thank you, Dear Abby!

[siamesecat2965]

Yes. I think this guy's letter boils down to, "Dear Abby, I can't find enough attractive women to date. Spread the word to the women of the world to improve themselves for me, will you? Because they're really letting me down."

Dude, you're stuck with the world you've got. Learn to make peace with it.

Yes, that's why I posted it! To me, he came off as someone who was whining about how most women in his age group let themselves go, and he couldnt' find someone who was supermodel gorgeous enough to suit his taste.

I know for me, there has to be some sort of attraction, but its not always going to be looks.  It may be intelligence, sense of humor, sharing the same likes and dislikes etc.  For example, I'm a HUGE sports fan, football, baseball and hockey. What's funny is I think back to almost all the guys I've dated and none of them have really been  into sports.  I'm more of a fan now than I was, so at this point in my life, d@ting someone who doens't like sports might not work for me.

I have no illusions that someone I end up with will be drop dead gorgeous.  He might be to me, but not the rest of the world.  Or maybe he is, and that's fine, but I won't base what I'm looking for on that...there's a whole lot more to people than just their looks.

[Garden Goblin]

I am not sure who you are including in "most people" but I wouldn't value the opinion of someone who said I needed to accept a troll or slob as a life partner.  You shouldn't either!  As an aside, though, how is your description of "trolls and slobs" all that different from the letter writers words about women? Did the trolls and slobs let themselves go?  Just something to think about.

If I had a nickel for every time somebody said 'why don't you give XY a chance?  If you don't lower your standards, you are going to end up some crazy old lady with 50 cats.  You should be willing to settle for Mr. GoodEnough instead of waiting around for some Mr. Perfect who satisfies your (very reasonable) criteria.', I'd never have to work again.

I'm married to Mr. Perfect.  We have two cats.  Mr. GoodEnough still hasn't figured out that the reason nobody likes him is he is a jerk.

[TurtleDove]

If I had a nickel for every time somebody said 'why don't you give XY a chance?  If you don't lower your standards, you are going to end up some crazy old lady with 50 cats.  You should be willing to settle for Mr. GoodEnough instead of waiting around for some Mr. Perfect who satisfies your (very reasonable) criteria.', I'd never have to work again.

I'm confused. Isn't this what people are saying to the letter writer? 

[Hawkwatcher]

I also resent the idea that women -- no matter what we look like -- are expected to accept trolls and slobs as life partners.  That is all most people think I deserve.  I'd rather be an old maid with too many cats than a miserable wife.

I have never heard this idea, at least not from any source I respect.  I am not sure who you are including in "most people" but I wouldn't value the opinion of someone who said I needed to accept a troll or slob as a life partner.  You shouldn't either!  As an aside, though, how is your description of "trolls and slobs" all that different from the letter writers words about women? Did the trolls and slobs let themselves go?  Just something to think about.

I knew a guy in college who was always criticizing women for being shallow and refusing to date "nice" men.  He would then turn around and rant about "fat chicks" who obviously lazy and immoral.  He argued that if they were not lazy and immoral, they would not be fat.  I would ask him about "fat men" and he argued that he only cared about fat women because he was attracted to women. Unfortunately, I have encountered similar ideas in other places.

I have no problem with people wanting to date attractive people.  I actually no problem with people who only want to date supermodels.  But I agree with Yvaine, you have to live with the consequences every time you limit your dating pool.   

[poundcake]

There are way too many movies and tv shows with a-typical/goofy men who have youthful, hot wives and girlfriends(According to Jim, King of Queens, Alan on Three and Half Men, anything done with Adam Sandler.)  But where are the movies with hot men and a-typical/goofy/average wives???  I honestly think these movies and TV shows are deluding men from reality.  Not that people should aim low, but they think that if Jim Belushi or Kevin James can get the pretty girl, why can't they?

Most 3.5s in town thinks they deserves a 9. And if he deigns to settle for an 8, she better be grateful.

[Moray]

If I had a nickel for every time somebody said 'why don't you give XY a chance?  If you don't lower your standards, you are going to end up some crazy old lady with 50 cats.  You should be willing to settle for Mr. GoodEnough instead of waiting around for some Mr. Perfect who satisfies your (very reasonable) criteria.', I'd never have to work again.

I'm confused. Isn't this what people are saying to the letter writer?

No. That's not what the majority are saying.

You seem fixated on the fact that it isn't wrong to want a partner with [x quality] and to actively seek them out. That's not why the LW is out of line. The LW is out of line for whining "I want [x quality], why doesn't everyone do what I want so they're all dateable (according to my standards)?"

There's a pretty big difference between saying "I prefer blondes that like to juggle" and whining "Why won't everyone dye their hair blonde and take 'Juggling for Dummies'??! There are no good women left. Whaaaaaah!"

[Cat-Fu]

If I had a nickel for every time somebody said 'why don't you give XY a chance?  If you don't lower your standards, you are going to end up some crazy old lady with 50 cats.  You should be willing to settle for Mr. GoodEnough instead of waiting around for some Mr. Perfect who satisfies your (very reasonable) criteria.', I'd never have to work again.

I'm confused. Isn't this what people are saying to the letter writer?

No. That's not what the majority are saying.

You seem fixated on the fact that it isn't wrong to want a partner with [x quality] and to actively seek them out. That's not why the LW is out of line. The LW is out of line for whining "I want [x quality], why doesn't everyone do what I want so they're all dateable (according to my standards)?"

There's a pretty big difference between saying "I prefer blondes that like to juggle" and whining "Why won't everyone dye their hair blonde and take 'Juggling for Dummies'??! There are no good women left. Whaaaaaah!"

Not to mention, expecting a supermodel isn't *reasonable* criteria.

I see nothing wrong with wanting to date someone who is physically attractive. My DH is gorgeous and that's why I pursued him in the first place. I stuck with him because on top of that he is brilliant, charming, hilarious, and completely weird.

But it's not reasonable to expect your dating pool to change itself to meet your standards. If you don't like what's there, you look elsewhere instead of mansplaining to women how they need to work to fit your beauty ideal.

[Yvaine]

If I had a nickel for every time somebody said 'why don't you give XY a chance?  If you don't lower your standards, you are going to end up some crazy old lady with 50 cats.  You should be willing to settle for Mr. GoodEnough instead of waiting around for some Mr. Perfect who satisfies your (very reasonable) criteria.', I'd never have to work again.

I'm confused. Isn't this what people are saying to the letter writer?

I think the trouble is that some people--and we don't know if the LW is one of them because we have no idea whether he's as conventionally gorgeous as the women he prefers--don't want to lower their standards (which is reasonable) but think that everyone else has the duty to lower their standards to include them. I've met guys, for example, who were not themselves fit (which in and of itself is nobody's business) but expected women to have a particular shape that requires many hours in the gym. If you're demanding a certain degree of effort from your partners, it seems reasonable that you be willing to put in the same amount of effort yourself (whether in the same area of life or in some other area that your partner cares about).

[greencat]

It's a good thing I don't have an advice column.  I'd have lit that man's tail on fire - so many double standards at play in his attitude I don't even know where to start.  The double standard many men of all ages have about their physical appearance versus the physical appearance of women they're willing to date infuriates me.

[Sharnita]

Should people date people they are not attracted to?

I'm attracted to men who can bake.  What the heck is it with men these days?  It's like, most are content just to buy their bread from a store in a pre-sliced, mass-produced loaf.  And even the ones who appreciate good bread don't routinely get up at 4 in the morning to ensure there are fresh English muffins for me?  Don't they understand it is their responsibility to make sure they are, each and every one, attractive to me so that I can pick and choose between them at my leisure without putting forth any effort?  I mean, it's like you expect me to have to get up, get dressed, and take some courses at the local cooking school in order to meet men that match my personal standards. 

Why should I go to that much effort?  Society should change to suit me.  Bunch of lazy, good-for nothings just letting themselves eat inferior bread products.

If you do find one, I will fight you for him.

[TurtleDove]

You seem fixated on the fact that it isn't wrong to want a partner with [x quality] and to actively seek them out. That's not why the LW is out of line. The LW is out of line for whining "I want [x quality], why doesn't everyone do what I want so they're all dateable (according to my standards)?"

We are talking about different things.  Some people are saying that the LW should give everyone a chance.  Some people are upset that people advise them to give everyone a chance. I am pointing out that there seems to be a double standard there.

I did not see that the LW expected people to change to suit him.  Not at all.  He simply is looking for people who suit him.  As I said before, his letter did not endear him to me, but I don't think he was personally attacking all of the women in his area or expecting them to change.

CatFu, not even the LW expects a supermodel.  I think there's quite a bit being read into his letter.

[TurtleDove]

It's a good thing I don't have an advice column.  I'd have lit that man's tail on fire - so many double standards at play in his attitude I don't even know where to start.  The double standard many men of all ages have about their physical appearance versus the physical appearance of women they're willing to date infuriates me.

The LW described himself as attractive, as I recall.

[Moray]

TD, Here is the objectionable part of the man's letter: "I'm looking for a very attractive woman to accompany me through life. Most single men I know also put a premium on a woman's appearance. Why don't women understand this? Where would you suggest finding a suitable partner for someone in my situation?"


That, to me, very clearly says that he is lamenting that so many women just don't "understand" that they aren't up to snuff.

[Twik]

Well, he may not be expecting women to change, but he clearly wants them to:

Most single men I know also put a premium on a woman's appearance. Why don't women understand this?

And I'm sure he doesn't expect a supermodel. Just someone who looks like one.

A nice, non-offensive letter would be, "I'm looking for women who are fit and active. Where's the best place to meet them?" No whining about why women won't all be gorgeous just for him, but an actual question that Abby might be able to answer.

[audrey1962]

If you don't like what's there, you look elsewhere instead of mansplaining to women how they need to work to fit your beauty ideal.

I completely agree. That's why I liked Abby's answer: she was telling him where he should look.