Author Topic: Winning  (Read 20527 times)

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Twik

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Re: Winning
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2012, 11:16:34 AM »
Let's say it wasn't a house, it was some family jewelry that the OP gave to her daughter. Would you object to taking precautions that the husband couldn't walk off with half of it, in case the marriage did founder?

As much of a romantic as I am, I see no problem with a parent saying, "I am going to give you a gift, and I want to make steps that this gift is always yours, come hell or high water." Otherwise, I think one would be objecting to nearly all premarital financial planning, since that should always consider what happens if the marriage ends, as much as we hope it doesn't.

I would be very upset if I gave my child something as expensive as a home, to ensure her security, only to find her (let's say) cheating, abusive soon-to-be-ex was going to end up with at least half of it, and she would be, basically, out on the street. Proper planning is essential, though, to eliminate that possibility.
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

Sharnita

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Re: Winning
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2012, 11:23:58 AM »
Let's say it wasn't a house, it was some family jewelry that the OP gave to her daughter. Would you object to taking precautions that the husband couldn't walk off with half of it, in case the marriage did founder?

As much of a romantic as I am, I see no problem with a parent saying, "I am going to give you a gift, and I want to make steps that this gift is always yours, come hell or high water." Otherwise, I think one would be objecting to nearly all premarital financial planning, since that should always consider what happens if the marriage ends, as much as we hope it doesn't.

I would be very upset if I gave my child something as expensive as a home, to ensure her security, only to find her (let's say) cheating, abusive soon-to-be-ex was going to end up with at least half of it, and she would be, basically, out on the street. Proper planning is essential, though, to eliminate that possibility.

I don't think it is the same.  You live in a house together, pay taxes together, maintain it, mow the lawn ... Also, it is entirely possible the marriage could end because the wife is abusive  and or cheating.  Men are not the de facto villains.

TootsNYC

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Re: Winning
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2012, 11:27:57 AM »
But I think the basic point about the DD's fiance was that he is a bit too closely entangled to be a truly neutral advisor.

And that he's an accountant--which is NOT the same thing as a financial planner capable of sorting out the investment and protection of protecting $500,000 or whatever.

Sharnita

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Re: Winning
« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2012, 11:29:50 AM »
But I think the basic point about the DD's fiance was that he is a bit too closely entangled to be a truly neutral advisor.

And that he's an accountant--which is NOT the same thing as a financial planner capable of sorting out the investment and protection of protecting $500,000 or whatever.

Oh, I agree that he might not need to be the advisor.  I think that mom putting the house he and DD will live in into a trust is a bridge too far.

Twik

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Re: Winning
« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2012, 11:37:34 AM »
Let's say it wasn't a house, it was some family jewelry that the OP gave to her daughter. Would you object to taking precautions that the husband couldn't walk off with half of it, in case the marriage did founder?

As much of a romantic as I am, I see no problem with a parent saying, "I am going to give you a gift, and I want to make steps that this gift is always yours, come hell or high water." Otherwise, I think one would be objecting to nearly all premarital financial planning, since that should always consider what happens if the marriage ends, as much as we hope it doesn't.

I would be very upset if I gave my child something as expensive as a home, to ensure her security, only to find her (let's say) cheating, abusive soon-to-be-ex was going to end up with at least half of it, and she would be, basically, out on the street. Proper planning is essential, though, to eliminate that possibility.

I don't think it is the same.  You live in a house together, pay taxes together, maintain it, mow the lawn ... Also, it is entirely possible the marriage could end because the wife is abusive  and or cheating.  Men are not the de facto villains.

Well, I used daughter and husband, because that is the OP's situation. It would be the same principle if I wanted to give a house to my son, and prevent it from ending up entirely in the hands of my ex-DIL.
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

TootsNYC

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Re: Winning
« Reply #50 on: October 23, 2012, 12:11:19 PM »
Heck, if my kid were not getting married, and I were going to buy him something as big-ticket as a house, in one fell swoop, I'd probably put it in a trust.

I'm not handing over THAT much in assets to someone who isn't actually going to *earn it* (big diff. in how people normally pay for such a huge purchase; they may not have as much at stake, for example) without making sure that creditors, future spouses, etc., can't siphon it off.

and there's where a financial *planner* can help, because maybe that person would say, "put a time expiration on it--after 7 years, it becomes theirs wholly, or whatever."

And then the disposition of the house in terms of spouses is the adult child's problem

sparksals

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Re: Winning
« Reply #51 on: October 23, 2012, 02:22:14 PM »
I have to agree with doodlemoor.  With this sum of money, you need a qualified professional trained especially in financial planning.  An accountant is not qualified.  If anything happens with your Dd's relationship, do you want him having so much info about your personal finances?

It might be best to stop planning for the end of her daughter's marriage/relationship.

It is wise planning especially in terms a large amount of finances.  No one knows what will happen. 

sparksals

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Re: Winning
« Reply #52 on: October 23, 2012, 02:23:50 PM »
I have to agree with doodlemoor.  With this sum of money, you need a qualified professional trained especially in financial planning.  An accountant is not qualified.  If anything happens with your Dd's relationship, do you want him having so much info about your personal finances?

It might be best to stop planning for the end of her daughter's marriage/relationship.

Well, it's something that has to be considered in financial planning. Even the happiest relationships may eventually founder, and it is the job of a good financial planner to take that into account. Since it would be awkward for the daughter's fiance to do this (and might even be considered conflict of interest), I agree with other posters that a neutral third party, with experience in dealing with windfall sums, is the best solution. Certainly, the OP should be able to afford one now!

I think the suggestion of putting her house in a trust so that he doesn't get anything if they divorce is a bit OTT.  If OP hadn't won the lottery and her DD was marrying a guy who was already planning to keep his house away from her in case of divorce, I'd be slightly disgusted.


Again, wise financial planning.  Why should he get any part of a house for which he did not pay and was basically a gift to the OP's DD? 

sparksals

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Re: Winning
« Reply #53 on: October 23, 2012, 02:24:51 PM »
Let's say it wasn't a house, it was some family jewelry that the OP gave to her daughter. Would you object to taking precautions that the husband couldn't walk off with half of it, in case the marriage did founder?

As much of a romantic as I am, I see no problem with a parent saying, "I am going to give you a gift, and I want to make steps that this gift is always yours, come hell or high water." Otherwise, I think one would be objecting to nearly all premarital financial planning, since that should always consider what happens if the marriage ends, as much as we hope it doesn't.

I would be very upset if I gave my child something as expensive as a home, to ensure her security, only to find her (let's say) cheating, abusive soon-to-be-ex was going to end up with at least half of it, and she would be, basically, out on the street. Proper planning is essential, though, to eliminate that possibility.



POD!

Sharnita

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Re: Winning
« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2012, 02:26:16 PM »
I have to agree with doodlemoor.  With this sum of money, you need a qualified professional trained especially in financial planning.  An accountant is not qualified.  If anything happens with your Dd's relationship, do you want him having so much info about your personal finances?

It might be best to stop planning for the end of her daughter's marriage/relationship.

Well, it's something that has to be considered in financial planning. Even the happiest relationships may eventually founder, and it is the job of a good financial planner to take that into account. Since it would be awkward for the daughter's fiance to do this (and might even be considered conflict of interest), I agree with other posters that a neutral third party, with experience in dealing with windfall sums, is the best solution. Certainly, the OP should be able to afford one now!

I think the suggestion of putting her house in a trust so that he doesn't get anything if they divorce is a bit OTT.  If OP hadn't won the lottery and her DD was marrying a guy who was already planning to keep his house away from her in case of divorce, I'd be slightly disgusted.


Again, wise financial planning.  Why should he get any part of a house for which he did not pay and was basically a gift to the OP's DD?

because he will live there, help maintain it,  help pay property taxes, help clean it, help with upkeep ...

sparksals

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Re: Winning
« Reply #55 on: October 23, 2012, 02:27:47 PM »
Let's say it wasn't a house, it was some family jewelry that the OP gave to her daughter. Would you object to taking precautions that the husband couldn't walk off with half of it, in case the marriage did founder?

As much of a romantic as I am, I see no problem with a parent saying, "I am going to give you a gift, and I want to make steps that this gift is always yours, come hell or high water." Otherwise, I think one would be objecting to nearly all premarital financial planning, since that should always consider what happens if the marriage ends, as much as we hope it doesn't.

I would be very upset if I gave my child something as expensive as a home, to ensure her security, only to find her (let's say) cheating, abusive soon-to-be-ex was going to end up with at least half of it, and she would be, basically, out on the street. Proper planning is essential, though, to eliminate that possibility.

I don't think it is the same.  You live in a house together, pay taxes together, maintain it, mow the lawn ... Also, it is entirely possible the marriage could end because the wife is abusive  and or cheating.  Men are not the de facto villains.

Well, I used daughter and husband, because that is the OP's situation. It would be the same principle if I wanted to give a house to my son, and prevent it from ending up entirely in the hands of my ex-DIL.

Exactly!  It is protecting an asset that is hers. 


Sharnita

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Re: Winning
« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2012, 02:32:25 PM »
If it is hers and he is entitled to nothing from it should she be entirely responsible for upkeep, taxes, lawn mowing, cleaning, etc? If we recommend making sure she gets all the value no matter what do we recommend making sure she gets all the work and responsibility?

sparksals

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Re: Winning
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2012, 02:34:39 PM »
I have to agree with doodlemoor.  With this sum of money, you need a qualified professional trained especially in financial planning.  An accountant is not qualified.  If anything happens with your Dd's relationship, do you want him having so much info about your personal finances?

It might be best to stop planning for the end of her daughter's marriage/relationship.

Well, it's something that has to be considered in financial planning. Even the happiest relationships may eventually founder, and it is the job of a good financial planner to take that into account. Since it would be awkward for the daughter's fiance to do this (and might even be considered conflict of interest), I agree with other posters that a neutral third party, with experience in dealing with windfall sums, is the best solution. Certainly, the OP should be able to afford one now!

I think the suggestion of putting her house in a trust so that he doesn't get anything if they divorce is a bit OTT.  If OP hadn't won the lottery and her DD was marrying a guy who was already planning to keep his house away from her in case of divorce, I'd be slightly disgusted.


Again, wise financial planning.  Why should he get any part of a house for which he did not pay and was basically a gift to the OP's DD?

because he will live there, help maintain it,  help pay property taxes, help clean it, help with upkeep ...

Just because he lives there doesn't mean he is entitled to half of a house he did not contribute one penny to the purchase.  Sure, he can get some increase in value after they are married - the difference in the value from marriage to the increase to whatever time. 

If a family member bought me a house, there is no way I would do anything to jeopardize the ownership of it.   

Years ago, my parents had both my sister and me on the title of the family home to prevent the house from going into probate and title would just transfer to us when they die.  That worked perfectly until they found out that our husbands would be entitled to shares of the house.  If one of us was divorcing, the value of the home could be attached as an asset to myself or my sister, forcing a payout to the ex.  When they discovered this, they immediately changed it back to their names.  My sister and I had to sign something and we had no problem doing so.  My parents were protecting the asset for them and for us in the future.

Twik

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Re: Winning
« Reply #58 on: October 23, 2012, 02:35:07 PM »
Why yes. And then she gets to charge her husband rent, for living in a house that he didn't spend a penny to buy.
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

Margo

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Re: Winning
« Reply #59 on: October 23, 2012, 03:32:29 PM »
Rusty,

congratulations on your win, and I think you are making very sensible plans :-)

I agree with those saying ignore your sister's comments initially, and if she renews her demands stick to 'that won't be possible'

If she does persist, I would suggest
(1) don't use words like, and stick to 'us' and 'our' when you talk about the money - so if she talks about you 'sharing' the money with her or her son, you make it very clear that she is asking you to GIVE her / nephew some of YOUR and YOUR HUSBAND'S money.
(2) if she does persist, consider saying something along the lines of "We're really surprised that you would ask us for money. We have decided not to discuss our finances with anyone other than our financial advisor. If we feel we can give some of the money away, we will of course be prioritising our own immediate family. We don't anticipate being in a position to provide gifts to extended family members"

It does highlight that she is asking you for money, not asking for 'her share' of a family asset.

And do consider speaking to independent financial / legal advisors about the gifts you do give, and whether you want to  attach conditions to any of them!