Author Topic: s/o Standing room only--baby strollers  (Read 9182 times)

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AuntyEm

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s/o Standing room only--baby strollers
« on: November 10, 2012, 07:34:09 AM »
Continuing with crowded bus/subway etiquette, what about someone bringing a stroller on crowded public transport during rush hour?  I think they should be banned, along with bicycles, unless it can be collapsed and the child taken out and put on the person's lap.

I'm amazed at the people who bring them on and are oblivious to blocked aisles, blocked empty seats and people trying to hang on to poles around their strollers.

WillyNilly

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Re: s/o Standing room only--baby strollers
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2012, 08:56:09 AM »
Well in my city (NYC) that actually is the rule. Strollers must be folded on buses and trains during rush hour (actually it might be always but I doubt anyone cares if its not crowded). Its pretty well enforced on buses, on trains its only enforced if a person in authority sees it and the stroller is causing a problem.

misha412

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Re: s/o Standing room only--baby strollers
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2012, 08:59:14 AM »
If the bus authority does not ban them, there is nothing much to do about them.

However, I am with you about banning them unless they collapse. I have seen some that take up the equivalent of three adults standing close together. You put that on a bus, not only is it inconvenient, it is dangerous as well. When you pair that with a parent who is oblivious or uncaring to the impact of their stroller to other passengers, you get a bad situation.

camlan

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Re: s/o Standing room only--baby strollers
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2012, 09:00:34 AM »
I'm coming at the from the angle that having lived in Boston, where many people don't own cars and use public transportation or walking exclusively. I don't have children, so I don't really have a stake in this matter.

Strollers are allowed on public transport in Boston. In fact, I just checked the MBTA website and they have very little to say about strollers, except that recent accessibility changes make things easier for people with strollers as well as the disabled and the new larger buses they are planning would give more room for strollers. There are no rules for where you can have a stroller or having to collapse them or anything about them. (I found that a little surprising, actually.)

Parents should attempt to minimize the effects of strollers on the rest of the passengers, but I don't think strollers should be banned. If you know you will be using a stroller on public transport, you should get a small, lightweight, easy to handle stroller. One with a small footprint that won't take up the entire aisle.

Taking a child out of a stroller is fine, if there are seats available for the parent to sit in. But on a really crowded bus or subway car, there probably won't be. Tiny babies aren't much of a problem to hold, but larger ones are, if you have to go any distance.

Holding a squirming 25 pound baby while trying to maintain your balance clinging to a rod over your head and keeping hold of a stroller--well, you might end up inconveniencing your fellow passengers by falling. Or dropping the baby. Or losing hold of the stroller. And small children who can stand and walk frequently can't reach the available handholds and are safer stashed in the stroller.

There's also the fact that crowds of people pushing into a car or bus don't allow the parent any time to get the child out of the stroller and close the stroller before the bus is in motion and the parent needs at least one hand to hold onto something.

The best compromise I see is a parent sitting down on a seat that faces the center of the bus, and putting the stroller right in front of them, holding it close to the seats. But that can only happen when there are seats available.

I don't think the parents are oblivious so much as making the best of a tough situation.
Nothing is impossible, the word itself says, “I’m possible!” –Audrey Hepburn


Deetee

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Re: s/o Standing room only--baby strollers
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2012, 09:29:30 AM »
Public transportation is just that " public" . In many cities it is the only way to get around for many people. As was pointed out by camlan taking a child out of a stroller can be hazardous and annoying if the kid is mobile or squirmy and downright dangerous if the parent is standing and has more than one kid. A stroller takes up space but contains the kid.

Monster strollers are not polite in general, but I don't think requiring umbrella strollers only is entirely reasonable as those things are designed to kill your back ( I'm pretty short but have to become a hunchback to push ours)

Yes it is annoying and the parents should try to minimize with smaller strollers and off peak travel, but banning or requiring folding is not practical.

 I have kinda sighed at people on buses with huge strollers, but then I think how glad I am to have a car because public transit with kids is the opposite of fun.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 10:28:10 AM by Deetee »

johelenc1

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Re: s/o Standing room only--baby strollers
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2012, 10:13:04 AM »
I've always wondered how in the world parents get around on subways and buses with little kids in places like NYC.  I've actually been in the city with my girls - in a stroller - and what I discovered in that people are very kind.  They will help you down the stairs and generally, you can find someone to help you.

Banning strollers is a terrible idea.  First, children have a right to "space" on the subway(as an example) as much as anyone else.  The stroller is apart of their space.  I appreciate that their need for space is more than others, but they still should have a place to be. 

Second, If you want to ban strollers because they take up too much room...what about wheelchairs?  On a bus, a wheelchair takes up a ton of space and it takes forever to load.  You could get 3 or 4 people in the space of a chair - and faster too.  So, how about no more wheelchairs?

Third, having parents hold their children is just not possible - or safe.  I have twins.  How am I supposed to hold two squirming 2 years old on my lap while being pressed on all sides by a ton of people?  What if I have a third child - maybe a 4 year old?  I need to hold his hand.  And, what if we are all standing up?  It's impossible.  And, then, once I am holding two babies on my lap, who's going to fold up - and then unfold - the stroller for me?  What if I have packages or groceries?  Where do those go?  On a subway, once my stroller is folded up, how do I unfold the stroller to put the babies back in (since now all space is used up), and if I can't, how do I pick up the stroller, my packages, and my two babies and make it to the doors so I can put everything back together on the platform.  If I do have space to open the stroller (although I'm not sure how, since my hands are full), I probably need to start at least a stop ahead to get everything loaded so I can make it through the doors before they close.

Fourth - Taking a child in and out of a stroller, folding it up, then unfolding it, and putting the child/ren back in is time consuming.  Depending on the length of the trip, one could arrive at their destination by the time they get everything situated, and then have to put everything back the way it was.

Fifth- some strollers are medically necessary.  Some children can't walk and must be in a stroller.  I suppose that's similar to
a wheelchair, which takes me back to point one.

Personally, I think it's a rather selfish attitude to expect and require one type of person to give up space they deserve just to fit one or two more people.  I understand that at rush hour buses, trains and subways are crowded.  But, really, that's just life.  So you have to wait for the next train.  That's just the way it is.

Kids are people too.  They have as much right to space on public transportation as anyone else.  Their space just includes the stroller they are riding in.  Sure, parents in cities like NY should try to be space-conscious as possible in choosing a stroller, but you can only compact a double stroller but so much.

Unless you want to just ban kids altogether, banning strollers is just a ridiculous, impractical, and really, in my opinion, a rather selfish idea.

sunnygirl

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Re: s/o Standing room only--baby strollers
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2012, 10:22:58 AM »
Buses here have special areas for strollers and wheelchairs. People are allowed to stand there if there are no strollers or wheelchairs. I think that's a good policy.

stkatie00

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Re: s/o Standing room only--baby strollers
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2012, 10:23:26 AM »
I've always wondered how in the world parents get around on subways and buses with little kids in places like NYC.  I've actually been in the city with my girls - in a stroller - and what I discovered in that people are very kind.  They will help you down the stairs and generally, you can find someone to help you.

Banning strollers is a terrible idea.  First, children have a right to "space" on the subway(as an example) as much as anyone else.  The stroller is apart of their space.  I appreciate that their need for space is more than others, but they still should have a place to be. 

Second, If you want to ban strollers because they take up too much room...what about wheelchairs?  On a bus, a wheelchair takes up a ton of space and it takes forever to load.  You could get 3 or 4 people in the space of a chair - and faster too.  So, how about no more wheelchairs?

Third, having parents hold their children is just not possible - or safe.  I have twins.  How am I supposed to hold two squirming 2 years old on my lap while being pressed on all sides by a ton of people?  What if I have a third child - maybe a 4 year old?  I need to hold his hand.  And, what if we are all standing up?  It's impossible.  And, then, once I am holding two babies on my lap, who's going to fold up - and then unfold - the stroller for me?  What if I have packages or groceries?  Where do those go?  On a subway, once my stroller is folded up, how do I unfold the stroller to put the babies back in (since now all space is used up), and if I can't, how do I pick up the stroller, my packages, and my two babies and make it to the doors so I can put everything back together on the platform.  If I do have space to open the stroller (although I'm not sure how, since my hands are full), I probably need to start at least a stop ahead to get everything loaded so I can make it through the doors before they close.

Fourth - Taking a child in and out of a stroller, folding it up, then unfolding it, and putting the child/ren back in is time consuming.  Depending on the length of the trip, one could arrive at their destination by the time they get everything situated, and then have to put everything back the way it was.

Fifth- some strollers are medically necessary.  Some children can't walk and must be in a stroller.  I suppose that's similar to
a wheelchair, which takes me back to point one.

Personally, I think it's a rather selfish attitude to expect and require one type of person to give up space they deserve just to fit one or two more people.  I understand that at rush hour buses, trains and subways are crowded.  But, really, that's just life.  So you have to wait for the next train.  That's just the way it is.

Kids are people too.  They have as much right to space on public transportation as anyone else.  Their space just includes the stroller they are riding in.  Sure, parents in cities like NY should try to be space-conscious as possible in choosing a stroller, but you can only compact a double stroller but so much.

Unless you want to just ban kids altogether, banning strollers is just a ridiculous, impractical, and really, in my opinion, a rather selfish idea.

POD to all of this. I have 11.5 month old twins, and with their stroller, would we take up space for 3 (maybe 4) people? Yes, but that's because there ARE three of us, and I can't hold them both if it's just me with them. At least, not comfortably, and it would be pretty darn near impossible to hold them, collapse their stroller, then I collapse it and get off the Metro (I'm in Northern Virginia). Fortunately, I haven't had to use the Metro with them yet, and I would not plan on using it during rush hour, and would be as unobtrusive as possible, but sometimes, the logistics mean that I'm going to take up more room.

WillyNilly

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Re: s/o Standing room only--baby strollers
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2012, 10:41:55 AM »
I like the way NYC does it. It is the "official" rule (its also against the rules to eat or drink on buses & subways) but its usually not enforced. This way if there is a problem (a fight let's say) there is a quick & easy resolution, but 99.9% of the time its just ignored so long as the rulebreaker is polite about it. Basically by having it as silent rule it puts a burden making darn sure to be polite on the rule breaker because there's no room for entitlement. And for the most part it absolutely works. And in turn, yeah NYers tend to be polite back - I can't even say how many times I've picked up and end to a stroller to help it up stairs, or made goofy faces at an aggitated kid to get them to grin; its just what one does on the subway - we're all in it together.

AnnaJ

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Re: s/o Standing room only--baby strollers
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2012, 11:02:48 AM »
Second, If you want to ban strollers because they take up too much room...what about wheelchairs?  On a bus, a wheelchair takes up a ton of space and it takes forever to load.  You could get 3 or 4 people in the space of a chair - and faster too.  So, how about no more wheelchairs?

This is nowhere near comparable and I'm disappointed to see this comment on EH.  Comparing someone who is forced to use a wheelchair to the someone *choosing* to use a stroller is unconscionable. 
 
 

LeveeWoman

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Re: s/o Standing room only--baby strollers
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2012, 11:09:02 AM »
Second, If you want to ban strollers because they take up too much room...what about wheelchairs?  On a bus, a wheelchair takes up a ton of space and it takes forever to load.  You could get 3 or 4 people in the space of a chair - and faster too.  So, how about no more wheelchairs?

This is nowhere near comparable and I'm disappointed to see this comment on EH.  Comparing someone who is forced to use a wheelchair to the someone *choosing* to use a stroller is unconscionable.

I'm not comparing the stroller with a wheelchair as a means to get around but, what is a parent to do if she needs to go to the grocery store and must take her baby? That stroller is a necessity, not a luxury. Same with a parent who has more than one child.

Tabby Uprising

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Re: s/o Standing room only--baby strollers
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2012, 11:14:30 AM »
Second, If you want to ban strollers because they take up too much room...what about wheelchairs?  On a bus, a wheelchair takes up a ton of space and it takes forever to load.  You could get 3 or 4 people in the space of a chair - and faster too.  So, how about no more wheelchairs?

This is nowhere near comparable and I'm disappointed to see this comment on EH.  Comparing someone who is forced to use a wheelchair to the someone *choosing* to use a stroller is unconscionable.

I'm not comparing the stroller with a wheelchair as a means to get around but, what is a parent to do if she needs to go to the grocery store and must take her baby? That stroller is a necessity, not a luxury. Same with a parent who has more than one child.

Big ol' POD to johelenc1 and LeveeWoman.

WillyNilly

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Re: s/o Standing room only--baby strollers
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2012, 11:17:01 AM »
Second, If you want to ban strollers because they take up too much room...what about wheelchairs?  On a bus, a wheelchair takes up a ton of space and it takes forever to load.  You could get 3 or 4 people in the space of a chair - and faster too.  So, how about no more wheelchairs?

This is nowhere near comparable and I'm disappointed to see this comment on EH.  Comparing someone who is forced to use a wheelchair to the someone *choosing* to use a stroller is unconscionable.

I'm not comparing the stroller with a wheelchair as a means to get around but, what is a parent to do if she needs to go to the grocery store and must take her baby? That stroller is a necessity, not a luxury. Same with a parent who has more than one child.

No a stroller is a want, not a need.  About 25% of the parents I know have never even owned a stroller let alone used one, even with multiple kids.  Heck my parents didn't have one for me (and I was a second child, less then 3 years younger then my older sibling). 

Strollers absolutely make things easier and they are a valid parenting choice, but they are not required to function in society with a child. 

A wheelchair on the other hand often is a required in order for the user to function successfully in the world and therefore is a need.

And that's why for example, handicapped parking spaces are legally protected and "mommy" spaces are merely an unenforceable courtesy.

Tabby Uprising

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Re: s/o Standing room only--baby strollers
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2012, 11:22:21 AM »
Okay, a stroller may not be a need in the way that food and water are a need, but they aren't exclusively a luxury item.  You may not die without a stroller, but they make things really, really, really, really helpful especially for individuals without cars who rely upon public transport. 


sunnygirl

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Re: s/o Standing room only--baby strollers
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2012, 11:27:20 AM »
Second, If you want to ban strollers because they take up too much room...what about wheelchairs?  On a bus, a wheelchair takes up a ton of space and it takes forever to load.  You could get 3 or 4 people in the space of a chair - and faster too.  So, how about no more wheelchairs?

This is nowhere near comparable and I'm disappointed to see this comment on EH.  Comparing someone who is forced to use a wheelchair to the someone *choosing* to use a stroller is unconscionable.

I think your quote tag got a little bit borked there, just fyi - somehow johelenc1's post got transposed with my post about designed stroller areas on UK buses. (Sorry, don't mean to be difficult just wanted to make clear the quote above is not my post.)