Author Topic: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you. UPDATE P17  (Read 29746 times)

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Surianne

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #120 on: October 11, 2012, 04:59:58 PM »
I don't think it's because we think Stacy should have stuck around no matter what, it's that she apparently did even ask if she should!  Sure, Kelly didn't say, "Stay!", but Stacy didn't ask if she should stay, and that's what a lot of us are having a problem with.

I can definitely see what you mean there and I don't find that point of view unreasonable at all.  There were a few posters (I don't think you were one) who had implied that the only kind thing to do would be to stick around no matter what, even if Kelly didn't ask for help, and even if she said to go on without her.  That's where I really disagree.  So it's more a hypothetical than based on the OP's specific situation.

(I hope that made sense...I'm running to a meeting or I would quote people specifically and explain myself a little more clearly!)

Carpathia

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #121 on: October 11, 2012, 05:04:56 PM »
Yeah, if I'd been one of the other ladies, and Stacy had caught up and said that Kelly just wasn't feeling up for it today and had gone back, and I'd then subsequently discovered that actually Stacy had left her injured (whether or not Kelly had told her to go on, I would have been shocked at the lie) I would really be questioning any further contact with that person.

I wonder if Stacy thought that if she told the other two Kelly was hurt but OK, they'd have insisted on going back for her anyway and Kelly would then get the attention and sympathy of the two women Stacy desperately wanted for herself.

Mental Magpie

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #122 on: October 11, 2012, 05:06:17 PM »
I don't think it's because we think Stacy should have stuck around no matter what, it's that she apparently did even ask if she should!  Sure, Kelly didn't say, "Stay!", but Stacy didn't ask if she should stay, and that's what a lot of us are having a problem with.

I can definitely see what you mean there and I don't find that point of view unreasonable at all.  There were a few posters (I don't think you were one) who had implied that the only kind thing to do would be to stick around no matter what, even if Kelly didn't ask for help, and even if she said to go on without her.  That's where I really disagree.  So it's more a hypothetical than based on the OP's specific situation.

(I hope that made sense...I'm running to a meeting or I would quote people specifically and explain myself a little more clearly!)

It makes sense, and I agree.  I would be really upset if someone insisted on sticking around after I explicitly told them to leave.
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TootsNYC

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #123 on: October 11, 2012, 05:23:53 PM »
Stacy's behavior is thoroughly reprehensible.  How very just that she is the one telling people about the incident.  In complaining about Kelly she is letting everyone know exactly what kind of a person she herself is.


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O'Dell

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #124 on: October 11, 2012, 05:37:46 PM »
I don't think it's because we think Stacy should have stuck around no matter what, it's that she apparently did even ask if she should!  Sure, Kelly didn't say, "Stay!", but Stacy didn't ask if she should stay, and that's what a lot of us are having a problem with.

I can definitely see what you mean there and I don't find that point of view unreasonable at all.  There were a few posters (I don't think you were one) who had implied that the only kind thing to do would be to stick around no matter what, even if Kelly didn't ask for help, and even if she said to go on without her.  That's where I really disagree.  So it's more a hypothetical than based on the OP's specific situation.

(I hope that made sense...I'm running to a meeting or I would quote people specifically and explain myself a little more clearly!)

It makes sense, and I agree.  I would be really upset if someone insisted on sticking around after I explicitly told them to leave.

There are times though when the injured person isn't the best judge of what help they need and a bystander should insist on staying. Not always, but certainly if someone were seriously injured, such as Kelly who was unable to walk back to her car under her own power, someone should have stayed to help her.

Others have said that they dont' want help. I'm like that. In the first few minutes after an injury, I instinctively brush off any assistance. So on a gut level, I get where you are coming from. But I also *know* that a blanket statement of not helping someone if they insist you go ahead and leave can be a dangerous one.

I think Stacy knows darn good and well that she was in the wrong and seriously messed up. Shame is what is pushing her to be so vocal in justifying her unjustifiable behavior. I suspect she badly wants someone to comfort her. Others just aren't buying it. Her leaving was one thing...it could have been a momentary lapse of judgment and many could forgive it. It's her immature reaction to having made a mistake that reflects so very badly on her.
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Darcy

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #125 on: October 11, 2012, 05:38:23 PM »
Stacy's digging her own grave. Kelly may not have to do cut direct for herself anyway - most people are going to find it reprehensible that Stacy abandoned an injured friend, and will probably ice her out.

2doglady

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #126 on: October 11, 2012, 05:47:14 PM »
I can understand that some people would want to be left alone and send Stacy on her way.  My concern would be that shock could set in and more complications could arise.  I didn't see any post mentioning shock so I thought I would bring it up.
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Thipu1

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #127 on: October 11, 2012, 06:10:17 PM »
What Stacy did was completely wrong on so many levels. 

Kelly was the better runner and slowed her pace to be with Stacy.  When Kelly got injured, Stacy just said, 'See ya back at the cars'.

I'm sorry but you just don't do this. 

Back in the 1970s I was part of a club that gave lessons in race-walking.  We trainers were competing on at least a state level.  Some of us were national class but everyone with whom we worked was a member of the group and were considered as such. We had a rule that no one was to be left behind no matter how slow that person was.  It wasn't unusual for someone who placed third in the National 20K championships to stay behind with someone who was doing his first mile. 

This isn't a question of etiquette.  As others have said, it's a question of common humanity. 

Stacy erred in so many ways.  Kelly was helping her but she abandoned someone who was not only
a running companion but a friend when Kelly became injured.  Stacy made no attempt to get help but just ran off.  She later lied about the incident and thought Kelly was the one who should apologize.

Excuse me, but Stacy is not someone whom I would ever trust in any way again. Her behavior was execrable.     


Allyson

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #128 on: October 11, 2012, 08:38:07 PM »
I'm a huge underreacter. Particularly when it comes to my own injuries and illnesses, but also sometimes when it comes to other people's. I could see Stacy's original actions as not being reprehensible. Not morally awesome, but morally neutral, or mistaken. I could see me thinking 'oh, she twisted her ankle, no big deal'. It wouldn't be the right call, but it could be unmalicious and her thinking 'well, if I had done that I'd want my friend to go on, I don't like having people around me when I'm hurt...' To someone like me 'I'm in a lot of pain' does not necessarily mean 'Please stay with me.'

But, Stacy's actions afterwards? No, just no. If it were me who had made that mistake, I would be falling all over myself apologizing. I sure would not be minimizing it!

Yankeegal77

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #129 on: October 11, 2012, 08:51:07 PM »
I think Kelly should look at this as a blessing in disguise to see her "friend"'s character.

Completely, utterly unacceptable. Competitive training or not, effective workout or not, leaving a friend in pain, with a swollen ankle in a wooded area where *muggings* occur and it isn't safe is a violation of just about every ethic I hold dear.

And sorry to those who have said they can understand Stacy's motivation--Stacy was there to hang out with the "cool kids."

As far as I can see, the list of abominably rude behavior is as follows:

1. Essentially using Kelly to hang out with the other two women
2. Growing more distant from Kelly despite the premise of wanting to share in her sport
3. LEAVING HER BEHIND IN A DANGEROUS AREA WHILE INJURED
4. Lying about number four
5. What I see as harassment--asking Eric to "talk sense" into Kelly
6. Besmirching Kelly's reputation with her "side" of the story

No matter how long the friendship, Kelly is within her rights to say good riddance to bad rubbish.

artk2002

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #130 on: October 11, 2012, 09:28:38 PM »
Kelly failing to say some particular magic phrase doesn't let Stacy off of the hook.
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KenveeB

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #131 on: October 11, 2012, 09:59:28 PM »
Yes, that's where I'm coming from too.  I agree that Stacey wasn't correct here (at all), but I disagree with some of the statements in the thread about how caring, empathetic people would *always* stick around even if they weren't asked (or were asked not to) -- because to me personally, that would actually be something I'd dislike quite a bit.

Most of the statements I've seen have been that any caring, empathetic, decent human being would stay being until they know the other person is okay or specifically told to go ahead. Once the person says, "I'm fine, run on ahead," then you're clear. Until then, a decent person would stick around.

A person's thought processes can be shown through their later actions. If Stacey had really thought "she's not really hurt" or "she wouldn't want me to stay," then she would have actually said that later instead of lying to the other two women about what happened and daring to be mad at Kelly for not waiting at the cars. So the rest of the discussion is really academic -- maybe there are situations where it would be okay, or at least an understandable mistake, but it definitely wasn't here. Kelly needs to give Stacey the cut direct, and I think she'll be better off for it!

LifeOnPluto

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #132 on: October 11, 2012, 10:31:26 PM »
Slightly off-topic, but why did Stacy "need" Kelly to get closer to the two other women? Why couldn't Stacy have just made friends with them herself, without involving Kelly?

Back on topic, I agree with the majority that Stacy should ideally have stuck around to make sure Kelly was safe. At the very least, she should NOT be telling lies about Kelly and asking her to apologise!

As for how Kelly should proceed, it depends. If this was very out-of-character for Stacy, I'd sit her down and say "What's going on? We've been friends for a long time. I know this isn't like you."

Mental Magpie

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #133 on: October 11, 2012, 10:59:05 PM »
Slightly off-topic, but why did Stacy "need" Kelly to get closer to the two other women? Why couldn't Stacy have just made friends with them herself, without involving Kelly?

Back on topic, I agree with the majority that Stacy should ideally have stuck around to make sure Kelly was safe. At the very least, she should NOT be telling lies about Kelly and asking her to apologise!

As for how Kelly should proceed, it depends. If this was very out-of-character for Stacy, I'd sit her down and say "What's going on? We've been friends for a long time. I know this isn't like you."

I'm going to guess it is because Kelly is a stronger runner than Stacy.  Stacy's lack of ability was made up by Kelly's ability in running because Stacy knew she wasn't quite on par with the other woman but that Kelly was and thus could get Stacy in with them.
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Harriet Jones

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #134 on: October 11, 2012, 11:01:03 PM »
Sounds like Stacy needed Kelly for training purposes, or maybe as a way to get it with the "cool kids" without seeming too desperate.