Author Topic: thank you, Dear Abby!  (Read 19859 times)

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Emmy

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #90 on: October 22, 2012, 09:04:34 PM »
Eh, I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting a partner to whom you are attracted.  His letter didn't endear him to me, but the idea that he wants someone fit and vibrant is not offensive in and of itself, nor do I find it shallow.

I'll agree with you. My aunt is fifty and quite fit. She works out with a personal trainer and has quite the physique. One of the qualities she looks for is someone who is in as good a shape as she is. Honestly, if she can require it of the men she dates, then the letter writer get to as well. What's sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose.

As long as she doesn't chastise other people for not being what she wants.

Let's say the writer had chosen some other trait, such as intelligence, and written, "Frankly, most of the women of my generation are poorly read and boring to talk to. Why don't women get that they need to make an effort to sound intelligent, or men just won't be interested?"

Would not most women find that offensive?

I agree, it is the tone of the letter that is off putting.  While most women his age (or any age) don't look like airbrushed supermodels, I find it hard to believe every single woman he has met has 'let her self go'.  When he mentions he wants a 'very attractive' partner and says nobody his age has measured up, I think the problem is his high standards and not women letting themselves go.  The LW is entitled to have whatever standards he wishes, but to complain that nobody measures up and chastising them for it is off putting.  I really think he wrote the letter to scold middle age women for letting themselves go because anybody would know where to find fit people.

I also think the term 'attractive' can have a wide range of meanings depending on the person.  To some 'attractive' is very narrow and means only people who are stunning.  However I (and probably most others) define it as somebody who is appealing physically and it can be a broad range of different looks, even somebody who is average looking can be attractive.  Personality, confidence, and other personality features actually make a person more or less physically attractive.

Editeer

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #91 on: October 22, 2012, 09:28:14 PM »
Yes. I think this guy's letter boils down to, "Dear Abby, I can't find enough attractive women to date. Spread the word to the women of the world to improve themselves for me, will you? Because they're really letting me down."


This, exactly. It's his attitude of entitlement, and his dudgeon that the world isn't meeting his expectations.

TurtleDove

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #92 on: October 22, 2012, 09:47:03 PM »
For what it's worth, I am 39 and have close friends ranging from 26 to 56.  I also am not at all shallow and I place a premium on appearance - my own and my SOs.

Maybe we are operating with differing definitions of 'premium.'

Premium "An unusual or high value"

I think the letter writer sounds like 'premium' means 'single most important factor' as opposed to  'significant influence ranked with personality, stability, whatever.'  But I admit I'm reading in to a Dear Abby letter, always a treacherous passtime  >:D

Ah - this.  Yes, I meant "premium" as "significant influence ranked with many other qualities" not "the most important factor." I don't know and would not respect someone for whom appearance is the only important quality.  I don't personally know anyone like that though.

And WillyNilly, yes, absolutely I would choose the adventurer. But he would also be attractive to me if he were going to be my SO.  Attraction is one of many, many qualities I look for.  I think the definition of "premium" caused some disconnect.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 09:49:00 PM by TurtleDove »

WillyNilly

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #93 on: October 22, 2012, 10:14:49 PM »
 :)

thedudeabides

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #94 on: October 22, 2012, 10:58:12 PM »
I really wish guys like this would stop making the rest of us look like Neanderthals.  Attraction is really important, but I don't think he could have found a worse way to express it if he'd actively tried. 

Emmy

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #95 on: October 22, 2012, 11:35:37 PM »
This article may provide an insight or two:  http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200106/why-i-hate-beauty

I also resent the idea that women -- no matter what we look like -- are expected to accept trolls and slobs as life partners.  That is all most people think I deserve.  I'd rather be an old maid with too many cats than a miserable wife.

That article is very interesting and depressing.  It seems many of us (including myself) have known a whiney guy in high school or college that complained of 'no attractive women' to date on a campus full of girls.  It's hard to think of having to compete with actresses who are not only near perfect naturally, but have the benefit of plastic surgery, good lighting, and airbrushing.  I think Hollywood may have this effect on some men, but I don't think the vast majority of the population expects to get a supermodel look a like.  As a woman, I can look at TV images of Brad Pitt and other Hollywood standards, yet still think guys I run into everyday are attractive (and in many cases more attractive).  Besides a few whiney guys in college, most men I know find several women who aren't models attractive.

I think the Hollywood idea of reality can carry over into other areas.  For example, do some women expect guys to be like those in romantic comedies (I know from DH that it is unlikely a real guy would behave that way) or to be taken on fancy expensive dates with the guy always footing the bill because that's what TV and movies often show a guy doing when he is interested in a woman?

mbbored

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #96 on: October 23, 2012, 02:19:53 AM »
Put me in the camp of considering physical attractiveness to be important, along with an active lifestyle. However, what I find attractive only matters to me: I can not demand that of every man. This letter writer has every right to want to find an attractive mate, however he can't lecture every woman that they need to be more attractive to his tastes!

Miss Unleaded

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #97 on: October 23, 2012, 05:47:42 AM »
I think it was the last part: 'Most single men I know also put a premium on a woman's appearance. Why don't women understand this?' that really highlights that he is an obnoxious jerk.  It's one thing to want a partner who is attractive; nothing wrong with that.  But he apparently can't find this elusive attractive woman and writes to Abby to scold all women for failing to live up to his standards. I suspect the problem is with his standards being extremely unrealistic and his attitude totally obnoxious.  I think Abby nailed it in her response.

If a woman had written:

Quote
I'm looking for a very rich man to accompany me through life. Most single women I know also put a premium on a man's bank balance. Why don't men understand this? Where would you suggest finding a suitable partner for someone in my situation? -- MR.

Would anyone defend it?

LifeOnPluto

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #98 on: October 23, 2012, 05:53:32 AM »
I think it's interesting how he said he wanted "a very attractive woman", rather than "a fit and healthy woman". To me, that suggests that he is looking for the type of narrowly defined beauty that society today deems is the 'in' look.

For example, if he met a lady who exercised regularly and was very healthy, but had a plain face, glasses and frizzy hair, would he want to date her? Judging from the tone of his letter, I doubt it.

At any rate, I don't know what he was hoping to achieve with his letter. Did he really think Abby would agree with him, and exhort all her female readers to pay heed?


Two Ravens

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #99 on: October 23, 2012, 07:08:26 AM »
I think it's interesting how he said he wanted "a very attractive woman", rather than "a fit and healthy woman". To me, that suggests that he is looking for the type of narrowly defined beauty that society today deems is the 'in' look.

For example, if he met a lady who exercised regularly and was very healthy, but had a plain face, glasses and frizzy hair, would he want to date her? Judging from the tone of his letter, I doubt it.

At any rate, I don't know what he was hoping to achieve with his letter. Did he really think Abby would agree with him, and exhort all her female readers to pay heed?

I think that's what the guy's bemoaning. If that lady who exercised regularly "understood men," she'd get her hair chemically straightened, get lasik, never leave her house without makeup, and maybe some rhinoplasty. Geez, why don't women understand this?  ???

Venus193

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #100 on: October 23, 2012, 07:25:07 AM »

That article is very interesting and depressing.  It seems many of us (including myself) have known a whiney guy in high school or college that complained of 'no attractive women' to date on a campus full of girls.  It's hard to think of having to compete with actresses who are not only near perfect naturally, but have the benefit of plastic surgery, good lighting, and airbrushing.  I think Hollywood may have this effect on some men, but I don't think the vast majority of the population expects to get a supermodel look a like.  As a woman, I can look at TV images of Brad Pitt and other Hollywood standards, yet still think guys I run into everyday are attractive (and in many cases more attractive).  Besides a few whiney guys in college, most men I know find several women who aren't models attractive.

I think the Hollywood idea of reality can carry over into other areas.  For example, do some women expect guys to be like those in romantic comedies (I know from DH that it is unlikely a real guy would behave that way) or to be taken on fancy expensive dates with the guy always footing the bill because that's what TV and movies often show a guy doing when he is interested in a woman?

When I first started in the ad business I got a dozen great magazines on comp.  My college buddy was still single and lived in my building, so he got the men's magazines I received.  One Playboy issue had a photo spread of Jake LaMotta's ex, Vikki who was definitely over 40 and had obviously had a fairly common surgical augmentation.  He refused to believe this.

Re your question regarding romantic comedies, most of us would probably like to find a man like Patrick Dempsey in Made of Honor or Hugh Jackman in Kate and Leopold, but know this is impossible.  Most men don't make this kind of effort for women and thanks to men like Dear Abby's LW, many women don't feel worthy of it.

Men paying the restaurant bill still happens because that is one of the few acceptable ways to express masculinity these days.  Let's face it, nobody wants to go to war, we don't have to hunt mammoths anymore for survival, and not everybody can play sports well.  That leaves money and being a "player."

Jones

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #101 on: October 23, 2012, 08:01:51 AM »
As I've gotten to pushing 30, I've noticed some of my joints hurt, and are not as responsive when I exercise as they were at 20. Makes me wonder what another decade's going to do to my poor left ankle and right wrist.

Dr. F.

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #102 on: October 23, 2012, 09:32:06 AM »
Dear Obnoxious Letter Writer,

I do not exist to be good enough for you.

Sincerely,

A reasonably fit, reasonably attractive single woman in your age range

Corvid

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #103 on: October 23, 2012, 09:36:41 AM »
I think it was the last part: 'Most single men I know also put a premium on a woman's appearance. Why don't women understand this?' that really highlights that he is an obnoxious jerk.  It's one thing to want a partner who is attractive; nothing wrong with that.  But he apparently can't find this elusive attractive woman and writes to Abby to scold all women for failing to live up to his standards.

Yeah, really.  So he has particular standards of attractiveness.  That's his business.  Writing to a nationally published advice column whining about how women are falling down on the job by not living up to his standards of attractiveness?  That puts him into jerk territory.  Here's a news flash for him - it's possible that many women DO understand "this" but appealing to him and his single buddies isn't a priority for them.

poundcake

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #104 on: October 23, 2012, 09:59:47 AM »
Dear Obnoxious Letter Writer,

I do not exist to be good enough for you.

Sincerely,

A reasonably fit, reasonably attractive single woman in your age range

Where is the "jumping up and down, clapping and cheering" smilie?