Author Topic: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you. UPDATE P17  (Read 28381 times)

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Veronica

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #180 on: October 12, 2012, 08:04:41 PM »
Thipu, I agree that the timing or something is off for me too.  If Stacey really wanted in with the cool kids, she would not have lagged behind, and she could not have caught up after the cool kids ran ahead.  I can't tell if they were running a loop or what but if her goal was to meet the cook kids back at the car, it would have been better to go back with Kelly. And I agree that the pace as described is not fast if it is taking an hour to run five miles and Stacey could not keep up with that.  Anyway, I just think there is so much unknown here.  Stacey was a jerk in the aftermath, but I think some posters are assigning motives to her initial decision to run ahead that just don't add up to me.

I always run with my phone, both so I can call someone if I need to and so I can use RunKeeper and keep track of my mileage.  I am pretty sure most runners I know of do!

So if you were without your phone and hurt yourself when running you would expect your fellow runners to just leave you there and finish the route? 

Florida

TurtleDove

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #181 on: October 12, 2012, 08:05:10 PM »
it seems that you are bending over backwards to prove that Stacy did nothing wrong when Kelly hurt her foot and told Stacy that she was in pain. 

No, I am saying that to me it doesn't make sense that her motive in leaving Kelly was to impress the cool kids, and that it does not seem clear to me at all that Stacey knew Kelly was hurt.  That is the sole portion I am addressing.  I think Stacey has proven herself to be a jerk, but the posts that "anyone who would leave someone obviously seriously injured is an unempathetic jerk" I don't think are fair.  Those overly broad statements are what I am addressing.

TurtleDove

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #182 on: October 12, 2012, 08:06:17 PM »

So if you were without your phone and hurt yourself when running you would expect your fellow runners to just leave you there and finish the route?

I don't know how many times I need to say this.  First, I would have my phone. Second, if I needed help I would ASK FOR that help.

Veronica

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #183 on: October 12, 2012, 08:09:41 PM »

So if you were without your phone and hurt yourself when running you would expect your fellow runners to just leave you there and finish the route?

I don't know how many times I need to say this.  First, I would have my phone. Second, if I needed help I would ASK FOR that help.

1) So if you didn't have your phone it would be fine to leave you?  2) It doesn't sound like Kelly said, "oh no, go one without me," so you would be fine with leaving an injured friend behind if they didn't specifically ask you to stay with them?

Florida

Surianne

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #184 on: October 12, 2012, 08:10:01 PM »
it seems that you are bending over backwards to prove that Stacy did nothing wrong when Kelly hurt her foot and told Stacy that she was in pain. 

No, I am saying that to me it doesn't make sense that her motive in leaving Kelly was to impress the cool kids, and that it does not seem clear to me at all that Stacey knew Kelly was hurt.  That is the sole portion I am addressing.  I think Stacey has proven herself to be a jerk, but the posts that "anyone who would leave someone obviously seriously injured is an unempathetic jerk" I don't think are fair.  Those overly broad statements are what I am addressing.

I agree with you completely on this one.

Zilla

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #185 on: October 12, 2012, 08:10:56 PM »
Thank you for the temporary shut-down of this thread.  There's so much going on here that people need time to think. 

I have no doubt that the OP is sincere and does not know the entire story.  However, as someone who has been a competitive athlete,  an amateur trainer and the writer of interactive mysteries, I have a few problems with timing. 

1). The workout is said to be a ten mile run.

2) The other two ladies are said to set a fast pace.

3). Kelly stays behind to run with Stacy.

4) Five miles into the ten mile workout, Kelly is quite seriously injured.

5). Stacy takes off and says that she and the others will meet Kelly back at the cars in 'about an hour'.

Here are the problems I find in the story.

1) Stacy expects to catch up with the 'Cool Girls' and finish the workout with them. 

2) If Stacy can catch up with the others and it will take them an hour to cover the last 5 miles, the 'fast pace' can't be all that fast.  A generous estimate would be that they're doing 9 or 10 minute miles.  That isn't a fast pace by any definition.

There are other questions here. 

1) In this day and age, just about everyone carries a phone.  Knowing that the workout would be done in an area that could possibly be dangerous, why did no one have a phone loaded with the numbers of park security and local police?

2) When Stacy told the 'Cool Girls' that Kelly had decided to truncate the workout, why did no one call Kelly to see If she was all right?

I do not mean to imply that Stacy was correct in any way.  Her actions were sneaky, nasty and self-serving. 

I do not mean to suggest that the OP was untruthful.  The OP reported the truth as she knew it but we do not know the whole truth here. 

On this thread we have heard from runners, cyclists, climbers and hikers.  They all know about the
ethics of sport and have a good idea of how much time a certain distance should take to cover.

Something is off here but I can't quite put my finger on what it is. 
 

according to the original post, they did indeed call Kelly and apologize, because they had just found out, from Stacy, that Kelly was indeed hurt, and had not just decided to not finish the run as Stacy originally told them.

let's keep in mind that Kelly knows these two through Stacy, who works with them.  it's not like Kelly knew them before. 

i'm not sure what's feeling "off" to you.  it sounds pretty much cut and dried to me.


Plus an average jog is 8-10 minutes and a run is 5-7 minutes for a good runner.  And then they do something to cool down whether it's walking or stretching.  So I can see it taking an hour. 

greencat

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #186 on: October 12, 2012, 08:14:50 PM »
I think you're missing some things Turtledove:

Kelly didn't tell Stacey to leave her.  Stacey didn't give her the option of "I'll stay if you think you're hurt or I'll get you some help" either.  Kelly was obviously limping and Stacey told her to make her own way back to the car, and then Stacey told the other women a blatant lie about why Kelly wasn't with her.

Does your phone never break and do you never forget to charge it or simply forget it at home?  Do you have perfect reception everywhere?  Kelly didn't have her phone or didn't have reception.  You always having your phone on you isn't relevant to Kelly's situation - Kelly was relying on her friend to keep her safe running, and her friend failed her.  You are relying on being able to call for help, but Kelly should have had help right there with her, and her help left.

TurtleDove

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #187 on: October 12, 2012, 08:15:00 PM »

1) So if you didn't have your phone it would be fine to leave you?  2) It doesn't sound like Kelly said, "oh no, go one without me," so you would be fine with leaving an injured friend behind if they didn't specifically ask you to stay with them?

Veronica, please stop.  Please read what I have read and stop trying to villianize me.  I personally would not leave anyone unless and until I knew they were okay.  I personally would ASK someone to stay with me if I wanted them to stay, and if I did not, I would happily ask them to run ahead.  In the OP, Kelly did NOT ask Stacey to stay and did NOT express that she was upset when Stacey said she was running ahead.  I would have handled it differently, but to assign totally awful motives to Stacey I think is not appropriate.

still in va

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #188 on: October 12, 2012, 08:20:22 PM »
it seems that you are bending over backwards to prove that Stacy did nothing wrong when Kelly hurt her foot and told Stacy that she was in pain. 

No, I am saying that to me it doesn't make sense that her motive in leaving Kelly was to impress the cool kids, and that it does not seem clear to me at all that Stacey knew Kelly was hurt.  That is the sole portion I am addressing.  I think Stacey has proven herself to be a jerk, but the posts that "anyone who would leave someone obviously seriously injured is an unempathetic jerk" I don't think are fair.  Those overly broad statements are what I am addressing.

someone already posted to you the portion of the original post where Kelly made the misstep, and she immediately couldn't stand and it began to swell.  if i'm running with someone else, who is an experienced runner, and they immediately cannot put weight upon their foot and that foot immediately begins to swell, i don't need to be told that that person is injured. 

and i'm sorry, but if i'm running with someone (which would never happen because i despise running), and they trip or make a misstep and their foot immediately begins to swell?  my first reaction is not going to be to run off and try to catch up with the other members of our group because i don't want to break my stride, or whatever stupid excuse Stacy used.  Stacy was a jerk in how she handled it afterwards.  she was also a jerk, in MY opinion, in how she handled Kelly's injury, and just running off after telling Kelly to meet them all at their cars.  your opinion is obviously different.  that's fine with me.  but you aren't going to change my mind, much as i assume that i am not going to change yours.

Veronica

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #189 on: October 12, 2012, 08:22:18 PM »

1) So if you didn't have your phone it would be fine to leave you?  2) It doesn't sound like Kelly said, "oh no, go one without me," so you would be fine with leaving an injured friend behind if they didn't specifically ask you to stay with them?

Veronica, please stop.  Please read what I have read and stop trying to villianize me.  I personally would not leave anyone unless and until I knew they were okay.  I personally would ASK someone to stay with me if I wanted them to stay, and if I did not, I would happily ask them to run ahead.  In the OP, Kelly did NOT ask Stacey to stay and did NOT express that she was upset when Stacey said she was running ahead.  I would have handled it differently, but to assign totally awful motives to Stacey I think is not appropriate.

I can only go by what you've said in this thread.  I don't believe I'm trying to "villianize" you.  I think the reaction to Stacey has been appropriate and I am frankly astonished that anyone can defend her based on these set of facts. 

Florida

still in va

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #190 on: October 12, 2012, 08:23:23 PM »

1) So if you didn't have your phone it would be fine to leave you?  2) It doesn't sound like Kelly said, "oh no, go one without me," so you would be fine with leaving an injured friend behind if they didn't specifically ask you to stay with them?

Veronica, please stop.  Please read what I have read and stop trying to villianize me.  I personally would not leave anyone unless and until I knew they were okay.  I personally would ASK someone to stay with me if I wanted them to stay, and if I did not, I would happily ask them to run ahead.  In the OP, Kelly did NOT ask Stacey to stay and did NOT express that she was upset when Stacey said she was running ahead.  I would have handled it differently, but to assign totally awful motives to Stacey I think is not appropriate.

Turtle Dove, no one is trying to villianize you.  you seem to be determined to defend Stacy running off and leaving Kelly, who could not walk.  yes it's true that Kelly didn't say "Stacy, don't leave me."  it also sounds as if Stacy didn't give Kelly much of a chance to say anything before she went racing off.

we aren't accusing you of being Stacy, or that you would do what Stacy did.

NyaChan

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #191 on: October 12, 2012, 08:28:55 PM »
You know, I don't in general think that there is an appropriate reaction and anything that doesn't fall into that is inappropriate.  In fact, I think threads that only have one opinion - that the person posted about is horrible and there can be no defense of them - are pretty boring and one-dimensional.  People are human, they make mistakes.  I think that TurtleDove is giving an interesting point of view, though I don't agree with her, and is keeping open the option that there may have been a possible reason why Stacy ran on than other than that she is just a horrible person with no redeeming qualities.

TurtleDove

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #192 on: October 12, 2012, 08:30:01 PM »
Please read my posts.  I have not defended Stacey and have continually said I do NOT defend her.  I am addressing the broad statements that it is unempathetic to leave a running partner.  Again, I would not have handled this how Stacey did and for the eleventyseventh time I AM NOT DEFENDING STACEY.

Surianne

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #193 on: October 12, 2012, 08:37:20 PM »
it seems that you are bending over backwards to prove that Stacy did nothing wrong when Kelly hurt her foot and told Stacy that she was in pain. 

No, I am saying that to me it doesn't make sense that her motive in leaving Kelly was to impress the cool kids, and that it does not seem clear to me at all that Stacey knew Kelly was hurt.  That is the sole portion I am addressing.  I think Stacey has proven herself to be a jerk, but the posts that "anyone who would leave someone obviously seriously injured is an unempathetic jerk" I don't think are fair.  Those overly broad statements are what I am addressing.

someone already posted to you the portion of the original post where Kelly made the misstep, and she immediately couldn't stand and it began to swell.  if i'm running with someone else, who is an experienced runner, and they immediately cannot put weight upon their foot and that foot immediately begins to swell, i don't need to be told that that person is injured. 

I've noticed a lot of posts about how Stacey should have stopped because of the swelling.  I'm curious...without looking closely and maybe even touching the other person's foot, from a standing position, could you really tell that another person's foot was swelling?  I know I couldn't.  Why would you expect Stacey (or whoever) to see that Kelly's foot is swelling without Kelly actually saying it?

Maybe other posters are better visual doctors than I am...but I definitely wouldn't be able to diagnose someone's foot as swelling when they're wearing socks, pants, and shoes, and I was standing and not right up close next to them.

While I agree that Stacey should have asked Kelly if she wanted her to stay, I don't think it was on her to be able to tell how badly Kelly was injured, if Kelly didn't make that clear.  I think in the rush to villainize Stacey and anyone else who might not stay (myself included), there are a lot of assumptions about Stacey's knowledge being made here.  Honestly, if someone didn't say to me "My foot is swelling," as a non-doctor I wouldn't have the faintest clue how to see that.

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #194 on: October 12, 2012, 08:46:57 PM »
it seems that you are bending over backwards to prove that Stacy did nothing wrong when Kelly hurt her foot and told Stacy that she was in pain. 

No, I am saying that to me it doesn't make sense that her motive in leaving Kelly was to impress the cool kids, and that it does not seem clear to me at all that Stacey knew Kelly was hurt.  That is the sole portion I am addressing.  I think Stacey has proven herself to be a jerk, but the posts that "anyone who would leave someone obviously seriously injured is an unempathetic jerk" I don't think are fair.  Those overly broad statements are what I am addressing.

someone already posted to you the portion of the original post where Kelly made the misstep, and she immediately couldn't stand and it began to swell.  if i'm running with someone else, who is an experienced runner, and they immediately cannot put weight upon their foot and that foot immediately begins to swell, i don't need to be told that that person is injured. 

I've noticed a lot of posts about how Stacey should have stopped because of the swelling.  I'm curious...without looking closely and maybe even touching the other person's foot, from a standing position, could you really tell that another person's foot was swelling?  I know I couldn't.  Why would you expect Stacey (or whoever) to see that Kelly's foot is swelling without Kelly actually saying it?

Maybe other posters are better visual doctors than I am...but I definitely wouldn't be able to diagnose someone's foot as swelling when they're wearing socks, pants, and shoes, and I was standing and not right up close next to them.

While I agree that Stacey should have asked Kelly if she wanted her to stay, I don't think it was on her to be able to tell how badly Kelly was injured, if Kelly didn't make that clear.  I think in the rush to villainize Stacey and anyone else who might not stay (myself included), there are a lot of assumptions about Stacey's knowledge being made here.  Honestly, if someone didn't say to me "My foot is swelling," as a non-doctor I wouldn't have the faintest clue how to see that.

and here we go again with the whole villianizing thing.  from the original post:

Kelly had a missed step about five miles into the ten mile run and severely injured her ankle.  It immediately started to swell and she was in a lot of pain.

The other women were nowhere in sight.  Rather than staying with Kelly and making sure she got back to her car safely, Stacy told her to just walk back to the car and they would meet her when they were done with their run.  Which would take another hour or so.

And then she ran off, leaving Kelly on the running path by herself.


again, it doesn't sound like Stacy gave Kelly much of a chance to say anything before she ran off to join the others.

no one is villianizing Stacy.  she made an error in judgement, which she compounded by being angry at Kelly for finally making it back to her car, without any help from her friend of 13 years, and drove herself to the ER. 

personally, if Stacy had left me injured on a running path and told me she'd see me in an hour, without a sincere apology when she found out that i actually had fractured a bone, she wouldn't have to worry about seeing me for a very long time.