Author Topic: Update page 2 How do i melt the Social Circle Special Snowflake  (Read 14704 times)

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Margo

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Re: Update page 2 How do i melt the Social Circle Special Snowflake
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2012, 07:00:06 AM »
I agree with all PPs that he is behaving very badlyand that you are absolutely right to stand up to him. If there are others in the group who are also fed up with them it may be worth enlistingtheir support. evwen 2-3 people all saying the 'No' to his mooching will help make it harder for this to be framed as you being the bad guy.

I would also suggest that for future events that you are hosting / organising - don't invite him. Even if you are only inviting members of the group, you don't have to invite *all* the members.
(and if asked why, you have a ready made answer "Well, Moocher is never able to contribute his sahre of the cost / food. I don't want to embarrass him by asking him for something he feels he can't afford, and of course, it would be grossly unfair to eveyone else to expect them to subsidise him, or to let him come without contributing the way eveyone else does")

Where practical, you can also get around this by sorting out money in advance - it's harder to mooch if you're being asked to pony up 3 days before the event, rather than at the ticket barrier .
It's harder with a party - you could try giving very specific assignments (e.g Moocher's invitation says clearly he is responsible for bringing 3 large pizzas, or a 12-pack of beer, rather than eveyone being asked to bring something. And if he shows up without , tell him that he needs to sort it out. and don't let him in if he does not.

If challenged by other members of the group, be firm. Tell them that they are free to support Moocher if they wish, but that you are done supporting him, as it is never reciprocal. He does not pay back people who cover him. Say explicitily that it is unfair for him to be taking from eveyone and never payi ng back, either in cash or kind. And if you are critisied, keep repeating that. "Why are you blaming me? Please explain why you feel I should be paying for Moocher's fun? Why are you not having this conversation with Moocher about his lack of contribution? It feels very unfair that I am being bullied for standing up to someone who is, in effect, stealing from us, individually and as a group , by never paying his way."

Don't be embarrassed about calling him out. He is the one who should be embarrassed, not you.  The same goes for univited people showing up. HE is the one who has been rude, to you as host, and to the uninvited guest. I think in those circumstances you can say to the univited "guest" "I'm so sorry I can't invite you in. as moocher knows[/i], this event is strictly invitation only and it was made clear to all invitees that no extra could be accommodated. I can't make any exceptions as it wouldn't be fair to other guests, who would have liked to bring extra people, to let you in." It's Moocher's problem, let him deal with it.

Emmy

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Re: Update page 2 How do i melt the Social Circle Special Snowflake
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2012, 07:30:23 AM »
I'm wondering what this guy actually contributes to the social group that you feel it won't be easy to cut him out.  It's hard to imagine somebody being so smart, funny, or interesting that it over rides how he treats others.  I really want to know why others are so adamant about keeping him around even if it means turning against somebody who speaks out about his behavior.  He takes advantage of other members, loses his temper when somebody doesn't cave to his unreasonable demands, and other group members are so annoyed that they try to avoid him.  It really doesn't sound as if his company brings anything positive to the group.  If members are avoiding events that have shared expenses or avoiding events all together because of this person, it really sounds as if he is tearing apart the group and changing the dynamics.  Wouldn't it be more pleasant for everybody to have him gone?

The people who want to have a relationship with him can continue to have one.  If they choose to invite him to group events, it is up to them to cover for him.  You said there are others who feel the same way you do about him as you do.  It's sad that members of your group turned against somebody who had the courage to stand up to this person's awful behavior rather than the person causing the problem.  Maybe you can get closer to people in the group who are like minded on this issue so if the group breaks up over this, you'll still be in touch with members who didn't want to put up with moocher.

cocacola35

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Re: Update page 2 How do i melt the Social Circle Special Snowflake
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2012, 07:54:05 AM »
Wow....after reading your update on this, I'm shocked and appalled that Mooch has not been kicked out of your social circle.  Not only does Mooch never pay his way, but he has been suspected of swiping money/valuables from people's homes.  He's also apparently a master manipulator, if he successfully plays the "victim card" whenever confronted despite all the evidence.  I agree with everyone that you should not put up with this- Mooch's actions are damaging the whole group and people are already not going to events he is invited to (I wouldn't either).  I also know that it can be difficult to stand up to someone like this alone if others try to make you look like the bad guy. 

I am scheduled to host one of the next activities which everyone knows is a social circle only event. I have attempted to contact him privately twice through different communication methods so that I could very clearly state the expectations of the event, namely who exactly is invited and that anyone else will be turned away. The expectations and who is invited is commonly known by the entire social circle because it is a traditional event we have been doing for years. He has caused problems at this event in the past and in the past I did not have a spine to stand up to him. My spine is polished and ready this year andI want him to know that I will not put up with these behaviours. I know that he has received both messages asking him to call me but he has not tried to contact me. I will likely see him soon at a party but I do not want to talk to him there because historically he tends to react poorly. I do not want his drama to ruin someone elses party.

How do I bean dip this conversation so it does not happen at the party? Any advice on how to reset boundaries after you've let them be trampled on. He knows the expectations of the event I am hosting, so do I even need to remind him? Is this just opening the door to more drama or because I have let him slide in the past do I need to reassert the expectations? How do I do this if he wont answer all my attempts to contact him? Can I just leave a message on voicemail?

Hate to suggest this, but based on what you have stated about his behavior I wouldn't be surprised if he is avoiding you on purpose.  Because he has gotten away with this so many times before, he will just show up with extra guest, no money, and play the "victim card" again ("But I never got your messages!  I didn't KNOW we couldn't bring uninvited guests- YOU can't leave my friend outside!!!) because he knows some nitwit will fall for it. 

But you know what- two can play that game.  First of all, any other messages you email Mooch about the dynamics of the event, send a blank copy to the head(s) of the group or other group members you trust.  Then if he starts claiming he never received your messages, others can back you up.
Also get together before the event with members who share your opinions about Mooch- let them know you do not plan to cater to his behavior any more and ask them to back you up if he starts trying to play the "victim card" again.  Toot's suggestion of turning the victim card on yourself is a good, and ask the others you trust to follow your lead.  Take a lesson from Mooch, there is safety in numbers and if there are others that feel the same way you do then get them to back you up here.     

weeblewobble

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Re: Update page 2 How do i melt the Social Circle Special Snowflake
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2012, 09:16:03 AM »
I would exclude not only Mooch from future invitations, but Mooch Enablers as well.  Honestly, this is not a good group of friends.  There is a dysfunction within the group that is keeping the members miserable.  Do you really want to hang out with people who tell you, "You don't have the right to resist someone stealing from you.   Placating a thief is more important to me than your feelings."


LeveeWoman

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Re: Update page 2 How do i melt the Social Circle Special Snowflake
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2012, 09:50:26 AM »
To LeveeWoman who berated me for asking if the SS might have a personality disorder OR disability. I did use the word OR, and as I have a son with a mild intellectual disability I find it offensive that you seem to regard a personality disorder of a higher order than a disability.  My reasoning behind what I said was that sometimes, for instance, people with Aspergers can present as socially inept and not inclined to have regard for other people. I have spent a lot of time with children and adults with disabilities and I am well aware of their wonderful points but also their shortcomings.

I did not berate you.

Yvaine

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Re: How do i melt the Social Circle Special Snowflake
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2012, 10:16:07 AM »
OP here...thanks to everyone. I have been caving in too long so it is good to see that my outrage is justified and my decision to stand strong and no longer be mooched off of easier to stick with. I plan on attempting to avoid him at the party but if he insists on talking I will make things very clear using willynilly's line of thought.

Toots your post was a real eye opener. Ironically he has stolen from people...literally took money and things from purses and houses and we all made excuses and simply held onto our purses and hid valuables. Why oh why have I put up with this for so long.

Rusty you are absolutely right we are enabling him and I will no longer do it.

Lifeonpluto I hope if it comes to me being perceived as the " mean" one I will give more people courage to stand up.

Many people in the group are seeing his actions for what they are. For some reason everyone, including myself, bought into the "I'm the victem" act and it had gone too far.

i think I need to rethink through my thoughts of not being able to kick him out of the social circle. I guess everything is possible. Sometimes it is hard to see clearly when you are in the middle of it. Maybe the group will break apart but maybe that won't be so bad, the people I really want to be with will be there for me. I have seen that when we don't stand up to him the whole group suffers. All of our activities and events have been scaled down because of him and they are not as fun. If someone wants to continue to associate with him that is their problem.

You're on your own.

What does this mean?

sunnygirl

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Re: How do i melt the Social Circle Special Snowflake
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2012, 10:35:45 AM »
People with personality disorders are not forced by physical issues in their brains or bodies to behave this way. They can be counselled to behave differently but, those with disabilities cannot.

As a neuropsychiatrist and mental illness sufferer I highly disagree that people with psychiatric disorders don't "have" to behave that way and can be counseled to behave differently - I actually find the implication pretty offensive. Psychiatric disorders are very much real disorders, they are most definitely sometimes caused/exacerbated by physical brain or neurochemical issues (my PhD was on comparing neurochemical factors in schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder, and bipolar disorder), and while counseling can be great it is not a cure-all. Actually there is a very popular line of thought in the psychiatric community (which I happen to disagree with, incidentally) that personality disorders are the subset of psychiatric disorders that respond least well to counseling. On the other hand, therapy/counseling can sometimes be very beneficial to people with physical disabilities or brain damage.

Not that I think the subject of the thread necessarily has a medical reason, or that psychiatric disorders excuse someone being a moocher. If I was in that position, I would simply refuse to pay his share, and perhaps talk to the others in the social circle first and agree that no one was going to pay his share.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 10:42:41 AM by sunnygirl »

pierrotlunaire0

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Re: Update page 2 How do i melt the Social Circle Special Snowflake
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2012, 10:39:51 AM »
1.  I also was confused by LeveeWoman's comment: You're on your own.  ?

2.  If this social circle is so tied to this SS that you can't stop him, then I would be inclined to leave the social circle.  All gatherings are anticipated with dread.  The one person who spoke out in the past was treated as if they were the one in the wrong.  Even if it were family, I would avoid gatherings.  This isn't socializing, it is torture.
I have enough lithium in my medicine cabinet to power three cars across a sizeable desert.  Which makes me officially...Three Cars Crazy

PastryGoddess

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Re: Update page 2 How do i melt the Social Circle Special Snowflake
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2012, 11:05:36 AM »
People with personality disorders are not forced by physical issues in their brains or bodies to behave this way. They can be counselled to behave differently but, those with disabilities cannot.

As a neuropsychiatrist and mental illness sufferer I highly disagree that people with psychiatric disorders don't "have" to behave that way and can be counseled to behave differently - I actually find the implication pretty offensive. Psychiatric disorders are very much real disorders, they are most definitely sometimes caused/exacerbated by physical brain or neurochemical issues (my PhD was on comparing neurochemical factors in schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder, and bipolar disorder), and while counseling can be great it is not a cure-all. Actually there is a very popular line of thought in the psychiatric community (which I happen to disagree with, incidentally) that personality disorders are the subset of psychiatric disorders that respond least well to counseling. On the other hand, therapy/counseling can sometimes be very beneficial to people with physical disabilities or brain damage.

Not that I think the subject of the thread necessarily has a medical reason, or that psychiatric disorders excuse someone being a moocher. If I was in that position, I would simply refuse to pay his share, and perhaps talk to the others in the social circle first and agree that no one was going to pay his share.

I think we're getting off topic...

Kari

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Re: Update page 2 How do i melt the Social Circle Special Snowflake
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2012, 11:12:47 AM »
The Moocher has a sweet ride -- all his events, meals, and rides paid for by his benefactors, under the guise of friendship. I wonder how friendly he would be if it were all cut off? Too bad we won't know because the group is determined to enable him and punish anyone who speaks out against him. I think the OP should say good riddance to this group -- but I suspect it will all come to a head when the group realizes that the OP will no longer subsidize the Moocher's freebies. Either they will all turn on her like they did to that other person who spoke up, or it will cause a rift in the group between Moocher's fans and the people who've had enough. Either way, the OP needs to keep that spine strong.

BeagleMommy

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Re: Update page 2 How do i melt the Social Circle Special Snowflake
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2012, 11:49:09 AM »
DarkPrincess, I'm a bit appalled by the member who used "after all it's only one extra person" or some variation.  If I remember correctly, this event will be held at your home.  You are allowed to say who enters your home.

Something tells me that if this was allowed, very soon Moocher would be showing up with an entourage saying "Well, you let so and so attend, why not all of these people?".

Moocher will never change unless people stop giving in to him.  This man has not heard the word "No" enough.  It's time to introduce him to its meaning.  If he throws a tantrum...let him.  Remain calm and let him rant, but stick to your guns and do not capitulate to his demands.

WillyNilly

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Re: Update page 2 How do i melt the Social Circle Special Snowflake
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2012, 12:00:53 PM »
You know you could always welcome in Moocher's friend... in his stead.  "Sorry but I can only accommodate 1 of you.  Moocher since you extended the invitation I can only think that means you meant to give your friend your spot."

LOL, ok maybe not, but it'd be hella funny.

Deetee

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Re: Update page 2 How do i melt the Social Circle Special Snowflake
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2012, 12:12:22 PM »
Practical suggestions:

As was suggested earlier (by Margo and others), get the money up front. It sounds like your group had a good plan of meeting on the other side of the ticket barrier so people had to get tickets first before they ran into the group.

Can you issue and invite with general details and cost and RSVP information and have people pre-pay? Then after that, you issue the invite with the actual details and the guest list and mention that the guest list is fixed. This is a bit clunky, but it gives a barrier.

Personally I know that I simply would not invite him. I would tell others I was tired of his mooching and that THEY were welcome to invite him to their events, but I wasn't going to.

Also, let people know that you will NEVER be paying any portion of moochers share (or that of his friends) again. You can do this in a blanket email or a series of conversations or whatever, but just pre-warn people that you will not be paying for him EVER again. be friendly, be matter of fact, but be firm. Other people can cover him, but they will know beforehand that you will not.

Salvage3

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Re: Update page 2 How do i melt the Social Circle Special Snowflake
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2012, 12:27:39 PM »
I know this is a little harsh, but I can't imagine why anyone would want to belong to a social group that has allowed these things to go on for so long.  One or two occurrences, as described by the OP, would have made me walk away.  I am truly wondering what is so special or what anyone gets out of the group to make it so.

In any event, all I can suggest is to group together those who agree with OP and start an aggressive defense against the SS's actions or form another group.

OP, I feel very sorry for you.  I'm assuming there are a lot of things we don't know that make up your decision to stay.  With regard to the event you are hosting, I would simply call and leave a detailed voice mail message.  It is up to her whether he listens or even cares.  And I think you have no choice but to be prepared to take action when he does show up with a guest or does anything other than what you have requested or told him not to do.

GrammarNerd

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Re: Update page 2 How do i melt the Social Circle Special Snowflake
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2012, 12:35:40 PM »
If invites go out in a written form, perhaps you could put in a line by the cost that says "Each person is responsible to pay his/her own way."

And if you can talk to Moocher ahead of time, be all sickly sweet and tell/ask him, "Now you know the cost is $XX, right?"  "You know that each person is paying for himself, right?" etc., like you're talking to a child.  Then when he asks for a handout, you can say, "Dude, why did you even come if you didn't have the money?  You said you KNEW that we're all paying for our own tickets.  What...did you just automatically assume that we're paying for you AGAIN?"

He's counting on making it uncomfortable for you to refuse to subsidize him, so he'll get what he wants.  Now you (all of you) have to turn the tables and make it really uncomfortable for him to mooch.  I like the 'rant' that another poster crafted.  Turn it around on him.  It's about time someone did.