Today's ask amy or cleaning up after yourself

[Margo]

I am another who was surprised at the 'everyone else' comment in the original letter. I did wonder whether it muight in fact mean 'daughters and other daughters in law' or 'members of the younger generation'. If this was the case, then the FDiL may not have been the only one not actively helping, just the only woman / person of the younger generation

(I remember attending a meal at the home of someone I worked with. I didn't specifically offer to help clear the table or wash up as another guest got in first, and was told no help was needed.  Later in the evening a different guest offerd to help with coffee cups and again, the offer was turned down. 

The host later made a comment about my and another guest not having helped out. I don't think it was a coincidence that the guests who offered and were turned down were male, and that I and the other guest who was 'scolded' were both female)

[Venus193]

Don't even get me started on that sexist stuff.  Considering that more people live alone today than in all previous history that is ridiculous.

[Hmmmmm]

I am another who was surprised at the 'everyone else' comment in the original letter. I did wonder whether it muight in fact mean 'daughters and other daughters in law' or 'members of the younger generation'. If this was the case, then the FDiL may not have been the only one not actively helping, just the only woman / person of the younger generation

(I remember attending a meal at the home of someone I worked with. I didn't specifically offer to help clear the table or wash up as another guest got in first, and was told no help was needed.  Later in the evening a different guest offerd to help with coffee cups and again, the offer was turned down. 

The host later made a comment about my and another guest not having helped out. I don't think it was a coincidence that the guests who offered and were turned down were male, and that I and the other guest who was 'scolded' were both female)

Where are you getting a sexist slant on this?  The LW states her son cooks and cleans, but his future wife never offers to help. 

[Yvaine]

I am another who was surprised at the 'everyone else' comment in the original letter. I did wonder whether it muight in fact mean 'daughters and other daughters in law' or 'members of the younger generation'. If this was the case, then the FDiL may not have been the only one not actively helping, just the only woman / person of the younger generation

(I remember attending a meal at the home of someone I worked with. I didn't specifically offer to help clear the table or wash up as another guest got in first, and was told no help was needed.  Later in the evening a different guest offerd to help with coffee cups and again, the offer was turned down. 

The host later made a comment about my and another guest not having helped out. I don't think it was a coincidence that the guests who offered and were turned down were male, and that I and the other guest who was 'scolded' were both female)

Where are you getting a sexist slant on this?  The LW states her son cooks and cleans, but his future wife never offers to help.

The point is that it's one potential scenario that might have led to what the LW is talking about.

Several of us have posted hypotheticals and/or examples from our own lives. Margo's scenario is not necessarily what happened...but it's one thing that could have happened and led to the LW's complaint. Because in her case, it did lead to pretty much exactly the same complaint.

[SPuck]

I actually think Margo's case is worse than the LW now. I can kind of understand where the LW is coming from that there does need to eventually be a change of status during the clean up process some day, which is just small and marbled sized in comparison to the basketball of ridiculous that I feel when I read the letter. But Margo  was guest and a co-worker, I can't imagine asking a person with that connection to lean up after themselves.

[Hmmmmm]

I am another who was surprised at the 'everyone else' comment in the original letter. I did wonder whether it muight in fact mean 'daughters and other daughters in law' or 'members of the younger generation'. If this was the case, then the FDiL may not have been the only one not actively helping, just the only woman / person of the younger generation

(I remember attending a meal at the home of someone I worked with. I didn't specifically offer to help clear the table or wash up as another guest got in first, and was told no help was needed.  Later in the evening a different guest offerd to help with coffee cups and again, the offer was turned down. 

The host later made a comment about my and another guest not having helped out. I don't think it was a coincidence that the guests who offered and were turned down were male, and that I and the other guest who was 'scolded' were both female)

Where are you getting a sexist slant on this?  The LW states her son cooks and cleans, but his future wife never offers to help.

The point is that it's one potential scenario that might have led to what the LW is talking about.

Several of us have posted hypotheticals and/or examples from our own lives. Margo's scenario is not necessarily what happened...but it's one thing that could have happened and led to the LW's complaint. Because in her case, it did lead to pretty much exactly the same complaint.

I agree that what happened in Margo's case clearly lays a basis for a sexist attitude.  However, I just don't see how what happened to Margo has bearing here since the LW states her son participates in cooking and cleaning and seems to expect for him to participate.  IMHO, it's pretty clear the LW dissapproval of the new fiance's lack of participation has nothing to do with sexism.  I'm curious is Margo read something different in the letter that would make her believe there was a potential sexist attitude other than her one experience.

[Margo]

Yvaine is correct,
I was, like several other comments, sceptical about the 'everyone else' - it left me wondering whether the LW complaint would have been the same if the non-helping guest were, say, a daughter's boyfriend, or an older person's husband or boyfriend. LW's son is a family member, not a guest.  I think in this kind of situation there is often a lot of 'unconscious' sexism, where women are often judged much more harshly than men for the same behaviours.

In the scenario I experienced, I would not have minded at all pitching helping to clear the table etc - it was a meal in coworker's home. My objection was to the double standards which were applied to me and female colleague, compared to the male guests. I think it is fine to accept offers of help from guests, I don't think that having first and second class guests is OK

[petal]

when I have people over for dinner  (not very often)  I really dont like anyone helping with the dishes.  I leave them stacked on the kitchen sink to do after everyone leaves

so when i go to someone elses house for dinner I never offer to help do dishes or put things away

[Hmmmmm]

Yvaine is correct,
I was, like several other comments, sceptical about the 'everyone else' - it left me wondering whether the LW complaint would have been the same if the non-helping guest were, say, a daughter's boyfriend, or an older person's husband or boyfriend. LW's son is a family member, not a guest.  I think in this kind of situation there is often a lot of 'unconscious' sexism, where women are often judged much more harshly than men for the same behaviours.

In the scenario I experienced, I would not have minded at all pitching helping to clear the table etc - it was a meal in coworker's home. My objection was to the double standards which were applied to me and female colleague, compared to the male guests. I think it is fine to accept offers of help from guests, I don't think that having first and second class guests is OK

At our family dinners, which is what the letter was about, everyone (men, women, and kids...the idea of "women's work" left our family a few generations ago) ends up getting up from the table within a few minutes of each other, and no one seems to ever leave the table without something in their hands.  Now, a dinner with non-family guests is different, they'll be told, oh no, we've got it thanks and the cook will go visit with them in the living room.
 But in our family, once a person has been around long enough for us to become engaged to a family member, they've pretty much switched to being part of the family.  Even my newphew's GF of a few months was offering to help out after her 2nd dinner (well, actually she offered on her first which we refused).  She would feel very awkward I think remaining seated while the rest of the family is busy clearing up. 

[Venus193]

We're going back and forth on this issue and I think the bottom line of the original situation is that the boyfriend/fiance should have said something previously to the "errant" girlfriend/fiancee.  His mother should have simply drawn that conclusion before assuming the worst of the young woman.