When dinner is significantly delayed...

[miranova]

So. What were the husbands'plans that were so flexible that they could be accomplished any time between about 8.00pm and 10.00pm?

I can think of multiple things.  Going out and getting a few drinks, playing pool, throwing darts, watching a DVD, etc etc.

But back to the topic, yes, the hosts were very rude.  You on the other hand did exactly what you said you would do, which was leave by a certain time.  In what universe could it be rude to actually keep one's word?  I'm not saying it would be wrong to stay if you had wanted to, but leaving as you said you would is perfectly acceptable and any host who expects you to cancel other previous plans (no matter what they are) to stay far later than intented is a special snowflake indeed.

[mindicherry]

I wonder if to her "come over for dinner at 6:30"  meant "I will start dinner at 6:30" and for you it means "eat dinner at 6:30".

Maybe it is bordering on rude to leave, but on the other hand, you are the one who has to deal with a cranky toddler the next day, not them.
And how can they complain because you want your son to be in bed by 8:00 and aren't that flexible, but they were equally not flexible in wanting to eat when they wanted to eat.

First - to everyone who replied to my post 2 (3?) pages back...I didn't mean to "post & run" and then not reply.  One of my kids was sent home from school sick at 9:00am yesterday morning and I have been dealing with THAT fun. (he's finally better, as of a few hours ago)

I guess, in my mind, unless this is a next-door neighbor or your "BFF", I don't understand how it is really "acceptable" to drive to a friend's house, be there at 6:30pm, expect to walk in and have dinner on the table, then leave 90 minutes later (in order to get your child to bed).  Where is the time for socializing? Where is the time for treating them as anything more than a free dinner? If someone invites me/my family over for dinner, except for the "neighborhood impromptu barbecues" ("hey - it's a school night and I have some ribs.  Do you have any salad?  Let's toss everything together and feed the kids so we can get them to bed at a reasonable time and they can still have some time to play")...I expect to be there for a MINIMUM of 2-3 hours.

On the other hand, your husband DID have plans with Joe afterwards.  Perhaps the best idea would have been for just your DH to go for the dinner, and you have stayed home, since you only had a 90-minute window. I'm not saying that your DH gets to have all the fun while you stayed home, but given your time restraints, a 6:30pm dinnertime with friends (and expecting to have ANY time to do anything other than eat) would probably be best hosted in your home, when you can have dinner, then put your child down at their appointed bedtime, and then have time to socialize (which is the whole point of getting together with friends - right?)

As for those who pointed out that I was very lucky/blessed to have children who would fall asleep anywhere:  yes - I realize that I was "lucky".  I didn't mean that EVERY child will be like that.  But I also had quite a few friends (when my kids were younger) who would hang a sign on the front door that said "Please don't ring bell - baby sleeping" and then wonder why their kids were such light sleepers.  Maybe I AM extraordinarily lucky, but my kids were cuddling to sleep with me in the hospital when they were 36 hours old and the TV was on (I NEED "white noise" at all times).  I have only my own experience (and the dumb choices - seriously - REALLY dumb choices) of some of my personal friends to go on)

Edited to add:  that being said, I do think that Joe's GF was rude because you twice told her your expectations.  on the other hand, I think that your expectations were unreasonable to many people.  You should have just stayed home if you knew that they were the kind of people who like to eat late.  My mother invites me over to dinner all the time at 7...we never eat before 9.  Maybe this was your first experience with this couple (although given their original chosen dinner time, you should have had a clue).  But "late-eaters" and "early eaters" can usually only agree when it comes to an afternoon BBQ.  And this is coming from someone who recently went on a cruise with "early eaters" when we are "late eaters" and we had a fun fight about picking the Dinner Seating Time!

[TootsNYC]

I think the OP's hostess and host had said the half hour would be fine.

Frankly, if I had invited someone w/ a narrow window for dinner, I *would* have had dinner ready BY 6:30.

I think it was rude to be in the kitchen cooking, with their guests cooling their heels in the other room. You don't invite people over to watch you cook. Your cooking should mostly be done by the time they get there.

Don't get me wrong--I have had people over for dinner and not been finished when they arrive. But--I always regard it as a failure when that happens, unless it's a few last-minute touches.

And even in those situations, we socialized WHILE I finished up. We talked--they stood in the kitchen doorway, or my DH entertained them in the living room with me shouting comments from the kitchen or running out briefly to be part of the convo when it got suddenly interesting.

I think this was a lesson for the OP--while your kid is little, evening dinner get-togethers aren't a good idea. Maybe they'll work if *you* host, but they leave you a very short socializing time. And it's the rare host that can make your short socializing time work. Apparently THIS particular hostess and host can't do it.

[TootsNYC]

Oh, and...

I've never needed 2.5 *HOURS* to finish the dinner that was running late!!

[bloo]

I guess, in my mind, unless this is a next-door neighbor or your "BFF", I don't understand how it is really "acceptable" to drive to a friend's house, be there at 6:30pm, expect to walk in and have dinner on the table, then leave 90 minutes later (in order to get your child to bed).  Where is the time for socializing? Where is the time for treating them as anything more than a free dinner? If someone invites me/my family over for dinner, except for the "neighborhood impromptu barbecues" ("hey - it's a school night and I have some ribs.  Do you have any salad?  Let's toss everything together and feed the kids so we can get them to bed at a reasonable time and they can still have some time to play")...I expect to be there for a MINIMUM of 2-3 hours.

In the OP, Cake's DH declined the invite because of their son's sleep schedule (nothing wrong with that). Annie countered with an earlier dinner time. Hosts and guests AGREED on the time and length of the visit. That makes it acceptable. No one else gets to determine how long the event should last, kwim? Had Annie had dinner ready at 6:30pm, they all could have socialized until 8pm.

On the other hand, your husband DID have plans with Joe afterwards.  Perhaps the best idea would have been for just your DH to go for the dinner, and you have stayed home, since you only had a 90-minute window. I'm not saying that your DH gets to have all the fun while you stayed home, but given your time restraints, a 6:30pm dinnertime with friends (and expecting to have ANY time to do anything other than eat) would probably be best hosted in your home, when you can have dinner, then put your child down at their appointed bedtime, and then have time to socialize (which is the whole point of getting together with friends - right?)

The OP has made statements to the effect that Joe and DH already had plans anyway. Annie pushed the issue with the timing so OP could attend for dinner. I'm willing to bet $5 that Cake would have bowed out of the earlier dinner if she already were aware of the fact that Annie is a flake.

As for those who pointed out that I was very lucky/blessed to have children who would fall asleep anywhere:  yes - I realize that I was "lucky".  I didn't mean that EVERY child will be like that.  But I also had quite a few friends (when my kids were younger) who would hang a sign on the front door that said "Please don't ring bell - baby sleeping" and then wonder why their kids were such light sleepers.  Maybe I AM extraordinarily lucky, but my kids were cuddling to sleep with me in the hospital when they were 36 hours old and the TV was on (I NEED "white noise" at all times).  I have only my own experience (and the dumb choices - seriously - REALLY dumb choices) of some of my personal friends to go on)

I'm not intending to pick on you Mindi but it just seems like you're on the other end of the spectrum. I thought the same thing about my kids. I could just train them to be heavy sleepers. But I think its a combo of me vacuuming under their cribs while they napped AND they're just heavy sleepers. And since you need white noise at all times does that mean you're parents made a really dumb choice while you were a baby, you know, of being too loud?

Edited to add:  that being said, I do think that Joe's GF was rude because you twice told her your expectations.  on the other hand, I think that your expectations were unreasonable to many people.  You should have just stayed home if you knew that they were the kind of people who like to eat late.  My mother invites me over to dinner all the time at 7...we never eat before 9.  Maybe this was your first experience with this couple (although given their original chosen dinner time, you should have had a clue).  But "late-eaters" and "early eaters" can usually only agree when it comes to an afternoon BBQ.  And this is coming from someone who recently went on a cruise with "early eaters" when we are "late eaters" and we had a fun fight about picking the Dinner Seating Time!

I disagree that Cake had any unreasonable expectations. Since when is it unreasonable for people to...oh you know..DO what they SAY they're going to do? Cake can have her kid on any sleep schedule she wants. If Annie didn't like the constraints of Cupcake's sleep schedule, she shouldn't have offered to have dinner ready earlier. She should have accepted Dh's decline of Cake and Cupcake coming over. Like I said earlier, Cake didn't know Annie was quite this flaky. Now she knows to stay home if Annie invites her over for an 'early dinner'.

[bloo]

First - to everyone who replied to my post 2 (3?) pages back...I didn't mean to "post & run" and then not reply.  One of my kids was sent home from school sick at 9:00am yesterday morning and I have been dealing with THAT fun. (he's finally better, as of a few hours ago)

BTW, I'm sorry your son was sick but glad he's feeling better! I shouldn't have ignored that part of your post.

[miranova]

Oh, and...

I've never needed 2.5 *HOURS* to finish the dinner that was running late!!

Seriously.  Unless she was cooking a Thanksgiving turkey, nothing should take THAT long to "finish up".  I vote deliberately passive aggressive.

[CakeEater]

I wonder if to her "come over for dinner at 6:30"  meant "I will start dinner at 6:30" and for you it means "eat dinner at 6:30".

Maybe it is bordering on rude to leave, but on the other hand, you are the one who has to deal with a cranky toddler the next day, not them.
And how can they complain because you want your son to be in bed by 8:00 and aren't that flexible, but they were equally not flexible in wanting to eat when they wanted to eat.

As for those who pointed out that I was very lucky/blessed to have children who would fall asleep anywhere:  yes - I realize that I was "lucky".  I didn't mean that EVERY child will be like that.  But I also had quite a few friends (when my kids were younger) who would hang a sign on the front door that said "Please don't ring bell - baby sleeping" and then wonder why their kids were such light sleepers.  Maybe I AM extraordinarily lucky, but my kids were cuddling to sleep with me in the hospital when they were 36 hours old and the TV was on (I NEED "white noise" at all times).  I have only my own experience (and the dumb choices - seriously - REALLY dumb choices) of some of my personal friends to go on)

My first baby never slept. We were at our wits' end. I was an absolute basket case when she never slept more than 45 minutes in a row, ever, until she was six weeks old. That's day and night. For 6 weeks. 20 minutes was my longest sleep day and night. You can bet your bottom dollar that I tried everything to make that kids sleep.

Seriously, asking people not to ring the doorbell when she was finally asleep in the middle of the afternoon and I could take my 20 minute nap so I didn't go completely insane was not a 'dumb choice', I promise.

[squeakers]

As for those who pointed out that I was very lucky/blessed to have children who would fall asleep anywhere:  yes - I realize that I was "lucky".  I didn't mean that EVERY child will be like that.  But I also had quite a few friends (when my kids were younger) who would hang a sign on the front door that said "Please don't ring bell - baby sleeping" and then wonder why their kids were such light sleepers.  Maybe I AM extraordinarily lucky, but my kids were cuddling to sleep with me in the hospital when they were 36 hours old and the TV was on (I NEED "white noise" at all times).  I have only my own experience (and the dumb choices - seriously - REALLY dumb choices) of some of my personal friends to go on)

My kids could sleep through a dirt track race (and did.. daddy raced every week-end back when).  They could sleep through a cockatoo screaming (more decibels than a jet plane).  But moving them from a car seat to their own beds would guarantee a meltdown of epic proportions.* Ones that no one but me got to enjoy. Cos hubby needed his sleep for work=our money.  His parents, my parents or our friends.. never had a clue.  Cos we found it out early and made plans with those limitations in mind.

The OP knows her kid.

The hostess knew the limitations her guests had.

The hostess chose to ignore those limitations.

The hostess and host were rude.

And the hubby doesn't get any points once 7pm came and went with no food showing up.

*(we won't talk about from a couch/bed/carset to carseat in the house to carseat in the car and a 45 minute drive... cos I don't need that nightmare to compete with "forgot my gym locker combo and am naked" dream. I've been out of school for over 20 years and no babies for over a decade.. but the former is much more sad vs embarrassing... I can deal with embarrassing).

[gypsy77]

Edited to add:  that being said, I do think that Joe's GF was rude because you twice told her your expectations.  on the other hand, I think that your expectations were unreasonable to many people.  You should have just stayed home if you knew that they were the kind of people who like to eat late.  My mother invites me over to dinner all the time at 7...we never eat before 9.  Maybe this was your first experience with this couple (although given their original chosen dinner time, you should have had a clue).  But "late-eaters" and "early eaters" can usually only agree when it comes to an afternoon BBQ.  And this is coming from someone who recently went on a cruise with "early eaters" when we are "late eaters" and we had a fun fight about picking the Dinner Seating Time!

The thing is, Cakeberet *tried* to decline and stay home. The hostess then chnaged the invite already knowing the time constraints. CakeBeret did not ask her to change them, it was offered by the hosts.

[Catananche]

I would have left at 8 as well. In my circle of friends and family when we invite someone over for dinner at 6.30, the food will be on the table around 6.30. And when my guests tell me that they have to leave around 8, I'm going to try my hardest to make sure they are fed, entertained and had a good time before they left.

As for the sleepers: I had one good sleeper. She would sleep through anything, could be moved from carseat to bed (and reverse) asleep, she would (and could!) sleep everywhere. No need for notes on the door to be quiet for her!
Then her sister came along. She was a light sleeper, if you walked past her room and your knees creaked she would be up again. For hours.

[anonymousmac]

But I also had quite a few friends (when my kids were younger) who would hang a sign on the front door that said "Please don't ring bell - baby sleeping" and then wonder why their kids were such light sleepers.  Maybe I AM extraordinarily lucky, but my kids were cuddling to sleep with me in the hospital when they were 36 hours old and the TV was on (I NEED "white noise" at all times).  I have only my own experience (and the dumb choices - seriously - REALLY dumb choices) of some of my personal friends to go on)

In my experience, the causality runs the other direction.  People whose kids can sleep deeply, easily, and almost anywhere are able to have flexible schedules, go anywhere, and make lots of noise around their kids.  People whose kids have lots of trouble falling asleep, wake very easily, and mostly can't sleep except at specific times in their own quiet beds, end up as those families who have to really follow a schedule, restrict their activities, and tiptoe around if they don't want to live a nightmare of sleep deprivation and constant meltdowns.

I think many parents of easy kids think they just did something right, but in my experience we really don't have as much control over these things as we'd like to think.  It always felt like adding insult to injury when parents of easy kids say things to me like "Oh, just make lots of noise around kids and take them out a lot!  That's what I did and my kids sleep through anything!"  It's as if they think (1) that I didn't already try that 1000 times and (2) that I must just be really stupid, following schedules and tiptoeing around my kids for absolutely no reason.

I'm glad your son is feeling better!

[Sophia]

A friend in the mom church group has a daughter the same age as mine.  She said she never intended on following a schedule - at all.  But, she said you could set a clock by when her daughter wanted to eat or sleep.  During baby playgroup she might say something like "It must be 4 o'clock so-and-so needs food".  But, it wasn't that she saw the time and THEN realized she should feed her child.  She saw that her daughter wanted food, and then noticed the time. 

[Hunter-Gatherer]

I have 3 kids..and all 3 of them can fall asleep at the drop of a dime,  This is not because they had a specific nap time or bed time.  If I was invited to something at the approximate time they needed to go to bed, I gave a heads-up that I may be in another room rocking them to sleep...or they may just have fallen asleep on the sofa in the house. I honestly have little patience for parents who insist on a schedule and get mad at the world when they are not willing to bow to that schedule.

You left - that was your choice.  My children would have just fallen asleep on the sofa and then I would have just transferred them from house to car to bed.  i know that other people would say "my kids would NEVER have slept through them coming home, being transferred from a car seat to a bed, etc".  Well - maybe because you never tried it,  My kids could always do it!

I only have one kid, who's now 4 and a half.  I've never really kept him on a strict schedule, and like yours he's a really good sleeper, though in a strange house with strange people he'd probably (even 2 years ago) just stay up until whenever I left (even if it was midnight) and then fall sound asleep moments after getting in the car to go home.  Fortunately he transfers from the carseat to bed very well.

On the other hand, that's my kid, and I know not everyone's kids are like mine.  I'm not going to push other people to do things my way any more than I want them to tell me that I'm wrong for not keeping him on a strict schedule.  (Although if a parent complains to me about their child waking them up at 5 in the morning and I know that they keep a strict schedule where they put the child to bed at 7 at night, I'm not averse to pointing out that the former is a logical consequence of the latter. )  One thing I'm specifically not going to do is agree to something that fits their schedule, and then intentionally draw things out to mess up that schedule just because I disapprove of it.  That is extremely rude, and even as a parent who doesn't do a strict schedule, I can say that the host in the OP was PA, and very, very rude.

[JenJay]

I have three kids and they were all fantastic sleepers. In CB's shoes I could have kept them up late. I could have put them down at her house and taken them home and put them to bed. I still would have been ticked if I'd been invited for dinner at 6:30 and not served until almost 9. I would have had snacks for my kids but I would have been tired, hungry and grumpy! The child's sleep schedule is a red herring, it doesn't matter why CB had to be home by 8:30. Unless there are extenuating circumstances like your oven broke and there's nowhere else to get food, it's rude to delay dinner by 2.5 hours, especially if you're in the kitchen preparing it that entire time and don't bother to socialize with your guests, offer snacks and drinks, etc.

CB was not rude to leave when she said she needed to leave. It doesn't matter why she had to go. Her husband did the right thing and declined the invitation for 8pm, explaining that she needed to be headed home by 8 (or shortly thereafter). Her hostess acknowledged that and chose to change the invitation to accommodate CB's need to be home at 8. The hostess then delayed dinner, either through deliberate snottiness or accidentally due to lack of planning, forcing CB to have to leave before dinner. There was nothing rude about CB having to leave.

Let me change the scenario a bit and share something that happened to me. I needed a consultation with a new doctor. I called the office and was offered an appointment for 3pm. I explained that I couldn't make that because I had another appointment that couldn't be changed at 4pm and it was half an hour away, so I needed to leave the office by no later than 3:15 to be safe. She said she understood and offered me an appointment for 2pm and assured me that they keep a tight schedule and I'd be out of there in plenty of time.

I show up at 1:45, check in, and wait... and wait... and wait. At 2:45 I went to the counter and asked if I would be called soon, explaining that I had to leave by 3:15. I was told it wouldn't be much longer. At 3:15 I gathered my purse and jacket, went back to the reception counter and explained that I had to leave and why. I also told her I expected my co-pay to be refunded. Was I rude for leaving? Nope. I explained, twice, that I needed to leave by a certain time. If they thought I was bluffing that was their mistake.

(As it turned out the doctor was fantastic, and really was generally on schedule, but there'd been an emergency with a pregnant patient. He called me on my way home and insisted I come back during his lunch hour on whatever day was convenient for me and was never late again for any of the appointments that followed.)