Best friend's BF thinks I'm too close *update post #23, 43

[Eden]

I wouldn't tell Jill. IME, nothing good comes from meddling with a couple like that.

I think you should tell Jack to take his concerns up with Jill. Let him reveal himself to her and/or shut up about it to you. And don't change a thing about your friendship with Jill unless Jill says she has a problem with it.

I agree with this very much. I've known plenty of people who were more likely to challenge a friend or acquaintance than their significant other. Jack may see OP as the path of least resistance as opposed to trying to communicate his concerns to Jill. He's taking advantage of his friendship with the OP to try to get the outcome he wants. That's not healthy and it's ultimately not the best way to work out his relationship with Jill but it also doesn't necessarily mean he's trying to isolate Jill or anything more subversive.

Regardless of whether or not his intentions are nefarious, Jill could resent OP for telling what Jack said or even feel the need to defend Jack. The only way I'd share details or opinions about Jack is if I Jill very directly asked what I thought about a specific behavior or pattern of behavior from Jack. I'd tell Jack that I don't mind listening to my friends' relationship issues but that I do not involve myself and if he wants something, he needs to talk to Jill about it.

[sweetonsno]

Creepy. Where's the shudder emoticon when you need it?

Anyway, I do think Jack is out of line. However, I don't think you should "warn" Jill about it. My main concern is that if you tell Jill about it and "tattle" on Jack, he can easily use it as ammo if his mission is in fact to isolate her. He can say that you are lying and trying to sabotage the relationship and make him look bad. Basically, I don't think you want to put her in a position where she might be confronting him.

I like the suggestion of asking Jill whether you're leaning on her too much, especially if you know that you are looking for her support a lot more than usual. We all go through tough times, and friends and family are there for us (just like we'll be there for them). I don't think there's anything wrong with checking in with Jill in a "I just want to make sure that I'm not distracting you from the other important relationships in your life" kind of conversation. If she says no, well, great. If she says yes, you two can adjust as needed.

As for Jack putting the pressure on you, I think you need to remind him that your relationship with Jill is different from his relationship with Jill. If he has concerns about his relationship with Jill (the amount of time they spend together, living together or not, etc), he needs to bring them up with Jill. You will not try to get Jill to do what he wants to do, and you're not comfortable listening to his venting, as you two aren't close. If he wants to vent, he can talk to his mom or one of his guy friends. Tell him to encourage Jill to bring up her relationship concerns with you if she has them. "Jack, Jill and I have been friends forever. I hope that she feels comfortable bringing it up with me if she has an issue with our relationship. If she does and she isn't telling me, please encourage her to bring it up with me directly."

[Margo]

There's something rather off here.

After a few months together Jack is pressuring Jill to move in. He's tried to get you to put pressure on her as well. When you (wisely IMO) kept out of it he then started trying to get you to spend less time with Jill by saying you were being too clingy and pressuring you to move away from her.

Don't. It sounds horribly as though he is trying to isolate Jill, and it might be advisable to tell her what he's being saying to you.

I agree with all of this except the part about telling Jill outright. If you tell her, and she mentions anything to him, he will potentially redouble his efforts to get rid of you.
If you tell her, and she isn't yet ready to face the implications of how he behaves, she may get defensive and that both makes it easier for him to isolate her (as she may feel disloyal for spending time with you) and makes it harder for her to admit there's a problem and talk about it to you, if and when she needs to.

I think the best thing you can do is to keep on as you have been. Be there for Jill. Listen when she wants to talk. Let * her* raise any issues about Jack. Try to be supportive without being critical, and DO NOT LET HIM PUSH YOU OUT OF HER LIFE. (apologies for shouting)
This may mean developing a very think skin where he is concerned.

[Gwywnnydd]

I concur with the other posters who say this is red-flag behavior on Jack's part.

I also think that you shouldn't tell JIll she needs to back off him, but you could bring up that he said he thought you were taking advantage of her, and ask her if she felt that way.

And don't allow him to push you away. Please, please, don't let him push you away. If it turns out that the red flags have substance, then she'll need supporting friends to disentangle herself.

[Mikayla]

True friends are honest with each other.  Be honest with Jill and tell her what Jack has said/done.  In the end, you  need to let her make her own decision but she can't make an informed decision without all the information.

POD.

If Jill was a casual friend, I'd feel very differently.  But for BFFs, I would be completely honest and I'd expect the same from my closest friends.  That's what we're all here for.

OP, I don't think your text was wrong per se, but I do think you should stop taking your cues from Jack.  And I also agree with the comment upthread that this type of thing should be a phone call or face to face convo.  You're talking about the nature of your friendship, and that's important enough to have a "real" convo.

[hyzenthlay]

Ok, in all honesty I can see Jack's point.

I have rarely seen anything good come out of commiseration sessions with someone who is totally on your side, and therefore won't be honest with you. It tends to lead to someone thinking they are the one being totally wronged, and that is almost never the case in a relationship.

That said, moving in a serious step and not to be lightly undertaken, and that fact that Jack is pushing so hard, to the extent he is contacting YOU is (I think) a bad sign. Maybe they could have worked out their problems, but it sounds like the relationship may have hit a bad tipping point. Jack sees he is probably going to lose Jill and is getting a bit desperate.

Going forward I'd just try to make sure that your friendship with Jill begins to include more fun times and fewer upset about relationship sessions.

[VorFemme]

Jack may not be hoisting red (get out of this situation NOW) flags - but dang it, he's hoisting yellow (look at what is happening NOW before getting any deeper into this situation) warning flags left & right.

What the OP and Jill are doing is in line with FEMALE friendship boundaries and standards.  It might feel "off" to Jack because he is not female.  The OP's DH seems to be fine with it - I guess he's known more women (mother, aunts, sisters, the OP, etc.) well enough to know that he'd probably rather she talked to a GF than to him about some of the "girly" topics (whether romance, the cravings at "that time of the month", or whatever the topic might be - VorGuy wants me to talk to ANYONE but him when it comes to sewing, quilts, and embroidery - as an example).  I can discuss cooking and baking with him if I bring samples to the conversation......

But for Jack to be so upset over what is really in the normal range for FEMALE friendships and trying to force the OP and Jill to back off to levels on their friendship that he is comfortable with and trying to force the OP to tell Jill that moving in with Jack is a great idea?

Yellow alert - time to gather a lot more information about Jack in general and perhaps his last couple of girl friends in particular......

Because that is way too possessive for a couple who are only dating......

[bonyk]

Not certain that he's a creep, he might just be extremely immature.  However, that's going to cause a lot of heartache in the long run too, so I'd tell your BFF.

Now, just in case he is a creep:

I sent her a text message saying, "If I've been too clingy, I apologize. Just let me know if you need some space." She hasn't replied yet.

How long has it been?  Is it possible that Jack blocked you on her cell?

[kitchcat]

OP here again.

I opted to tell Jill today about what Jack had told me. I tried to keep it as fact-based as possible (simply he said "xyz," no speculation or opinions) and relayed our conversation to her. She was very receptive to all this information and told me flat out that she is pretty sure Jack is jealous of our friendship and may even feel threatened by our closeness. We agreed I would just ignore his comments because Jill has no intentions of "backing off" our friendship. So all in all, things seem to be working out well.

[grannyclampettjr]

I have to agree with Hyzenthlay here.  And vehemently disagree with the poster who said that Jack *needs* to understand female friendships.

The guy I am dating and about to move in with had all three of his long term relationships ruined by female BFFs who meddled and convinced his girlfriends that they could do better.  He feels like he was basically cheated on and betrayed by his girlfriends and their BFFS.  *He*  wanted to be first in their lives, as he was making the woman in his life first, as he is currently doing with me.  Is he perfect?  No.  Nobody is.  But I would have no business essentially bringing a third party into the relationship without his consent. 

And btw, the first woman to betray him in this manner now regrets taking their business outside the relationship and not only calls it her greatest mistake but wishes he was the father of her children. 

So Jack might not be controlling at all--just justifiably hurt by endless airings of dirty laundry.   Wouldn't you be, OP and everybody else? 

[LeveeWoman]

I have to agree with Hyzenthlay here.  And vehemently disagree with the poster who said that Jack *needs* to understand female friendships.

The guy I am dating and about to move in with had all three of his long term relationships ruined by female BFFs who meddled and convinced his girlfriends that they could do better.  He feels like he was basically cheated on and betrayed by his girlfriends and their BFFS.  *He*  wanted to be first in their lives, as he was making the woman in his life first, as he is currently doing with me.  Is he perfect?  No.  Nobody is.  But I would have no business essentially bringing a third party into the relationship without his consent. 

And btw, the first woman to betray him in this manner now regrets taking their business outside the relationship and not only calls it her greatest mistake but wishes he was the father of her children. 

So Jack might not be controlling at all--just justifiably hurt by endless airings of dirty laundry.   Wouldn't you be, OP and everybody else?

Perhaps he also should stop airing his dirty laundry with kitchkat.

[MariaE]

So Jack might not be controlling at all--just justifiably hurt by endless airings of dirty laundry.   Wouldn't you be, OP and everybody else?

Honestly, no. Sometimes it is necessary to bring in a third party... isn't that what couple's counselling is all about?

Of course, I am assuming that this isn't a "Jack bashing" - that I definitely wouldn't be okay with. But a straight-forward talk about issues a couple is having with the goal of getting a less emotional look at it? No, I don't have a problem with that.

[Hmmmmm]

There's something rather off here.

After a few months together Jack is pressuring Jill to move in. He's tried to get you to put pressure on her as well. When you (wisely IMO) kept out of it he then started trying to get you to spend less time with Jill by saying you were being too clingy and pressuring you to move away from her.

Don't. It sounds horribly as though he is trying to isolate Jill, and it might be advisable to tell her what he's being saying to you.

POD to this.  If Jack doesn't want Jill to know what he is saying to you, then he probably shouldn't be saying it.  He didn't confide something to you in confidence, he issued an order to you about a relationship between you and your friend.  If he is willing to try and distance her from you, then he'll try the same with other friends.  She needs to be aware.

[Twik]

So Jack might not be controlling at all--just justifiably hurt by endless airings of dirty laundry.   Wouldn't you be, OP and everybody else?

No, I really wouldn't. If I were asking (indeed, close to demanding) someone move in with me, or make other life-defining choices, I would be very surprised if they discussed it with no one else, particularly if I knew they were unsure of what to do. Unless, of course, I wanted someone who had NO social supports except for me. In which case, I'd be controlling, wouldn't I?

If Jack considers this to be "dirty laundry", there's already a sign of trouble.

And personally, I'd say the biggest sign is that he's demanding she move in with him. Doing so is an act of trust, and intimacy - one may ask for such an act, but not demand it as a right.

[Piratelvr1121]

I agree that this guy sounds controlling and possibly just doesn't get women's friendships.  I don't have a lot of friends, but the ones I do have I'm very close with.  They're like sisters and we're very close.  Like a PP said, there are some times when DH is very glad I have a friend to discuss some subjects with so that I won't talk his ear off about them, like Pirates of the Caribbean or books he's never read and has no interest in.

I try not to bring friends into relationship issues and deal with them with just DH. The only time that they may find out about anything is if they happen to call during or after one and I'm upset.