Teacher situation (long) -- UPDATES #26, #56, #141 (mini), #151, #165

[WillyNilly]

Ok here's what I don't get.  I guess things are really really different in other states?  'Cause in my state & city schools, and teachers, are ranked by performance of students.  Wouldn't it be in a teacher's best interest for themselves (their job security) and for their school (budgets) to have more "A" students then less?

[Coley]

I strongly suggest that you approach the principal right now before any grades are released. The process, not the outcome is the problem and even if your son gets an A, it was a poor process.

Also, your complaints have more weight if they are NOT associated with a grade.

modify: This doesn't need to be a complaint. This should be more of a heads-up for the principal. The principal cannot do his/her job effectively unless they know what's going on. So help the principal deal with this situation as well as possible.

I understand where you're coming from. You make a good point, and in the bigger picture I agree 100% that the process is the problem. I am concerned about the possibility of retaliation with DS's grade, which is why I was leaning toward waiting. Thoughts?

[Sharnita]

Ok here's what I don't get.  I guess things are really really different in other states?  'Cause in my state & city schools, and teachers, are ranked by performance of students.  Wouldn't it be in a teacher's best interest for themselves (their job security) and for their school (budgets) to have more "A" students then less?

Not only does it differ by state but by district.  Also, she might be told this is how she is to measure the students. And the idea of what performance is varies widely. Whether it is judged by a grade, a test score, what happens to be going on when an administrator visits.  Then there is the question of how you can compare teachers who have a lot of special needs students on their classes to teachers who happen to have a higher number of high performing students, or teachers who have kids transfer from another classroom ...

[AngelicGamer]

I strongly suggest that you approach the principal right now before any grades are released. The process, not the outcome is the problem and even if your son gets an A, it was a poor process.

Also, your complaints have more weight if they are NOT associated with a grade.

modify: This doesn't need to be a complaint. This should be more of a heads-up for the principal. The principal cannot do his/her job effectively unless they know what's going on. So help the principal deal with this situation as well as possible.

I understand where you're coming from. You make a good point, and in the bigger picture I agree 100% that the process is the problem. I am concerned about the possibility of retaliation with DS's grade, which is why I was leaning toward waiting. Thoughts?

I believe the teacher would be seen as petty, at least by me.  On the document side: Does your DS have homework / stuff that has already been graded?  If so, how are the grades for that?  Because, if he's getting As and then the teacher, after a meeting with you ant the principal, drops it to a C, you'd have proof to call another meeting.

[Moray]

I strongly suggest that you approach the principal right now before any grades are released. The process, not the outcome is the problem and even if your son gets an A, it was a poor process.

Also, your complaints have more weight if they are NOT associated with a grade.

modify: This doesn't need to be a complaint. This should be more of a heads-up for the principal. The principal cannot do his/her job effectively unless they know what's going on. So help the principal deal with this situation as well as possible.

I understand where you're coming from. You make a good point, and in the bigger picture I agree 100% that the process is the problem. I am concerned about the possibility of retaliation with DS's grade, which is why I was leaning toward waiting. Thoughts?

I'd say that you have a better chance of having your concerns taken seriously if you speak up before grades are out. If the teacher is foolish enough to engage in petty retaliation, well, on her own head be it. Address that when the time comes. Grades can be appealed and changed as needed.

[Deetee]

I strongly suggest that you approach the principal right now before any grades are released. The process, not the outcome is the problem and even if your son gets an A, it was a poor process.

Also, your complaints have more weight if they are NOT associated with a grade.

modify: This doesn't need to be a complaint. This should be more of a heads-up for the principal. The principal cannot do his/her job effectively unless they know what's going on. So help the principal deal with this situation as well as possible.

I understand where you're coming from. You make a good point, and in the bigger picture I agree 100% that the process is the problem. I am concerned about the possibility of retaliation with DS's grade, which is why I was leaning toward waiting. Thoughts?

If you are concerned about retaliation, bring that up with principal and let him/her know that you wish to be anonymous until the grades are released. 80% of the issues are affecting all the students and I think a good principal should be able to approach the problem without singling out a student. As at least four students are coming in before class, your son is not the only one affected by this.

So ask that the principal approach the teaching as a whole, not the effect on your son.

I can also say that messing with a students grade is something that is so frowned upon that it is hard to believe a teacher would do that. (I taught and if there was a semblance of a possibility that a students grade was dependent on anything but their work there were some serious mechanisms in place to ensure that would not happen).

[Coley]

Ok here's what I don't get.  I guess things are really really different in other states?  'Cause in my state & city schools, and teachers, are ranked by performance of students.  Wouldn't it be in a teacher's best interest for themselves (their job security) and for their school (budgets) to have more "A" students then less?

Not only does it differ by state but by district.  Also, she might be told this is how she is to measure the students. And the idea of what performance is varies widely. Whether it is judged by a grade, a test score, what happens to be going on when an administrator visits.  Then there is the question of how you can compare teachers who have a lot of special needs students on their classes to teachers who happen to have a higher number of high performing students, or teachers who have kids transfer from another classroom ...

Yes, here we have a state assessment that all the public schools must use. The kids take standardized tests for reading, writing, math, and science. School and district performance is determined based on the results of the state assessment.

[Sharnita]

Ok here's what I don't get.  I guess things are really really different in other states?  'Cause in my state & city schools, and teachers, are ranked by performance of students.  Wouldn't it be in a teacher's best interest for themselves (their job security) and for their school (budgets) to have more "A" students then less?

Not only does it differ by state but by district.  Also, she might be told this is how she is to measure the students. And the idea of what performance is varies widely. Whether it is judged by a grade, a test score, what happens to be going on when an administrator visits.  Then there is the question of how you can compare teachers who have a lot of special needs students on their classes to teachers who happen to have a higher number of high performing students, or teachers who have kids transfer from another classroom ...

Yes, here we have a state assessment that all the public schools must use. The kids take standardized tests for reading, writing, math, and science. School and district performance is determined based on the results of the state assessment.

Are those scores used to determine teacher evaluations? 

[Jones]

Grades can indeed be appealed; I had a grade in high school changed from a C to an A after a summer project once. Very happy about that, I'd depended on the change to keep up my A- average.

[Coley]

I strongly suggest that you approach the principal right now before any grades are released. The process, not the outcome is the problem and even if your son gets an A, it was a poor process.

Also, your complaints have more weight if they are NOT associated with a grade.

modify: This doesn't need to be a complaint. This should be more of a heads-up for the principal. The principal cannot do his/her job effectively unless they know what's going on. So help the principal deal with this situation as well as possible.

I understand where you're coming from. You make a good point, and in the bigger picture I agree 100% that the process is the problem. I am concerned about the possibility of retaliation with DS's grade, which is why I was leaning toward waiting. Thoughts?

I believe the teacher would be seen as petty, at least by me.  On the document side: Does your DS have homework / stuff that has already been graded?  If so, how are the grades for that?  Because, if he's getting As and then the teacher, after a meeting with you ant the principal, drops it to a C, you'd have proof to call another meeting.

Right now, his posted grades show that he has 99% in science. On the point sheet for these projects (which haven't been posted as official grades yet), he only has scores for his C-layer work. He has missed 4 of the total possible points for the C-layer, which I believe is 76/80. She hasn't graded the B-layer work that he turned in last week.

[Coley]

Ok here's what I don't get.  I guess things are really really different in other states?  'Cause in my state & city schools, and teachers, are ranked by performance of students.  Wouldn't it be in a teacher's best interest for themselves (their job security) and for their school (budgets) to have more "A" students then less?

Not only does it differ by state but by district.  Also, she might be told this is how she is to measure the students. And the idea of what performance is varies widely. Whether it is judged by a grade, a test score, what happens to be going on when an administrator visits.  Then there is the question of how you can compare teachers who have a lot of special needs students on their classes to teachers who happen to have a higher number of high performing students, or teachers who have kids transfer from another classroom ...

Yes, here we have a state assessment that all the public schools must use. The kids take standardized tests for reading, writing, math, and science. School and district performance is determined based on the results of the state assessment.

Are those scores used to determine teacher evaluations?

To my knowledge, that is the only measure across the state. I don't know what the districts might do in addition to the state assessment. Parents do not complete an evaluation.

[etiquetteE]

I would go to the principal now and not wait.  I'd also mention the comment she made to your son after you left the classroom.  This teacher is a piece of work, I feel for all the kids who don't have the ability to get to school early.  I can't imagine a school approving a curriculum that only allows kids to get A's and B's if they come in early and essentially do an extra class.

[Coley]

I strongly suggest that you approach the principal right now before any grades are released. The process, not the outcome is the problem and even if your son gets an A, it was a poor process.

Also, your complaints have more weight if they are NOT associated with a grade.

modify: This doesn't need to be a complaint. This should be more of a heads-up for the principal. The principal cannot do his/her job effectively unless they know what's going on. So help the principal deal with this situation as well as possible.

I understand where you're coming from. You make a good point, and in the bigger picture I agree 100% that the process is the problem. I am concerned about the possibility of retaliation with DS's grade, which is why I was leaning toward waiting. Thoughts?

If you are concerned about retaliation, bring that up with principal and let him/her know that you wish to be anonymous until the grades are released. 80% of the issues are affecting all the students and I think a good principal should be able to approach the problem without singling out a student. As at least four students are coming in before class, your son is not the only one affected by this.

So ask that the principal approach the teaching as a whole, not the effect on your son.

I can also say that messing with a students grade is something that is so frowned upon that it is hard to believe a teacher would do that. (I taught and if there was a semblance of a possibility that a students grade was dependent on anything but their work there were some serious mechanisms in place to ensure that would not happen).

Okay, this makes me feel better about dealing with this next week rather than after the 5th. I like the idea of anonymity and approaching this as more of a process problem.

[artk2002]

Yikes!  I'll have to run this by my ex, who is a very, very good middle school science teacher, but I can imagine that what she will say won't make it past the filter.

One thing that stands out to me is that this teacher is using videos a lot. While videos can be useful, they shouldn't be keeping the kids from getting actual work done. You can learn far more from a single experiment than a week of videos.

My feeling is that this teacher is both lazy and disorganized. At this point, I'd be camping in the principal's office demanding a conference with the principal, academic dean, head of the science department and the teacher. And I'd be finding other parents in the same boat to join me. I would *not* worry about retaliation -- start the process now before grades are out. If the teacher retaliates, then you've established a position and you can get her called on the carpet to justify her grading.

[Coley]

Yikes!  I'll have to run this by my ex, who is a very, very good middle school science teacher, but I can imagine that what she will say won't make it past the filter.

One thing that stands out to me is that this teacher is using videos a lot. While videos can be useful, they shouldn't be keeping the kids from getting actual work done. You can learn far more from a single experiment than a week of videos.

My feeling is that this teacher is both lazy and disorganized. At this point, I'd be camping in the principal's office demanding a conference with the principal, academic dean, head of the science department and the teacher. And I'd be finding other parents in the same boat to join me. I would *not* worry about retaliation -- start the process now before grades are out. If the teacher retaliates, then you've established a position and you can get her called on the carpet to justify her grading.

I would so appreciate your ex's thoughts on this situation. You make a good point about the use of videos. To my knowledge, this will be 5 class periods of videos within 18 days with the teacher present.

I need to figure out whether we have contact info for parents of other kids in that class. DS and I will have that conversation this evening. I also will contact some parents of kids who are not on DS's team and who have different science teachers. I'm curious whether they're having a similar experience or if it's limited to DS's teacher.