Author Topic: Help! Where do I spend Christmas? (long) update p25, p45  (Read 5082 times)

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Fleur

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Re: Help! Where do I spend Christmas? (long) update p25
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2012, 06:06:23 AM »
If his choice is alcohol over compromising with you and trying to put effort into spending time with you at home (he could drink on another holiday day), I think you have far more serious problems that Etiquette Hell cannot resolve.

I still think it was unnecessary to tell your mother about it, she automatically sided with you in "her" interest.

I agree with the first part of your post, though not with the second. I think it was perfectly natural for the OP to tell her mother, in fact it wasn't really a question of 'telling' more the conversation occured quite naturally. That said, the drinking would be a 'thing' for me as well. I like a celebratory drink as much as the next person, but my idea of a fun Christmas is not to drink so much that I am incapacitated. I don't at all blame the OP for not finding that fun!

Perfect Circle

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Re: Help! Where do I spend Christmas? (long) update p25
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2012, 06:31:37 AM »
If his choice is alcohol over compromising with you and trying to put effort into spending time with you at home (he could drink on another holiday day), I think you have far more serious problems that Etiquette Hell cannot resolve.


I agree and from bitter personal experience can say that marriage will not change this behaviour.
In all this talk of time
Talk is fine
But I don't want to stay around
Why can't we pantomime, just close our eyes
And sleep sweet dreams
Me and you with wings on our feet

Kiara

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Re: Help! Where do I spend Christmas? (long) update p25
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2012, 09:42:45 AM »
OP, I kept thinking this sounded familiar, so I looked in the Hugs folder.  You've been having problems between your DF and your parents, as well as problems with his drinking, for at least 2 years.  Close to three.  At this point, I'm not surprised you told your mom.  I think you need to decide what YOU want.  Not just for Christmas, but from this relationship, and your life in general.  It's been two years and it sounds to this outsider like not a lot has changed.  If it hasn't yet, it won't change after marriage.

Background:  (I know there's more, but this is what I found in a 2 minute search)

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=74159.0

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=78107.0

Aeris

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Re: Help! Where do I spend Christmas? (long) update p25
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2012, 12:50:52 PM »
If his choice is alcohol over compromising with you and trying to put effort into spending time with you at home (he could drink on another holiday day), I think you have far more serious problems that Etiquette Hell cannot resolve.

Completely and totally agree. And he hasn't changed this destructive behavior in the years the OP has been struggling with it, and there's zero reason to think any of it will change in the future.


I still think it was unnecessary to tell your mother about it, she automatically sided with you in "her" interest.

But this I disagree with completely. There's a fine line between airing dirty laundry and getting sanity checks. While a person shouldn't go running to Mom (or even best friends) with every little petty relationship squabble that comes up, because it poisons the well against the BF/DF/DH unnecessarily, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using best friends and moms as sounding boards to try to figure out serious issues in a relationship.

If you can't use your best friends/mom to help you figure out what's normal, what's okay, and what's absolutely bat-poo insane, it's entirely too easy to get your sense of normal completely out of whack, and find yourself putting up with behaviors that are wildly inappropriate. All the while thinking 'this is what is supposed to be happening.....right?'

In the OP, we have a man who is behaving phenomenally selfishly, demanding that the OP give up a tradition that extremely important to her and that makes her very very happy in order to sit at home and watch him get smashed and pass out early on Christmas. And then the OP is telling herself 'well, I'm supposed to be prioritizing him over my family, so I guess this is what I'm supposed to do....' WHICH IS CRAZY. The result is that she's prioritizing him over *herself*, prioritizing his preferences over her preferences, and he's not doing a dang thing in exchange.

So, yeah, the OP could do with a few sanity checks, from Mom or anyone else.

To the OP: As a sanity check, the fact that he won't even consider compromising in any way (whether by going with you, or even just by trying to make Xmas with him a bit more fun than a lobotomy) is a problem. A very serious problem that is much bigger than Christmas and shows no indication of changing at any point in the future.

sparksals

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Re: Help! Where do I spend Christmas? (long) update p25
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2012, 01:02:33 PM »
If his choice is alcohol over compromising with you and trying to put effort into spending time with you at home (he could drink on another holiday day), I think you have far more serious problems that Etiquette Hell cannot resolve.

I still think it was unnecessary to tell your mother about it, she automatically sided with you in "her" interest.

I have to agree telling the mother was not the best thing to do given how she feels about the fiance.  The past threads show clearly her lack of objectivity. 

Given the history of this relationship, I think the OP has more things to worry about than how or where to spend Christmas.   

bopper

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Re: Help! Where do I spend Christmas? (long) update p25
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2012, 01:29:33 PM »
You need to come to an agreement that both of you are happy with.
You need a balance between giving and taking. If the balance is off, it leads to resentment.

You want to see your family at least once a year.
You would prefer to do that with him and at Christmas.
You see Christmas as a family/group time.
He finds your parents overbearing.
So a compromise might be that you expect him to eat dinner with everyone and participate in presents, but when it comes to game playing if he wants to take a nap or watch a movie that will be fine. 
Maybe the compromise is that you don't stay at your parent's house.

My DH has a big family and it gets quite boisterous at holiday time.  Often you will find sme of the in-laws in the basement watching a movie and taking a break from the noise.

Fleur

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Re: Help! Where do I spend Christmas? (long) update p25
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2012, 01:30:14 PM »
If his choice is alcohol over compromising with you and trying to put effort into spending time with you at home (he could drink on another holiday day), I think you have far more serious problems that Etiquette Hell cannot resolve.

Completely and totally agree. And he hasn't changed this destructive behavior in the years the OP has been struggling with it, and there's zero reason to think any of it will change in the future.


I still think it was unnecessary to tell your mother about it, she automatically sided with you in "her" interest.

But this I disagree with completely. There's a fine line between airing dirty laundry and getting sanity checks. While a person shouldn't go running to Mom (or even best friends) with every little petty relationship squabble that comes up, because it poisons the well against the BF/DF/DH unnecessarily, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using best friends and moms as sounding boards to try to figure out serious issues in a relationship.

If you can't use your best friends/mom to help you figure out what's normal, what's okay, and what's absolutely bat-poo insane, it's entirely too easy to get your sense of normal completely out of whack, and find yourself putting up with behaviors that are wildly inappropriate. All the while thinking 'this is what is supposed to be happening.....right?'

In the OP, we have a man who is behaving phenomenally selfishly, demanding that the OP give up a tradition that extremely important to her and that makes her very very happy in order to sit at home and watch him get smashed and pass out early on Christmas. And then the OP is telling herself 'well, I'm supposed to be prioritizing him over my family, so I guess this is what I'm supposed to do....' WHICH IS CRAZY. The result is that she's prioritizing him over *herself*, prioritizing his preferences over her preferences, and he's not doing a dang thing in exchange.

So, yeah, the OP could do with a few sanity checks, from Mom or anyone else.

To the OP: As a sanity check, the fact that he won't even consider compromising in any way (whether by going with you, or even just by trying to make Xmas with him a bit more fun than a lobotomy) is a problem. A very serious problem that is much bigger than Christmas and shows no indication of changing at any point in the future.

Thank you, you said what I was thinking far more eloquently than I managed to. And wow, that backstory does make me see how embedded this drinking pattern is. I have to agree that that level of drinking is a serious issue.

EMuir

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Re: Help! Where do I spend Christmas? (long) update p25
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2012, 01:36:56 PM »
I really hope that he has improved since the days when he wasn't eating well and was drinking a lot.  That being said:

- It sounds like he's an introvert.  Perhaps you could take care of both your needs by renting a hotel room in your hometown and letting him attend just the events he wants to?  After all, he can drink just as well in a hotel room as in your home if that's all he's going to do.
- It's not fair to ask an introvert to plan things for vacation time, because to an introvert maybe just staying home and relaxing with the spouse is preferable to a full slate of things to rush around doing.  If you are always going to want to be out doing things and your DH is always going to want to stay home, you either have to learn to compromise or re-evaluate the relationship.


camlan

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Re: Help! Where do I spend Christmas? (long) update p25
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2012, 02:05:45 PM »
I really hope that he has improved since the days when he wasn't eating well and was drinking a lot.  That being said:

- It sounds like he's an introvert.  Perhaps you could take care of both your needs by renting a hotel room in your hometown and letting him attend just the events he wants to?  After all, he can drink just as well in a hotel room as in your home if that's all he's going to do.
- It's not fair to ask an introvert to plan things for vacation time, because to an introvert maybe just staying home and relaxing with the spouse is preferable to a full slate of things to rush around doing.  If you are always going to want to be out doing things and your DH is always going to want to stay home, you either have to learn to compromise or re-evaluate the relationship.

Respectfully disagreeing here. I'm about as introverted as they come, but I get out and do things. Just not as often or with as many people as an extrovert might. I attend plays and concerts and movies and go out to eat with groups of people and visit museums and scenic areas and go to the beach and the mountains and all sorts of things. I have people over to my house, but in small groups and at times when I know that I will be able to be alone afterwards to recharge.

I might spend more time at home than an extrovert would. But it is possible to plan five or six days of activities at a level that an introvert feels comfortable with--a mix of things outside of the house, things with a few friends and things with just an SO, and maybe some completely alone time to recharge.

The OP's DF may be an introvert, but that doesn't mean that staying home for the holidays should involve nothing but sitting around and drinking.

And for those criticizing the OP for telling her mother--at some point, if the OP was planning to stay in CurrentCity for the holidays, she needs to tell her parents not to expect her. And most parents are going to be sad that a child won't be home for the holidays.

When I read the OP, I thought the DF wanted a nice, quiet, romantic Christmas in his own home, with his fiancee. The background from the other posts has changed my mind on that point.
Nothing is impossible, the word itself says, “I’m possible!” –Audrey Hepburn

EMuir

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Re: Help! Where do I spend Christmas? (long) update p25
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2012, 02:17:58 PM »
Sorry, I did lump all introverts together there.  I should have said it isn't fair to ask *everyone* to plan things for vacation time.  If DH really hates socializing of any type, then going to a holiday break where every afternoon he's asked to socialize, even for a few hours, can be very tiring.

With respect Camlan, you may be "about" as introverted as they come, but if you enjoy all those activities, there's still plenty of space past you on the introversion scale. :)

dawbs

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Re: Help! Where do I spend Christmas? (long)
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2012, 02:18:46 PM »
*snip*

Me: DF would like the two of us to have a quiet Christmas here by ourselves this year. So I'm considering doing that.

Mum: Oh, that is quite selfish of him! You've been working hard all year, and deserve to see your family and friends back in HomeCity. Why don't you come home as usual? DF is welcome to join us too. 

*snip*

I have mixed feelings on the 'telling of mom' issue, but, I have to say that I REALLY disliked this reaction.
This wasn't a "hmm, lets find a compromise" or "oh, we'll miss you" or even a "let me commiserate" response.  This was a completely 'blame BF" response.
There's no acknowledgement at all that 1-YOU could want something other than being home 2-that there may be a better solution and 3-that BF may have preferences that are different.
Instead it immediately goes into ascribing 'selfish' motives to BF.

Several posters have suggested 'compromises' of one sort or another, and I think that you and BF need to talk about what would make you happy, regardless of where you go.  Since 'hang out and drink beer' isn't your cuppa (nor does it have to be), IF you could plan your perfect 'just the 2 of you' Christmas, what would it be?

MummySweet

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Re: Help! Where do I spend Christmas? (long) update p25
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2012, 02:31:32 PM »
I'm not usually a fan of going back to old threads, because situations often change.  But in this case, it sounds like the DF's behavior hasn't changed all that much, and now it's affecting an event that the OP really enjoys, looks forward to, and perhaps even needs for her own wellbeing. 

OP, in your case I think you need to ask yourself, "If I stay here for Christmas to please DH, what is he really going to do to show me that he values me and the sacrifice I made for him?"   No relationship is completely even and fair, and at times we make sacrifices for those that we love with no reciprocation. But relationships that really work have two people who both give and take.   

If you believed that he would come through and make the holiday about you as a couple, I would say start your own traditions with him.  But if it's just "same old, same old" with him and he just wants company, you need to take care of yourself and go where you can get the interaction and holiday spirit that you need.


MyFamily

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Re: Help! Where do I spend Christmas? (long) update p25
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2012, 04:24:19 PM »
The problem with these posts is we are only seeing the negative side of your DF.  He must have a very good side if you are planning the rest of your life with him.  But I have to say that the side of him you share here is one that scares me.  Are you planning on having children? How will your children feel if they spend every Christmas, every weekend, with a father that is drunk?  Did you ever get the counseling you mentioned in earlier threads (I couldn't read through them entirely, so I may have missed that)?  If not, you really need to do this, especially for yourself.  You are being pulled between people who are supposed to have your best interests at heart, but it honestly sounds like you don't know what is in your best interest.


"The test of good manners is to be patient with bad ones" - Solomon ibn Gabirol

buvezdevin

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Re: Help! Where do I spend Christmas? (long) update p25
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2012, 09:32:05 PM »
The problem with these posts is we are only seeing the negative side of your DF.  He must have a very good side if you are planning the rest of your life with him.  But I have to say that the side of him you share here is one that scares me.  Are you planning on having children? How will your children feel if they spend every Christmas, every weekend, with a father that is drunk?  Did you ever get the counseling you mentioned in earlier threads (I couldn't read through them entirely, so I may have missed that)?  If not, you really need to do this, especially for yourself.  You are being pulled between people who are supposed to have your best interests at heart, but it honestly sounds like you don't know what is in your best interest.
This.
Never refuse to do a kindness unless the act would work great injury to yourself, and never refuse to take a drink -- under any circumstances.
Mark Twain

sparksals

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Re: Help! Where do I spend Christmas? (long) update p25
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2012, 02:30:18 AM »
The problem with these posts is we are only seeing the negative side of your DF.  He must have a very good side if you are planning the rest of your life with him.  But I have to say that the side of him you share here is one that scares me.  Are you planning on having children? How will your children feel if they spend every Christmas, every weekend, with a father that is drunk?  Did you ever get the counseling you mentioned in earlier threads (I couldn't read through them entirely, so I may have missed that)?  If not, you really need to do this, especially for yourself.  You are being pulled between people who are supposed to have your best interests at heart, but it honestly sounds like you don't know what is in your best interest.
This.

Ditto.