Author Topic: At a Loss  (Read 18509 times)

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Iris

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Re: At a Loss
« Reply #75 on: November 16, 2012, 01:28:40 AM »
Thank you for the comments. We have already had some friction over the past week since MIL thought it was DS' decision to visit them during the Thanksgiving holiday instead of his parents' decision.

This happened today, and she told DS the reason she bought a used one is she didn't want to waste money if he changes his mind about playing the guitar.  ::) 

Internally, I am screaming, but I am trying to remain calm until DH comes home.

This got me. So sad that Grandma basically said that he is not worth a better guitar and the belief and pride in him that he will take to the instrument. I believe that your better and more worthy guitar will say to him about how much you believe in him and how much pride you have in him. Your love and respect for him and his dreams is easily told just by the quality of the guitar you are getting him.

I disagree. Buying expensive, top quality items says nothing about your love or respect for your child, or their dreams. Grandma's reasoning (buying something cheaper for someone to learn on, until you see if their interest holds) is a perfectly reasonable plan.

Buying broken garbage, as grandma did, obviously isn't.

This. IME it is extremely common practice for people to buy cheaper instruments for children to learn on and then upgrade when it becomes evident that the child is committed to learning the instrument for an extended period of time.

As for the original question it is difficult for me to comment because this would be so far away from being a big deal in my family that it's not funny. I think this is definitely one of those 'context' situations.
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snowdragon

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Re: At a Loss
« Reply #76 on: November 16, 2012, 02:05:55 AM »
Thank you for the comments. We have already had some friction over the past week since MIL thought it was DS' decision to visit them during the Thanksgiving holiday instead of his parents' decision.

This happened today, and she told DS the reason she bought a used one is she didn't want to waste money if he changes his mind about playing the guitar.  ::) 

Internally, I am screaming, but I am trying to remain calm until DH comes home.

This got me. So sad that Grandma basically said that he is not worth a better guitar and the belief and pride in him that he will take to the instrument. I believe that your better and more worthy guitar will say to him about how much you believe in him and how much pride you have in him. Your love and respect for him and his dreams is easily told just by the quality of the guitar you are getting him.

I disagree. Buying expensive, top quality items says nothing about your love or respect for your child, or their dreams. Grandma's reasoning (buying something cheaper for someone to learn on, until you see if their interest holds) is a perfectly reasonable plan.

Buying broken garbage, as grandma did, obviously isn't.

This. IME it is extremely common practice for people to buy cheaper instruments for children to learn on and then upgrade when it becomes evident that the child is committed to learning the instrument for an extended period of time.

As for the original question it is difficult for me to comment because this would be so far away from being a big deal in my family that it's not funny. I think this is definitely one of those 'context' situations.


  I bought guitar awhile ago for my nephew to use and made him a deal, if he could prove to me that he would treat it right and practice it reasonably regularly I would by him a good one for his next birthday. ( his mother was all for it because they can't afford to give their kids music on a regular basis and the school they go to doesn't teach it). It had nothing to do with not respecting the kids dream...actually it was a way of honoring the dream with a cheaper instrument ( $100) while saving for the good electric instrument he was lusting after ( $500 plus an amp). The understand was that when he got his "real" instrument he would return the  cheap one to me so that the next child who expressed an interest could work with it, not everyone can afford to buy a kid a large ticket item at the drop of a Christmas tree - but we think it's important enough for kids to be able to try things out that we think it's worth it to do what we can, even if it's not the absolute best instrument on the market.  just my 2 cents.

Doll Fiend

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Re: At a Loss
« Reply #77 on: November 16, 2012, 03:19:25 AM »
Thank you for the comments. We have already had some friction over the past week since MIL thought it was DS' decision to visit them during the Thanksgiving holiday instead of his parents' decision.

This happened today, and she told DS the reason she bought a used one is she didn't want to waste money if he changes his mind about playing the guitar.  ::) 

Internally, I am screaming, but I am trying to remain calm until DH comes home.

This got me. So sad that Grandma basically said that he is not worth a better guitar and the belief and pride in him that he will take to the instrument. I believe that your better and more worthy guitar will say to him about how much you believe in him and how much pride you have in him. Your love and respect for him and his dreams is easily told just by the quality of the guitar you are getting him.

I disagree. Buying expensive, top quality items says nothing about your love or respect for your child, or their dreams. Grandma's reasoning (buying something cheaper for someone to learn on, until you see if their interest holds) is a perfectly reasonable plan.

Buying broken garbage, as grandma did, obviously isn't.

This. IME it is extremely common practice for people to buy cheaper instruments for children to learn on and then upgrade when it becomes evident that the child is committed to learning the instrument for an extended period of time.

As for the original question it is difficult for me to comment because this would be so far away from being a big deal in my family that it's not funny. I think this is definitely one of those 'context' situations.


  I bought guitar awhile ago for my nephew to use and made him a deal, if he could prove to me that he would treat it right and practice it reasonably regularly I would by him a good one for his next birthday. ( his mother was all for it because they can't afford to give their kids music on a regular basis and the school they go to doesn't teach it). It had nothing to do with not respecting the kids dream...actually it was a way of honoring the dream with a cheaper instrument ( $100) while saving for the good electric instrument he was lusting after ( $500 plus an amp). The understand was that when he got his "real" instrument he would return the  cheap one to me so that the next child who expressed an interest could work with it, not everyone can afford to buy a kid a large ticket item at the drop of a Christmas tree - but we think it's important enough for kids to be able to try things out that we think it's worth it to do what we can, even if it's not the absolute best instrument on the market.  just my 2 cents.

And may I point out that it is what Grandma said with her words, not just what she said with her deeds that is what is sad. I understand buying a lesser instrument for a beginner. But actually saying to some one, to their face, that you don't believe in them is just nasty.

Iris

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Re: At a Loss
« Reply #78 on: November 16, 2012, 07:48:03 AM »
Thank you for the comments. We have already had some friction over the past week since MIL thought it was DS' decision to visit them during the Thanksgiving holiday instead of his parents' decision.

This happened today, and she told DS the reason she bought a used one is she didn't want to waste money if he changes his mind about playing the guitar.  ::) 

Internally, I am screaming, but I am trying to remain calm until DH comes home.

This got me. So sad that Grandma basically said that he is not worth a better guitar and the belief and pride in him that he will take to the instrument. I believe that your better and more worthy guitar will say to him about how much you believe in him and how much pride you have in him. Your love and respect for him and his dreams is easily told just by the quality of the guitar you are getting him.

I disagree. Buying expensive, top quality items says nothing about your love or respect for your child, or their dreams. Grandma's reasoning (buying something cheaper for someone to learn on, until you see if their interest holds) is a perfectly reasonable plan.

Buying broken garbage, as grandma did, obviously isn't.

This. IME it is extremely common practice for people to buy cheaper instruments for children to learn on and then upgrade when it becomes evident that the child is committed to learning the instrument for an extended period of time.

As for the original question it is difficult for me to comment because this would be so far away from being a big deal in my family that it's not funny. I think this is definitely one of those 'context' situations.


  I bought guitar awhile ago for my nephew to use and made him a deal, if he could prove to me that he would treat it right and practice it reasonably regularly I would by him a good one for his next birthday. ( his mother was all for it because they can't afford to give their kids music on a regular basis and the school they go to doesn't teach it). It had nothing to do with not respecting the kids dream...actually it was a way of honoring the dream with a cheaper instrument ( $100) while saving for the good electric instrument he was lusting after ( $500 plus an amp). The understand was that when he got his "real" instrument he would return the  cheap one to me so that the next child who expressed an interest could work with it, not everyone can afford to buy a kid a large ticket item at the drop of a Christmas tree - but we think it's important enough for kids to be able to try things out that we think it's worth it to do what we can, even if it's not the absolute best instrument on the market.  just my 2 cents.

And may I point out that it is what Grandma said with her words, not just what she said with her deeds that is what is sad. I understand buying a lesser instrument for a beginner. But actually saying to some one, to their face, that you don't believe in them is just nasty.

This is off the track of the OP but as a general thing I don't think "I'm buying you a cheaper instrument so that if you decide it's not for you I haven't wasted a whole heap of money" IS saying you don't believe in someone. People of all ages DO try out new interests and then decide it's not for them. If I said to DH "That's great that you have a new interest in photography, but how about we buy NotAsGood Camera for $500 because we can afford that in this month's household budget and you can try it out, and then save up for Awesome Camera that costs $2000 in a year if you still want it?" it means that I don't believe in him or support his interests. It just means that I recognise that a new interest may or may not be a lasting one.

Anyway, this has little to do with the OP which seems to be more about an over competitive MIL than the wisdom of buying instruments of a certain type for a beginner - especially since a broken guitar with no strings doesn't fall under the usual range of 'beginner instruments'.
"Can't do anything with children, can you?" the woman said.

Poirot thought you could, but forebore to say so.

ladyknight1

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Re: At a Loss
« Reply #79 on: November 16, 2012, 08:30:58 AM »
DH talked to MIL and it turns out she spent $$ on the guitar. There is visible damage on the interior and exterior. The music chain store she tried to take it to, wouldn't touch it. She called someone else to take a look at it and it will be at least another $$$ to repair it, which is more than we are spending on the nice guitar.

If money was an issue, then I would understand buying a used instrument. My in-laws are comfortable financially and tend to spend a lot on things they will never use. There are only the two of them, but they buy everything in bulk and the food goes bad or stale before they can use it.

LeveeWoman

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Re: At a Loss
« Reply #80 on: November 16, 2012, 08:50:52 AM »
DH talked to MIL and it turns out she spent $$ on the guitar. There is visible damage on the interior and exterior. The music chain store she tried to take it to, wouldn't touch it. She called someone else to take a look at it and it will be at least another $$$ to repair it, which is more than we are spending on the nice guitar.

If money was an issue, then I would understand buying a used instrument. My in-laws are comfortable financially and tend to spend a lot on things they will never use. There are only the two of them, but they buy everything in bulk and the food goes bad or stale before they can use it.

They have problems with planning, don't they?

artk2002

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Re: At a Loss
« Reply #81 on: November 16, 2012, 09:43:02 AM »
DH talked to MIL and it turns out she spent $$ on the guitar. There is visible damage on the interior and exterior. The music chain store she tried to take it to, wouldn't touch it. She called someone else to take a look at it and it will be at least another $$$ to repair it, which is more than we are spending on the nice guitar.

If money was an issue, then I would understand buying a used instrument. My in-laws are comfortable financially and tend to spend a lot on things they will never use. There are only the two of them, but they buy everything in bulk and the food goes bad or stale before they can use it.

"Penny wise and pound foolish"
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

Virg

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Re: At a Loss
« Reply #82 on: November 16, 2012, 10:28:32 AM »
artk2002, I'm not even sure this would qualify as penny wise, since the instrument as it stands doesn't work.  I think I'd label it foolish through and through.

Virg

Minmom3

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Re: At a Loss
« Reply #83 on: November 16, 2012, 02:13:48 PM »
DH talked to MIL and it turns out she spent $$ on the guitar. There is visible damage on the interior and exterior. The music chain store she tried to take it to, wouldn't touch it. She called someone else to take a look at it and it will be at least another $$$ to repair it, which is more than we are spending on the nice guitar.

If money was an issue, then I would understand buying a used instrument. My in-laws are comfortable financially and tend to spend a lot on things they will never use. There are only the two of them, but they buy everything in bulk and the food goes bad or stale before they can use it.

They have problems with planning, don't they?

They have shopping issues.....  As well as the boundary/control issues.  The thrill of getting 'that perfect thing' becomes far more important than getting a good choice, or the proper amount, or storage - it's the thrill of BUYING it.  It's been addictive to many, many people.  When my FIL retired, they had $18,000 credit debt, because my MIL had a serious shopping addiction.  It took FIL years to pay it off.  She'd buy multiple of something 'great', give some of them away, and then give again when she found the rest of them.  She gave me the same book 3 years running, because that's how many copies of it she bought.  And she had memory issues from a stroke, so she had NO idea what she bought, where she put it, or who she gave it to.   She LOVED being benevolent to all of us, and she LOVED shopping. 
Mother to children and fuzz butts....

violinp

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Re: At a Loss
« Reply #84 on: November 16, 2012, 04:17:38 PM »
artk2002, I'm not even sure this would qualify as penny wise, since the instrument as it stands doesn't work.  I think I'd label it foolish through and through.

Virg

This. So, the grandmother bought something useless for her grandson (or anyone else, really, since the shop she took it to refused to repair it) on the basis that he might give up guitar in a few months. That may be true, but if my grandma had done that to me or Cabbage, our parents would be annoyed at best. At the very least, the grandmother could have gotten a cheap guitar that actually works.
"It takes a great deal of courage to stand up to your enemies, but even more to stand up to your friends" - Harry Potter


ladyknight1

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Re: At a Loss
« Reply #85 on: November 17, 2012, 05:11:45 PM »
DFIL called me last night and we talked. I told him that we were planning to buy the guitar, but needed to see if DS would need a left-handed or right-handed guitar first. He explained that MIL had gone out during the week to get the guitar she bought and when he looked at it (he is only home on the weekends), it was made poorly and the pieces inside rattle when you move it. It is going to live at their house, but I talked to him that we don't expect them to give DS gifts, but that we would appreciate them talking to us for anything major first.

So, progress was made.  :) We found the guitar for DS, and just have to get the handed question answered first.

blarg314

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Re: At a Loss
« Reply #86 on: November 17, 2012, 08:01:38 PM »

From a financial perspective, the concept of "cheap instrument" can be a lot more expensive that non musicians expect.

When I was in high school band, the cheap, second hand version of my instrument was $200 to buy, with another $50 for a good cleaning needed.  We rented from the district for the first year (giving me a chance to figure out if this was the instrument I wanted to play), then looked for the second hand version to buy, which was cheaper in the long run.  A low end new instrument would have run at least $1000. 

From a kid perspective, the parents should generally have a good idea if a child is serious about a hobby and is likely to stick with it. The kid who flits from enthusiasm to enthusiasm on rapid basis and has a closet full of barely used sports, art and music gear gets a thrift store or rented guitar until they've demonstrated they want to stick with it. A musical kid who tends to stick with the same enjoyments is a different story, and could well benefit by starting with a decent instrument.

ladyknight1

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Re: At a Loss
« Reply #87 on: December 03, 2012, 09:52:37 AM »
It turns out the guitar can't be fixed. It likely was never intended to be played, according to the music store repair center. The pieces inside aren't secured properly.

We are taking DS to try left-handed and right-handed guitars tonight, and we will be ordering the one for him.

girlysprite

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Re: At a Loss
« Reply #88 on: December 03, 2012, 10:25:43 AM »
It turns out the guitar can't be fixed. It likely was never intended to be played, according to the music store repair center. The pieces inside aren't secured properly.

We are taking DS to try left-handed and right-handed guitars tonight, and we will be ordering the one for him.

We could hope that this will serve as a learning moment for your MIL, but based on your posts I don't think there's much of a chance.

bopper

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Re: At a Loss
« Reply #89 on: December 03, 2012, 02:10:05 PM »
I still would think about buying a 14 year old an archival guitar.  I would get a pretty good guitar and see if he continues to play it. Maybe he will.  Maybe he will switch to electric. Maybe he won't.  If he does go on to play on a regular basis, then when he is older you could upgrade him.  Maybe what you buy him now won't be the tone he wants.  Also he would have an extra guitar to bring when he doesn't want to bring the good one.  And if he doesn't continue, then you won't have a large expensive item taking up room.