Author Topic: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you. UPDATE P17  (Read 26519 times)

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GrammarNerd

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #150 on: October 12, 2012, 11:13:25 AM »
When I was 16, we were at a party at my Aunt and Uncle's house.  I took my roller skates and was skating on the sidewalk in front of the house while everyone else except a 14-15 year old cousin was in the back yard.  I fell while going backwards and really hurt my wrist when I landed.  I moved to the grass and laid down because I immediately felt nauseaus.  Cousin saw the whole thing.  She asked me, "Are you okay?" as I'm lying down on the grass, trying to deep breathe and am holding my arm gingerly.  I said something like, 'no, I don't think so' in between deep breaths.  It was obvious I was in pain. 

And then while I'm trying to get past the pain and not hurl from the nausea, Cousin says cheerily, 'Okay.  Well, if you need anything, I'll be in the back yard.'  And she left me!

Now, mind you, I was on roller skates.  They roll and I'd just hurt my arm but good in that nasty fall and didn't even want to try to use that arm.  The wrist was already swelling, these really two weird-looking bumps that looked like there was a pencil under my skin and was pushing outward.  Luckily, somehow I made it to the back yard in my skates without causing further damage to myself to find that cousin hadn't even told anyone that I'd fallen and was hurt!

As irony would have it, Cousin's mother was a nurse and splinted my arm with a few rolled up magazines.  I went to the ER and sure enough, I had a hairline fracture of one of the main arm bones right at the tip. 

I think I did say something to Cousin later, in a joking type of way, about her leaving me.  She got jokingly indignant.  I don't exactly remember her rationale...she was a kid or didn't think it was that bad or something.  But still, I'd SAID that I wasn't okay.  Duh.  At least go get help!  It ain't rocket science.

It's obvious now that Stacy was only using Kelly to get in good with the cool girls.  And even though Kelly had nicely stayed behind with her when SHE (Stacy) was the problem and couldn't keep up, Stacy showed her true colors when she could only think about catching up with the other two women, LIED to them, and then tried to justify any of her actions by bad-mouthing Kelly and her injury.

I would say a cut-direct would be a generously nice treatment of Stacy at this point.  Why would Kelly want to hang around with someone who couldn't even show a modicum of concern for her for what was obviously a serious injury?

OP, do you know if the 'cool girls' said anything to Stacy or are still hanging out with her?  And please tell me that Kelly's husband laid into Stacy really good for her callousness.

I don't think some public shunning would be out of line here.  Stacy's behavior, given the circumstances and situation, were simply reprehensible.

TurtleDove

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #151 on: October 12, 2012, 11:27:32 AM »
Why would Kelly want to hang around with someone who couldn't even show a modicum of concern for her for what was obviously a serious injury?

I am in no way defending Stacey or your cousin.  I do want to point out that I don't think one can say the bolded necessarily.  Not even Kelly knew this was obviously a serious injury at that time.  Stacey should have handled it differently, but I do not see that she actively knew that Kelly was seriously injured and left.  She should have waited to find out, but I don't think it's fair to assume she thought, "Wow, Kelly is really hurt!  I'm going to leave."  She probably thought, "Kelly fell but it doesn't seem like a big deal - I'm going to keep going - she didn't say anything asking me not to."

As I think about this, I can't think of a time when I was a the weaker runner in recent history, but I would not have wanted Kelly to stay back with me if I were Stacey either.  I just don't like to inconvenience other people like that.  And yes, even in a "bad neighborhood."  (Although, again, if it was that bad, I wouldn't be running there even with a partner).

GrammarNerd

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #152 on: October 12, 2012, 11:46:23 AM »
Why would Kelly want to hang around with someone who couldn't even show a modicum of concern for her for what was obviously a serious injury?

I am in no way defending Stacey or your cousin.  I do want to point out that I don't think one can say the bolded necessarily.  Not even Kelly knew this was obviously a serious injury at that time.  Stacey should have handled it differently, but I do not see that she actively knew that Kelly was seriously injured and left.  She should have waited to find out, but I don't think it's fair to assume she thought, "Wow, Kelly is really hurt!  I'm going to leave."  She probably thought, "Kelly fell but it doesn't seem like a big deal - I'm going to keep going - she didn't say anything asking me not to."

As I think about this, I can't think of a time when I was a the weaker runner in recent history, but I would not have wanted Kelly to stay back with me if I were Stacey either.  I just don't like to inconvenience other people like that.  And yes, even in a "bad neighborhood."  (Although, again, if it was that bad, I wouldn't be running there even with a partner).

To clarify my point: OP said the ankle/foot was swelling.  In my personal experience, if something swells that quickly, there is something wrong.  Seriously wrong.  I rolled my ankle somewhat recently.  The swelling started almost immediately.  I didn't break any bones, but I did tear a ligament.  My wrist was the same way.  Perhaps not everyone's serious injuries swell, but Kelly's did.  So that was a very blatant indication that all was not right.

stargazer

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #153 on: October 12, 2012, 11:48:15 AM »
Why would Kelly want to hang around with someone who couldn't even show a modicum of concern for her for what was obviously a serious injury?

I am in no way defending Stacey or your cousin.  I do want to point out that I don't think one can say the bolded necessarily.  Not even Kelly knew this was obviously a serious injury at that time.  Stacey should have handled it differently, but I do not see that she actively knew that Kelly was seriously injured and left.  She should have waited to find out, but I don't think it's fair to assume she thought, "Wow, Kelly is really hurt!  I'm going to leave."  She probably thought, "Kelly fell but it doesn't seem like a big deal - I'm going to keep going - she didn't say anything asking me not to."

As I think about this, I can't think of a time when I was a the weaker runner in recent history, but I would not have wanted Kelly to stay back with me if I were Stacey either.  I just don't like to inconvenience other people like that.  And yes, even in a "bad neighborhood."  (Although, again, if it was that bad, I wouldn't be running there even with a partner).

To clarify my point: OP said the ankle/foot was swelling.  In my personal experience, if something swells that quickly, there is something wrong.  Seriously wrong.  I rolled my ankle somewhat recently.  The swelling started almost immediately.  I didn't break any bones, but I did tear a ligament.  My wrist was the same way.  Perhaps not everyone's serious injuries swell, but Kelly's did.  So that was a very blatant indication that all was not right.

The OP also said: Sorry.  To clarify, Kelly didn't directly ask Stacy, please stay behind and help me.  My impression was she didn't think she would have to after saying she was in a lot of pain. Maybe that was her mistake assuming Stacy would take that as a cue to help.   So I would consider that a serious injury if someone I knew said they were in a lot of pain. 

Mental Magpie

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #154 on: October 12, 2012, 11:50:31 AM »
For those who would wave off any help because they don't like being fawned or fussed over, if you were injured in such a way that you couldn't or could barely walk, you'd prefer to hobble or crawl the five miles through a known to be unsafe alone area just to avoid the help?

Spotted Pony

No, I would ask for help.  Just because I don't like people fawning over me doesn't mean I'm irrational and can't assess the seriousness of a situation in order to ask for help.
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TurtleDove

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #155 on: October 12, 2012, 11:52:24 AM »
To clarify my point: OP said the ankle/foot was swelling.  In my personal experience, if something swells that quickly, there is something wrong.  Seriously wrong.  I rolled my ankle somewhat recently.  The swelling started almost immediately.  I didn't break any bones, but I did tear a ligament.  My wrist was the same way.  Perhaps not everyone's serious injuries swell, but Kelly's did.  So that was a very blatant indication that all was not right.

I think experiences can differ.  I do a lot of races, including Tough Mudder type obstacle ones.  This summer I did a 10K obstacle race on a team of 6.  About halfway through, a woman on my team came over a wall and landed funny.  I happened to turn and see she was not getting up so I shouted to the team to wait up and ran back to get her.  We all waited while her ankle swelled, but she walked on it a bit and decided to keep going.  We all crossed the finish line together, and her swollen ankle was sore but not a serious injury (at least not in her opinion).  I'm just saying people and experiences do differ and what is "obvious" to some is not obvious to others.  Also, some people are far more cautious than others.

stargazer

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #156 on: October 12, 2012, 12:03:48 PM »
To clarify my point: OP said the ankle/foot was swelling.  In my personal experience, if something swells that quickly, there is something wrong.  Seriously wrong.  I rolled my ankle somewhat recently.  The swelling started almost immediately.  I didn't break any bones, but I did tear a ligament.  My wrist was the same way.  Perhaps not everyone's serious injuries swell, but Kelly's did.  So that was a very blatant indication that all was not right.

I think experiences can differ.  I do a lot of races, including Tough Mudder type obstacle ones.  This summer I did a 10K obstacle race on a team of 6.  About halfway through, a woman on my team came over a wall and landed funny.  I happened to turn and see she was not getting up so I shouted to the team to wait up and ran back to get her.  We all waited while her ankle swelled, but she walked on it a bit and decided to keep going.  We all crossed the finish line together, and her swollen ankle was sore but not a serious injury (at least not in her opinion).  I'm just saying people and experiences do differ and what is "obvious" to some is not obvious to others.  Also, some people are far more cautious than others.

Again, Kelly SAID she was in a lot of pain and she was not able to walk.  Per the original OP:  Eric's wife, Kelly, is not a drama queen.  She doesn't play up illnesses or injuries.  When she says she's hurt, she's hurt.    So I would assume Stacey, being a supposed friend, would also know that. 

TheaterDiva1

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #157 on: October 12, 2012, 12:53:08 PM »
She probably thought, "Kelly fell but it doesn't seem like a big deal - I'm going to keep going - she didn't say anything asking me not to."

Then why didn't she say so after?  If she really thought Kelly wasn't that badly hurt and found out later how bad it was, the appropriate reaction is "I'm so sorry... I honestly didn't realize you were hurt that bad.  Is there anything I can do you you?"  Then it would be chalked up to momentary cluelessness and be done with.  By deliberately lying and justifying herself after the fact, Stacy knew she was in the wrong and didn't care.

And those of you saying they'd leave if someone said they were okay - don't be so sure.  Trauma is usually followed by an adrenaline rush where the person feels no pain, but it wears off.  Often, for example, someone will walk away from a car accident thinking they're fine only to experience neck pain hours later - they had whiplash and needed to be checked out, but they didn't know.

Mental Magpie

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #158 on: October 12, 2012, 12:56:04 PM »
She probably thought, "Kelly fell but it doesn't seem like a big deal - I'm going to keep going - she didn't say anything asking me not to."

Then why didn't she say so after?  If she really thought Kelly wasn't that badly hurt and found out later how bad it was, the appropriate reaction is "I'm so sorry... I honestly didn't realize you were hurt that bad.  Is there anything I can do you you?"  Then it would be chalked up to momentary cluelessness and be done with.  By deliberately lying and justifying herself after the fact, Stacy knew she was in the wrong and didn't care.

And those of you saying they'd leave if someone said they were okay - don't be so sure.  Trauma is usually followed by an adrenaline rush where the person feels no pain, but it wears off.  Often, for example, someone will walk away from a car accident thinking they're fine only to experience neck pain hours later - they had whiplash and needed to be checked out, but they didn't know.

My guess is Stacy didn't say so later because she knew she was wrong and didn't want to be caught having been wrong, so she lied.  Simple as that: she wanted to look good in front of the cool kids.

For those of us saying we'd leave if someone said they were okay, please don't think we're naive and can't ever recognize true trauma.  We're talking about sprained ankles here, not car wrecks.  If I saw a bone sticking out of someone's leg and she told me to keep going, I wouldn't; I'm not completely unaware of severe injury.
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bloo

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #159 on: October 12, 2012, 01:14:49 PM »
This seems to be the major concern for the OP and Kelly:

"Kelly is considering a temporary cut direct, but is reluctant because they've been friends for years and this is the first time Stacy has done something like this. Other than ignoring Stacy's phone calls, is there any way Kelly can convince Stacy that she did something wrong and has damaged their friendship?"

From what I've read in the thread, all pp's seem to be in agreement about Kelly's subsequent behavior - namely that it stinks and continues to be pretty stinky.

Many (not all) seem to be in favor of cut-direct or temporary cut. Many do not seem to think there is going to be reasonableness on Stacy's part.

I would agree with the majority concensus. Cut direct or partial. Don't bother reasoning. I don't know how to make a self-centered person less self-centered so I'm no help there.

Will be waiting interestedly for updates from Weeble on how this all plays out.

Wordgeek

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #160 on: October 12, 2012, 01:21:26 PM »
This is a very interesting thread, with lots of good places for discussion to go.  At the moment, it's going in circles a bit, so I'm closing it temporarily in order to allow people to catch up on the reading.

I'll reopen it in a few hours.

ETA reopened.  Stay on topic.  Happy posting!

(...any updates, OP?)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 04:50:39 PM by Wordgeek »

Iris

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #161 on: October 12, 2012, 05:26:16 PM »
I'm curious for updates, too. I think this is something that is going to have serious ongoing effects. At the very least I think that Stacy has blown her chances with the 'cool kids'.
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weeblewobble

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #162 on: October 12, 2012, 05:35:20 PM »
No updates yet, and there might not be for a few days until DH talks to Eric again.  Just wanted to warn you. :)

Thipu1

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #163 on: October 12, 2012, 06:05:50 PM »
Thank you for the temporary shut-down of this thread.  There's so much going on here that people need time to think. 

I have no doubt that the OP is sincere and does not know the entire story.  However, as someone who has been a competitive athlete,  an amateur trainer and the writer of interactive mysteries, I have a few problems with timing. 

1). The workout is said to be a ten mile run.

2) The other two ladies are said to set a fast pace.

3). Kelly stays behind to run with Stacy.

4) Five miles into the ten mile workout, Kelly is quite seriously injured.

5). Stacy takes off and says that she and the others will meet Kelly back at the cars in 'about an hour'.

Here are the problems I find in the story.

1) Stacy expects to catch up with the 'Cool Girls' and finish the workout with them. 

2) If Stacy can catch up with the others and it will take them an hour to cover the last 5 miles, the 'fast pace' can't be all that fast.  A generous estimate would be that they're doing 9 or 10 minute miles.  That isn't a fast pace by any definition.

There are other questions here. 

1) In this day and age, just about everyone carries a phone.  Knowing that the workout would be done in an area that could possibly be dangerous, why did no one have a phone loaded with the numbers of park security and local police?

2) When Stacy told the 'Cool Girls' that Kelly had decided to truncate the workout, why did no one call Kelly to see If she was all right?

I do not mean to imply that Stacy was correct in any way.  Her actions were sneaky, nasty and self-serving. 

I do not mean to suggest that the OP was untruthful.  The OP reported the truth as she knew it but we do not know the whole truth here. 

On this thread we have heard from runners, cyclists, climbers and hikers.  They all know about the
ethics of sport and have a good idea of how much time a certain distance should take to cover.

Something is off here but I can't quite put my finger on what it is. 

 

   

Judah

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #164 on: October 12, 2012, 06:11:42 PM »
I really don't see any of those questions as issues.  Fast is relative and I never carry a phone when I run. Plus, we're getting the story third hand, so the details are naturally going to be fuzzy.
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