Author Topic: thank you, Dear Abby!  (Read 19114 times)

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TurtleDove

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2012, 01:36:40 PM »
Maybe its just my social circles, but not too many young, hot, gym-going, appearance-prioritizing women I know would ever in a million years consider dating a guy with 2 teenage kids. Maybe his problem isn't that the women aren't out there, its that don't want to met *him*.

Heck I'm not even hot, just average pretty, not thin but fit, and in my late 30's and I had my choice of suitors up until I took myself out of the game at 35ish. I just got married to a 40 year old. Definitely my age group. I absolutely had no interests in a guy with ex-wife & kid baggage! And none of my single girlfriends are keen on it either.


WillyNilly, I love this because this very closely describes me and my SO.  I have a relatively tragic past (divorced and a widow) and a four year old (I am 39).  I had never dated anyone with kids and absolutely did not want to...until I connected with my SO who is the father of three (20, 18 and 15 - he is 47 and got divorced 8 years ago).  One of the things we find attractive about the other is a sense of adventure and always wanting to be our best selves, which yes, includes physical appearance. 

Twik

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2012, 01:37:44 PM »
People right now are chasing "attractive" as defined in an incredibly narrow way, and refusing to even consider someone attractive if they aren't supermodel thin and young.

What people do you refer to?  I am sure some people do this, but I see the vast majority of people happily dating or coupled.  I am not supermodel thin, and I am not young, but I am considered to be attractive.  My sister is supermodel thin and tall, but she is not young and she is considered to be attractive.  I have friends of various ages and sizes and shapes and every single one is considered attractive, if not by everyone, at least by her SO. I don't personally know anyone who would fit into your statement, and I would venture a guess that physical attractiveness is very important to most of my friends.

Of course I don't mean everyone. But the Dear Abby poster clearly has a very limited view of what is attractive, and wishes that women "be aware of it".  And he's not the only complaining that there are so few 10s around.

There is a difference between, "My partner must, first of all, be 'very' attractive," and "my partner must be attractive to me." Of course we don't expect people to spend their lives with someone who repels them sexually. What the current problem is, is that many people are unnecessarily defining "attractive to me," as "must look like the folks in PEOPLE Magazine".  Which is why the Dear Abby poster finds himself unable to find women to meet his standard. He is using a very objective standard ("so thin, so wrinkle-free, so muscular"), not a subjective one.

Venus193 linked to a very interesting article, that studies show that the more people are exposed to "beautiful people" images (which are, in most cases, highly doctored anyway), the less attractive they find the people around them in real life. This is, I think, causing a lot of heartache and frustration for people such as the Dear Abby poster. He's not really asking, "Where can I find a woman who keeps herself in good shape," (answer, as Abby says, is try your local gym or location where active people hang out,) it's "where can I find a Megan Fox lookalike? Because I am entitled to nothing less."
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

WillyNilly

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2012, 01:48:10 PM »
^ Hey Twik I agree with you for the most part, but I gotta say do you read People magazine? They are actually huge on featuring "regular" people, and celebrates people's personalities as beautiful.  I think you meant Vogue or InStyle or something, that focus' on the physically beautiful people.  :D

poundcake

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2012, 01:51:37 PM »
I'm just going to go out on a limb here and guess that this guy doesn't exactly look like George Clooney.

Aeris

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2012, 01:54:16 PM »
I'm just going to go out on a limb here and guess that this guy doesn't exactly look like George Clooney.

Or make what George Clooney makes.

poundcake

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2012, 02:03:06 PM »
I'm just going to go out on a limb here and guess that this guy doesn't exactly look like George Clooney.

Or make what George Clooney makes.

And would probably call us shallow and vapid golddiggers for even mentioning such a thing.

Just Lori

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2012, 02:10:03 PM »
I'm sorry, but did Twik just mention Scrabble?  That's so, so, unTwiklike!

Anyhow, I find that most people's standards for physical attraction broaden as they mature.  I was all about the broad shoulders and six-pack abs when I was in my 20s, but 20 years later I find myself attracted more to the personalities who make me laugh and accept me, faults and all.  Most of the other 40something women I know feel the same way.  Don't get me wrong. I appreciate a pretty man (Google Matt Bomer), but I'm attracted to the whole package.

That's why I'm afraid the letter writer may be setting himself up for disappointment. Again, I'm basing this on the middle-aged women I know, but I've found that women need a partner who can offer more than just a pretty exterior.  I don't know enough about the letter writer to form an opinion, but unless he has more than just a nice income and a six-pack abdomen, he's not going to make a woman happy. 

Twik

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2012, 02:23:52 PM »
I'm sorry, but did Twik just mention Scrabble?  That's so, so, unTwiklike!

What can I say? He had "it".  ;D

^ Hey Twik I agree with you for the most part, but I gotta say do you read People magazine? They are actually huge on featuring "regular" people, and celebrates people's personalities as beautiful.  I think you meant Vogue or InStyle or something, that focus' on the physically beautiful people.  :D

True. I haven't read much PEOPLE recently (it's what I call a hairdresser mag, and my current hairdresser stocks National Geographics instead), but I do recall that they had expanded their view of what were "interesting people" to more than celebrities. Which, in a way, is related to our topic, I think.
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

Onyx_TKD

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2012, 02:40:15 PM »
I honestly don't understand the strong negative feelings this topic seems to stir in some posters whenever the subject comes up.  Everyone is attracted to different things and some of us find physical attractiveness important.  Substitute any other requirement for physical attractiveness and it's suddenly okay. 

"I'm looking for a car buff to accompany me through life. Most single men I know also put a premium on motor vehicle knowledge and trivia. Why don't women understand this? Where would you suggest finding a suitable partner for someone in my situation?"

Should people date people they are not attracted to?

I don't think that's what's annoying people, it's his attitude. So for example, I'm attractive to red heads and luckily live in an area full of them and am dating a red headed hunk.  :) No one (I think) would say there was anything wrong with me stating I'd only date red heads because I only find them attractive. (Not the case, I'm all equal opportunities  8) lol ) However, if I lived in a area, where say there wasn't many red headed, people certainly would have an issue if I stated all men should dye their hair to suit my perception of attractiveness.

Nowhere in the post does the LW say that women should change to meet his criteria. Rather he notes that he's not meeting women that meet his criteria and asks where he might meet women who do.  I think posters are reading meaning into words that aren't there. 

The only part of the letter I have any issue at all is, "Why don't women understand this?" and to this I would reply, "Why don't you get that it's not a priority for a lot of people. Keep looking for someone for whom it is a priority."

Here's where I had issues with what he said,
"no longer take care of themselves".- I highly doubt every single woman he has ever met in their 40's no longer take care of themselves. So i can only read it that they don't take care of themselves by his standards.
 "a very attractive woman to accompany me through life"- he didn't need to emphasis this with the very
"Most single men I know also put a premium on a woman's appearance. Why don't women understand this?" - Ergo women should change to meet his criteria.

Granted my reading is based on my interpretation of the various phrases he uses but that's always going to be the case.

Exactly. The bolded quote especially sums it up for me. He appears to believe that every woman's priority is to attract a single man, and that not meeting his standards of attractive means they're doing it wrong. Many of these women may not be looking for a romantic partner at all, and if they are, there is an infinite variety of tastes out there. What he considers "letting themselves go" may be attractive to other single guys. The onus is not on his female acquaintances to provide him with a dating pool to his tastes.

If he actually wants to meet attractive women, then IMO the first thing he should do is get it through his head that no one owes it to him to meet his beauty standards, no matter how much of a "catch" he believes himself to be. Only dating people you find physically attractive is perfectly reasonable, but you just have to make your peace with the fact that you may be alone for a good while until you find someone attractive who's also attracted to you. Whining about not having enough attractive people to choose from isn't very appealing.

Yvaine

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2012, 02:45:30 PM »
If he actually wants to meet attractive women, then IMO the first thing he should do is get it through his head that no one owes it to him to meet his beauty standards, no matter how much of a "catch" he believes himself to be. Only dating people you find physically attractive is perfectly reasonable, but you just have to make your peace with the fact that you may be alone for a good while until you find someone attractive who's also attracted to you. Whining about not having enough attractive people to choose from isn't very appealing.

Yeah, that's exactly it. Everyone has the right to "filter" their dating search by whatever criteria they find important, whether they are set on having a partner who looks just so, or a partner who is X religion, or a partner who likes to watch bad B-movies. But the catch is that every non-negotiable dealbreaker limits the size of your dating pool. You can't have it both ways--you can either have stringent criteria or you can expect everyone who's breathing to live up to your standards.  ;D

Twik

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2012, 02:50:57 PM »
Yes. I think this guy's letter boils down to, "Dear Abby, I can't find enough attractive women to date. Spread the word to the women of the world to improve themselves for me, will you? Because they're really letting me down."

Dude, you're stuck with the world you've got. Learn to make peace with it.
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

TurtleDove

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2012, 02:57:37 PM »
I also resent the idea that women -- no matter what we look like -- are expected to accept trolls and slobs as life partners.  That is all most people think I deserve.  I'd rather be an old maid with too many cats than a miserable wife.

I have never heard this idea, at least not from any source I respect.  I am not sure who you are including in "most people" but I wouldn't value the opinion of someone who said I needed to accept a troll or slob as a life partner.  You shouldn't either!  As an aside, though, how is your description of "trolls and slobs" all that different from the letter writers words about women? Did the trolls and slobs let themselves go?  Just something to think about.

petal

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2012, 02:59:24 PM »
Eh, I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting a partner to whom you are attracted.  His letter didn't endear him to me, but the idea that he wants someone fit and vibrant is not offensive in and of itself, nor do I find it shallow.

the last person i was attracted to was of fairly stocky build with a beer gut.  i thought he was gorgeous.  still do

and recently i felt an attraction to someone who was bald and of solid build

Kaypeep

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2012, 03:06:02 PM »
There are way too many movies and tv shows with a-typical/goofy men who have youthful, hot wives and girlfriends(According to Jim, King of Queens, Alan on Three and Half Men, anything done with Adam Sandler.)  But where are the movies with hot men and a-typical/goofy/average wives???  I honestly think these movies and TV shows are deluding men from reality.  Not that people should aim low, but they think that if Jim Belushi or Kevin James can get the pretty girl, why can't they?

Garden Goblin

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Re: thank you, Dear Abby!
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2012, 03:15:57 PM »
Should people date people they are not attracted to?

I'm attracted to men who can bake.  What the heck is it with men these days?  It's like, most are content just to buy their bread from a store in a pre-sliced, mass-produced loaf.  And even the ones who appreciate good bread don't routinely get up at 4 in the morning to ensure there are fresh English muffins for me?  Don't they understand it is their responsibility to make sure they are, each and every one, attractive to me so that I can pick and choose between them at my leisure without putting forth any effort?  I mean, it's like you expect me to have to get up, get dressed, and take some courses at the local cooking school in order to meet men that match my personal standards. 

Why should I go to that much effort?  Society should change to suit me.  Bunch of lazy, good-for nothings just letting themselves eat inferior bread products.