thank you, Dear Abby!

[Betelnut]

I don't get why the guy wrote into Dear Abby.  I mean, he's having trouble finding a partner.  So what? It just doesn't seem like a problem worth writing home about much less to an advice columnist.  Therefore, I think the main thrust of the letter is to criticize women, not to find a solution to his "problem."

[Moray]

Well, he may not be expecting women to change, but he clearly wants them to:

Most single men I know also put a premium on a woman's appearance. Why don't women understand this?

And I'm sure he doesn't expect a supermodel. Just someone who looks like one.

A nice, non-offensive letter would be, "I'm looking for women who are fit and active. Where's the best place to meet them?" No whining about why women won't all be gorgeous just for him, but an actual question that Abby might be able to answer.

Exactly. If he'd asked "I'm looking for women who are fit and active. Where's the best place to meet them?" without all the judgy-pants nonsense, he would have received a reasonable answer, which is that he needs to seek out like-minded groups of individuals, by joining classes, investigating local meetups for people interested in [x activity], etc.

[Jones]

Should people date people they are not attracted to?

I'm attracted to men who can bake.  What the heck is it with men these days?  It's like, most are content just to buy their bread from a store in a pre-sliced, mass-produced loaf.  And even the ones who appreciate good bread don't routinely get up at 4 in the morning to ensure there are fresh English muffins for me?  Don't they understand it is their responsibility to make sure they are, each and every one, attractive to me so that I can pick and choose between them at my leisure without putting forth any effort?  I mean, it's like you expect me to have to get up, get dressed, and take some courses at the local cooking school in order to meet men that match my personal standards. 

Why should I go to that much effort?  Society should change to suit me.  Bunch of lazy, good-for nothings just letting themselves eat inferior bread products.

If you do find one, I will fight you for him.

Stay away from my husband's buns!

  

[TurtleDove]

To be clear, I am not saying the letter is not objectionable - I said from the beginning I didn't like it (actually, I said it did not endear him to me).  I am saying that some posters are sharing similar views expressed by the LW, for example, pointing out that they should not have to lower standards or settle.  I find this interesting. In villianizing the LW (and again, I didn't like the letter, I just don't think he's pure evil as some posters do) some posters are lamenting about society in general and then essentially expressing the same things he did.

[Garden Goblin]

If I had a nickel for every time somebody said 'why don't you give XY a chance?  If you don't lower your standards, you are going to end up some crazy old lady with 50 cats.  You should be willing to settle for Mr. GoodEnough instead of waiting around for some Mr. Perfect who satisfies your (very reasonable) criteria.', I'd never have to work again.

I'm confused. Isn't this what people are saying to the letter writer?

No.  That isn't what anyone is saying.

He isn't obligated to date anyone.  Nobody is pressuring him to date someone he is unattracted to.

We are saying that nobody, least of all 'women in his age group', is in any way obligated to alter themselves to fit his view of what constitutes 'attractive'.

A few people are stating that limiting yourself to a very narrow and unreasonably high standard of 'physically attractive' will negatively impact your odds of finding someone who is attractive in all the ways that matter more in the long run.

If you do find one, I will fight you for him.

Too late, the ring is on his finger and he is mine mine mine all mine.

[Sharnita]

then send him out, that he might teach his brethren.

[TurtleDove]

Nowhere in the post does the LW say that women should change to meet his criteria. Rather he notes that he's not meeting women that meet his criteria and asks where he might meet women who do.  I think posters are reading meaning into words that aren't there.  

The only part of the letter I have any issue at all is, "Why don't women understand this?" and to this I would reply, "Why don't you get that it's not a priority for a lot of people. Keep looking for someone for whom it is a priority."

POD. 

[Twik]

Personally, I don't think a rational person writes to Dear Abby seriously asking her to tell him where he can find "very" attractive women - what does he expect, directions to "Babes R Us"?

Annoyed people may write to Dear Abby as an indirect way of chastising women for not being what they want.

[C0mputerGeek]

Eh, I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting a partner to whom you are attracted.  His letter didn't endear him to me, but the idea that he wants someone fit and vibrant is not offensive in and of itself, nor do I find it shallow.

I'll agree with you. My aunt is fifty and quite fit. She works out with a personal trainer and has quite the physique. One of the qualities she looks for is someone who is in as good a shape as she is. Honestly, if she can require it of the men she dates, then the letter writer get to as well. What's sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose.

I also don't find the letter to Dear Abby all that objectionable, but that's because I am used to my aunt. Everyone has standards of what they're attracted to. For some people it's more mental (e.g. personality traits) than physical.

[TurtleDove]

I also don't find the letter to Dear Abby all that objectionable, but that's because I am used to my aunt. Everyone has standards of what they're attracted to. For some people it's more mental (e.g. personality traits) than physical.

This.

For me, it is very difficult to separate the mental/personality traits from the physical because I think one informs the other.  I am very attracted to people who like to be active and adventurous and who are up for anything, who will jump out a plane with me and run an obstacle course with me and play in a giant maze with my daughter - the ones who say "let's do it!" instead of "it requires effort, I'd rather watch TV" - that's the mental (not a comprehensive list by any means).  The physical aspect is that people with that mentality tend to be pretty fit.  Am I attracted to the physical?  Yep.  But I am also attracted to the mental aspects that drive a person to strive to be his physical best.

[Twik]

Eh, I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting a partner to whom you are attracted.  His letter didn't endear him to me, but the idea that he wants someone fit and vibrant is not offensive in and of itself, nor do I find it shallow.

I'll agree with you. My aunt is fifty and quite fit. She works out with a personal trainer and has quite the physique. One of the qualities she looks for is someone who is in as good a shape as she is. Honestly, if she can require it of the men she dates, then the letter writer get to as well. What's sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose.

As long as she doesn't chastise other people for not being what she wants.

Let's say the writer had chosen some other trait, such as intelligence, and written, "Frankly, most of the women of my generation are poorly read and boring to talk to. Why don't women get that they need to make an effort to sound intelligent, or men just won't be interested?"

Would not most women find that offensive?

[TurtleDove]

Let's say the writer had chosen some other trait, such as intelligence, and written, "Frankly, most of the women of my generation are poorly read and boring to talk to. Why don't women get that they need to make an effort to sound intelligent, or men just won't be interested?"

Would not most women find that offensive?

I wouldn't think it affected me or my friends in the slightest.

[Moray]

Let's say the writer had chosen some other trait, such as intelligence, and written, "Frankly, most of the women of my generation are poorly read and boring to talk to. Why don't women get that they need to make an effort to sound intelligent, or men just won't be interested?"

Would not most women find that offensive?

I wouldn't think it affected me or my friends in the slightest.

It's not that it "affects" anyone; it's the attitude (that others are wrong for not being up to snuff) that is offensive.

[Venus193]

I've met guys, for example, who were not themselves fit (which in and of itself is nobody's business) but expected women to have a particular shape that requires many hours in the gym. If you're demanding a certain degree of effort from your partners, it seems reasonable that you be willing to put in the same amount of effort yourself (whether in the same area of life or in some other area that your partner cares about).

Truer words were never written about this.

The thing is, if Dear Abby's letter-writer had half the brains he should he would have known that going to a health club would put him in the company of "fit" women.  However....

...perhaps he is not so fit as he claims and fears being compared to the men he would see in said health club.

[poundcake]

Let's say the writer had chosen some other trait, such as intelligence, and written, "Frankly, most of the women of my generation are poorly read and boring to talk to. Why don't women get that they need to make an effort to sound intelligent, or men just won't be interested?"

Would not most women find that offensive?

I wouldn't think it affected me or my friends in the slightest.

It's not that it "affects" anyone; it's the attitude (that others are wrong for not being up to snuff) that is offensive.

Considering the problems with gender roles and attitudes re: women in general, I think it indicates a score of problems. Again, this isn't some guy saying "I want someone fun and fit because I like to be active." Or someone saying "I'm generally more attracted to redheads." This is a man expressing an attitude that women, in general, exist to fulfill his very specific physical requirements, and the ones who don't are to be chastised for it, because that is "what men want." Or, in layman's terms, it's sexist as hell.