out towards the back, I passed a few.  But I kept going.  And as I ran I noticed runners off tot eh sides.  The first race was a big one - 30,000 people ran it that day.  And I passed twisted ankles, unidentifiable ailments, several pukers - and what struck me, what made me love running - was none of those people were alone.  Every person who pulled off to the sidelines had people stop to make sure they were ok.

Since then I've done lots of 5k's.  I did one this past weekend.  I didn't have time to warm up before hand and it wasn't a timed race.  So about 1/4 mile in I pulled off to the side to stretch.  2 people stopped running "you ok?"  I was, I smiled, I sent them off.  I have had total strangers on the street see me stop, and grasp a pole along the sidewalk as I stretch my calves, and they ask "are you ok?" - they don't see I'm stretching, just that I was running and now I stopped and am holding onto something.

I did a Warrior Dash (a 5k obstacle course) this summer.  There were inspirational signs along the route urging us on.  At least two said "leave no Warrior behind!"  At one obstacle my friend was scared.  It was a rope bridge over pointy rocks.  Her legs were jelly 2k and half a dozen obstacles in.  It was a timed race.  And still a guy behind her braced against the ropes to hold them taut for her.  She inched out.  She started nervously singing to herself "you're the best, around.."  Next thing the guy holding the ropes joined in "nothing is gonna ever keep you down" and then we realized a group of about 8 people were backed up to cross the two rope bridges and they all started singing, loudly "Fight till the end, 'Cause your life will depend, On the strength that you have inside you, Gotta be proud..."  She got across, and she and I both maybe had a little bit of something in our eyes...

I've never competed in team sports.  I liked running because it was just me, no one relying on me (I'm a clutz sometimes, especially under pressure).  Then I started really running and its a team sport of the best kind because every runner is on the same team, together. 

Stacy needs to learn that.

[Outdoor Girl]

^  I seem to have a little something in my eye, too.

[snowdragon]

mine too. What niece people

[doodlemor]

Stacy's behavior is thoroughly reprehensible.  How very just that she is the one telling people about the incident.  In complaining about Kelly she is letting everyone know exactly what kind of a person she herself is.

Kelly should give her the cut direct, probably forever.  It seems to me that someone whose thinking is that *off* is never going to understand how egregious her behavior was, and apparently still is.

I have done the training thing, and have also had a broken ankle twice.  Broken bones can make a person lightheaded and woozy.  No one should be left alone on the trail when they are injured, especially if there is the possibility of a broken bone.

The what if's in this case are scary. 

Kelly needs a lot of support and encouragement right now, aside from the whole nonsense with Stacy.  It is very depressing to be confined with a broken bone, especially if one has been very active.

[gypsy77]

Sorry.  To clarify, Kelly didn't directly ask Stacy, please stay behind and help me.  My impression was she didn't think she would have to after saying she was in a lot of pain. Maybe that was her mistake assuming Stacy would take that as a cue to help.

I think this boils down to how people would want to be treated.  If I were Kelly and were in a lot of pain, I would NOT have wanted Stacey around.  If I physically needed help getting to my car I would have asked for it.  I can see other personalities would react differently, but when I am injured I do NOT want people around me fawning over me, asking me if I need help, demanding to help me out, hovering over me, etc.  I just don't.

I would not have handled this how Stacey did, especially the aftermath, but I don't think it's a hard and fast rule that compassionate empathetic people would force themselves upon someone who does not want help.  If I were Kelly, it would have irritated me if Stacey had fawne over me or insisted she stay with me UNLESS I asked her to.

I was running last week pre-dawn with a friend and running partner.  We were on an 8 mile run.  I tripped and fell HARD.  I thought I had broken my arm (just a deep bruise, and a bruised ego).  My running partner immediately hovered around me and I said this: "Syd, I know you are trying to help but please just leave me alone for a second.  Run ahead and I'll catch up but I need some space right now."  And that is what we did.

I also think that Stacey's later behavior rules out that she was using that thought process. If she had, she would not have lied to the other runners, because she would have expected them to see it the same way. I also get the impression from Weeble, that had Stacey's later statements to Kelly been along the lines of "I didn't occur to me, because when I am sick/injured, I don't like having help", that Kelly would not be considering a cut direct.

[CrazyDaffodilLady]

. . .it's not advisable for people to run alone.  The other women pulled ahead because Stacy was having trouble with the pace.  Kelly stayed with her.

The only reason Stacy wasn't running alone was because Kelly stayed with her out of kindness and concern for safety.  Stacy repaid this by abandoning Kelly when she was injured.  I can't imagine that Kelly, the cool girls, or anyone else would want Stacy as a running partner in the future. 

Without a huge admission of bad behavior and a grovelling apology from Stacy, her behavior would be a friendship breaker for me.  She's shown that she'll throw you under a bus for very petty reasons.

[still in va]

Stacy continues to tell everybody who will listen that this wasn't her fault and Kelly has no right to be angry with her.  She's tried to brazen her way through Kelly being mad at her by just pretending that the incident never happened and Kelly isn't mad.  Kelly is having no part of it.   Stacy's even calling Eric to try to get him to "talk some sense" into Kelly. 

Kelly is considering a temporary cut direct, but is reluctant because they've been friends for years and this is the first time Stacy has done something like this. Other than ignoring Stacy's phone calls, is there any way Kelly can convince Stacy that she did something wrong and has damaged their friendship?

as to what i would do now, in Kelly's place, would be for Eric to tell Stacy, the next time she calls, that Stacy needs to leave Kelly alone until Kelly is ready to talk to her.  he can assure Stacy that Kelly will call when she is ready.  if Kelly is never "ready" to talk to Stacy, she will be adhering to what her husband told Stacy.  i'd also block Stacy's phone number and e-mail address, at least temporarily, until i was ready to talk to her.  badgering me will get you exactly the opposite results of what you are seeking.

personally, i'd not be ready for a good long time.  i suspect that Stacy is realllllly nervous here, and feeling very alone.  she's damaged her friendship with Kelly, and the two "cool kids" from the office are probably not including her anymore, now that she has shown them a side of her personality that they don't care for.  oh well. 

weeblewobble, i didn't see (or i forgot) how long ago this happened.  how long has this been going on?

[Surianne]

Sorry.  To clarify, Kelly didn't directly ask Stacy, please stay behind and help me.  My impression was she didn't think she would have to after saying she was in a lot of pain. Maybe that was her mistake assuming Stacy would take that as a cue to help.

I think this boils down to how people would want to be treated.  If I were Kelly and were in a lot of pain, I would NOT have wanted Stacey around.  If I physically needed help getting to my car I would have asked for it.  I can see other personalities would react differently, but when I am injured I do NOT want people around me fawning over me, asking me if I need help, demanding to help me out, hovering over me, etc.  I just don't.

I would not have handled this how Stacey did, especially the aftermath, but I don't think it's a hard and fast rule that compassionate empathetic people would force themselves upon someone who does not want help.  If I were Kelly, it would have irritated me if Stacey had fawne over me or insisted she stay with me UNLESS I asked her to.

Yes, that's where I'm coming from too.  I agree that Stacey wasn't correct here (at all), but I disagree with some of the statements in the thread about how caring, empathetic people would *always* stick around even if they weren't asked (or were asked not to) -- because to me personally, that would actually be something I'd dislike quite a bit. 

[weeblewobble]

I did a Warrior Dash (a 5k obstacle course) this summer.  There were inspirational signs along the route urging us on.  At least two said "leave no Warrior behind!"  At one obstacle my friend was scared.  It was a rope bridge over pointy rocks.  Her legs were jelly 2k and half a dozen obstacles in.  It was a timed race.  And still a guy behind her braced against the ropes to hold them taut for her.  She inched out.  She started nervously singing to herself "you're the best, around.."  Next thing the guy holding the ropes joined in "nothing is gonna ever keep you down" and then we realized a group of about 8 people were backed up to cross the two rope bridges and they all started singing, loudly "Fight till the end, 'Cause your life will depend, On the strength that you have inside you, Gotta be proud..."  She got across, and she and I both maybe had a little bit of something in our eyes...

I want that to be a Nike commercial.

[weeblewobble]

Stacy continues to tell everybody who will listen that this wasn't her fault and Kelly has no right to be angry with her.  She's tried to brazen her way through Kelly being mad at her by just pretending that the incident never happened and Kelly isn't mad.  Kelly is having no part of it.   Stacy's even calling Eric to try to get him to "talk some sense" into Kelly. 

Kelly is considering a temporary cut direct, but is reluctant because they've been friends for years and this is the first time Stacy has done something like this. Other than ignoring Stacy's phone calls, is there any way Kelly can convince Stacy that she did something wrong and has damaged their friendship?

as to what i would do now, in Kelly's place, would be for Eric to tell Stacy, the next time she calls, that Stacy needs to leave Kelly alone until Kelly is ready to talk to her.  he can assure Stacy that Kelly will call when she is ready.  if Kelly is never "ready" to talk to Stacy, she will be adhering to what her husband told Stacy.  i'd also block Stacy's phone number and e-mail address, at least temporarily, until i was ready to talk to her.  badgering me will get you exactly the opposite results of what you are seeking.

personally, i'd not be ready for a good long time.  i suspect that Stacy is realllllly nervous here, and feeling very alone.  she's damaged her friendship with Kelly, and the two "cool kids" from the office are probably not including her anymore, now that she has shown them a side of her personality that they don't care for.  oh well. 

weeblewobble, i didn't see (or i forgot) how long ago this happened.  how long has this been going on?

Just a few days.  The incident was only last week.

[stargazer]

I would absolutely stick around - you NEED your ankle to be able to walk.  I personally think everyone should, mainly because I know when I shattered my ankle, I was in complete shock and tried to walk on it again (which probably caused the third break in the middle).  If the ankle is swollen, I cannot imagine anyone "going on" regardless of what the injured person says (and it doesn't sound like Kelly asked her to go on in any case).   Stacey is a jerk for all her actions.

[Carpathia]

I'm a runner too, and I do see what TurtleDove means - I would hate to have a running partner stop their run because I couldn't carry on UNLESS I was too injured to make it back under my own steam in which case I'd have to accept their help.

However, I know of absolutely nobody who would have run on in that particular situation unless Kelly herself had explicitly said 'I'm OK, go ahead'. I'm with the PPs who said that it's up to Stacy to make sure she has been given the go-ahead to carry on before leaving. I don't think that Stacy can assume she's good to go unless Kelly specifically asks her.

As for Stacy's behaviour afterwards - dreadful. If I had been in that situation I'd have tried to catch up with the others, explained what had happened and we'd probably have turned around and run back to make sure Kelly wasn't collapsed in agony. We'd still have got the 10 mile run, and we'd have set our minds at rest about a friend.

I would advise Kelly that she's not overreacting and that she can contact Stacy if and when she feels like it, maybe never. I'd certainly not consider it until Stacy stopped telling my friends and family that I needed to accept she did nothing wrong!

[Harriet Jones]

Even if leaving Kelly behind was an "honest mistake", Stacy's subsequent behavior is *appalling*.

[Mental Magpie]

Sorry.  To clarify, Kelly didn't directly ask Stacy, please stay behind and help me.  My impression was she didn't think she would have to after saying she was in a lot of pain. Maybe that was her mistake assuming Stacy would take that as a cue to help.

I think this boils down to how people would want to be treated.  If I were Kelly and were in a lot of pain, I would NOT have wanted Stacey around.  If I physically needed help getting to my car I would have asked for it.  I can see other personalities would react differently, but when I am injured I do NOT want people around me fawning over me, asking me if I need help, demanding to help me out, hovering over me, etc.  I just don't.

I would not have handled this how Stacey did, especially the aftermath, but I don't think it's a hard and fast rule that compassionate empathetic people would force themselves upon someone who does not want help.  If I were Kelly, it would have irritated me if Stacey had fawne over me or insisted she stay with me UNLESS I asked her to.

Yes, that's where I'm coming from too.  I agree that Stacey wasn't correct here (at all), but I disagree with some of the statements in the thread about how caring, empathetic people would *always* stick around even if they weren't asked (or were asked not to) -- because to me personally, that would actually be something I'd dislike quite a bit.

I don't think it's because we think Stacy should have stuck around no matter what, it's that she apparently did even ask if she should!  Sure, Kelly didn't say, "Stay!", but Stacy didn't ask if she should stay, and that's what a lot of us are having a problem with.

[weeblewobble]

Sorry.  To clarify, Kelly didn't directly ask Stacy, please stay behind and help me.  My impression was she didn't think she would have to after saying she was in a lot of pain. Maybe that was her mistake assuming Stacy would take that as a cue to help.

I think this boils down to how people would want to be treated.  If I were Kelly and were in a lot of pain, I would NOT have wanted Stacey around.  If I physically needed help getting to my car I would have asked for it.  I can see other personalities would react differently, but when I am injured I do NOT want people around me fawning over me, asking me if I need help, demanding to help me out, hovering over me, etc.  I just don't.

I would not have handled this how Stacey did, especially the aftermath, but I don't think it's a hard and fast rule that compassionate empathetic people would force themselves upon someone who does not want help.  If I were Kelly, it would have irritated me if Stacey had fawne over me or insisted she stay with me UNLESS I asked her to.

I was running last week pre-dawn with a friend and running partner.  We were on an 8 mile run.  I tripped and fell HARD.  I thought I had broken my arm (just a deep bruise, and a bruised ego).  My running partner immediately hovered around me and I said this: "Syd, I know you are trying to help but please just leave me alone for a second.  Run ahead and I'll catch up but I need some space right now."  And that is what we did.

I also think that Stacey's later behavior rules out that she was using that thought process. If she had, she would not have lied to the other runners, because she would have expected them to see it the same way. I also get the impression from Weeble, that had Stacey's later statements to Kelly been along the lines of "I didn't occur to me, because when I am sick/injured, I don't like having help", that Kelly would not be considering a cut direct.

Yes, the impression I got was that Kelly was far more hurt by Stacy's post-run behavior than just the "leaving her alone" bit.  Her later actions seem more along the lines of, "How dare you complain about me.  My actions are justified no matter what you say." instead of "Wow, I was unaware the situation was so serious." 

Like I said, the other ladies seemed really appalled by her actions, so I doubt her intention to get in good with the "cool girls" worked out like she hoped.  I will update if I hear any more.