Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27

[Tea Drinker]

I was enjoying reading through these accounts of  behavior exhibiting narcissism, manipulation, hostile aggression, etc, but I see very few examples of what I believed actual PA behavior, or maybe I am confused about what PA behavior actually is? As an example, a poster wrote about how her father openly did not want to walk her down the aisle when she got married, but eventually agreed. It seemed to me he was expressing open hostility and disagreement to the request.

 Now I would have said that was not passive aggressive behavior..... rather if he had agreed to walk her down the aisle and then was "accidentally" late to the ceremony, or "forgot" to pick up his tux too late to showup etc, etc,  that would be passive aggressive behavior.

He was PA before the event whereas your examples are PA after the event.

But that is where I am confused, as by definition, a passive aggressive person does not openly express aggression , thus the  "passive"part...OP said her father was open hostile to, and refusing the idea of walking her down the aisle, that' s just being a difficult pain in the posterior, IMO
As one who has occaisionally dealt with passive aggressive behavior on the part of my spouse, I would RATHER have someone tell me where they stand, say no, be defiant, etc right up front, rather than pretending to agree, or remaining silent while secretly disagreeing and undermining or sabatoging.

He did want to walk her down the aisle, he just wanted her to think that it was a big imposition to him and by him giving in to do so (with her begging) he was such a nice person and it was such a kind thing for him to do for her, how nice of him, isn't he great?!  It's a passive and aggressive way to try to control people on top of trying to make them think you're kind for doing it.

Hmm..certainly controlling and manipulative, but still not sure it fits into "passive aggressive" by the definitions I find online
it seemed more to me, albeit we don't know this person , that he really did not want to do the task but was not willing for anyone else to usurp his position.
Suppose we came up with a similar but hypothetical situation..Sally asks boyfriend Joe to go with her to a dance. Joe hates dancing and says upfront he does not wish to go. Sally nicely says, that's not a problem, Other guy Ed likes dancing I'll go with him instead. Joe, scared he will lose her,not wanting her to go with other guy says, he will go...so who is the manipulator?

Without more details (which of course don't exist in a hypothetical), I don't know whether anyone is a manipulator.

If I were in Sally's shoes, and said "that's okay, I'll do that with someone else" I wouldn't be trying to manipulate my partner into doing it, and I wouldn't be thinking "if Joe doesn't go to the dance with me, I'll break up with him." If dancing was that important to me, I would want either a partner who actively enjoyed it, or one who was comfortable with me dancing with other people, knowing I'd come home to him or her at the end of the night. Not someone who would reluctantly come to a dance with me, sit out as many dances as possible, and look grumpy when he did stand up with me.

That said, I know there are people whose motivation would be as you imply, to pressure their "Joe" to go to the dance even though he didn't want to. But I still wouldn't call either party PA. Sally isn't PA unless she has no intention of going to the dance with Ed even if Joe still says no. (Taking an evening to figure out whether you'd rather go out with Ed than Joe, given that Joe doesn't share one of your interests that Ed does, isn't passive-aggressive.) And Joe isn't being PA unless he refused Sally's invitation so he could wait until she said "OK, I guess I'll stay home" to propose something he knew she wouldn't consider a first choice. (The non-PA way of doing that would be "No thanks, you know I don't like dancing. How about we go see a movie that night instead?" or even "no thanks, you know I don't like dancing, and besides there are some chores I need to take care of."

[Mental Magpie]

See, Joe genuinely doesn't want to dance, whereas in the actual post, the way the father backtracks shows that he indeed wants to but was trying to get the daughter to say how much she wants it so that when he gave in it made it look like he was doing her a favor.  That's the difference between a genuine person and a PA person.  When I get home, I'll write another example; right now, that would take too long on my phone.

[Piratelvr1121]

When my kids say "But I didn't make that mess!" It irritates me. As a sahm/housewife, it's a regular part of my day to clean up messes that other people make.  If I only cleaned up messes I made, our house would be a pigsty.   So when I ask my older two boys to pitch in and help me to clean up a common room of the house such as the room their computer is in, or the living room and they say "But I didn't make that mess, why should I have to clean it up?", they don't get sent to their room, they get more work to do. 

They have chores anyway that involve cleaning up messes others make, such as doing dishes and scooping litter boxes.  The youngest doesn't have chores yet, being almost 16 months, but when prompted he will pick up his toys and put them in a container.

I'm sort of in the opposite camp here, but then again I don't have kids.  For the bolded, which is true, if everyone took care of their own messes, there wouldn't be much of a mess.  You made some valid points, though.  I might have to try to rearrange my way of thinking here.

I don't really mind cleaning up as well being a SAHM and being home more during the day than anyone else, I do have more time to get things done, but I don't appreciate when the others make my job even more difficult by not doing a reasonable amount of cleaning up after themselves.  I mean I don't mind vacuuming and doing laundry, mopping and such.  But when they leave things strewn on the floor that I need to vacuum, stuff gets picked up (sometimes hidden if I'm really irritated) I get a bit of an attitude when I hear "But it's not mine, why do I have to clean it up?" or "I didn't dirty that dish, why do I have to pick it up?"

They are told "Because you are a part of the family and it all goes towards the upkeep of a home so you may as well learn now and I look at it as doing your future mate a favor by teaching you to not be a slob."

[RegionMom]

one poster mentioned that a sibling got out of house chores because they were SO busy with band. 

yet the story that began this off-chat was about a poster who had been gone all week with band, had siblings sitting at home, and yet was asked to do the dishes when they had had every meal outside of the house.  All she wanted was to go the bedroom and not have to do anything except decompress from the rigors of band camp.  Been there, done that.  It is hard work.

But the mom saw a child nearby to do a chore that needed doing.  I guess the other two siblings were better at hiding?  Or, with the"par for the course" comment, they knew they did not have to do the work, since band sibling would be home soon.

Yeah, it sucks.  Sometimes there is favoritism, or the opposite of that.

Sometimes being the nice child, the good student, the trustworthy one, gets you more dirty work to do and more responsibilities that should not be yours to begin with.  (see the brother 10minute trip face punch post)

And, because I know someone out there is thinking it, can we please get back to the main topic of this thread?

[tiff019]

The couch story reminds me of one time when my dad, who has very smelly feet, decided to lie on the couch with his slippers off.  I, being a very tactless teenager, said "Geez, Dad, your feet stink."  He ignored me (probably because I was always being rude like that.  I was a bit obnoxious at that age).  Then my mum said "Uh, Roger, your feet really do stink.  PLEASE put your slippers back on." 

Whereupon he stomped out of the livingroom in a huff for daring to imply that his toesies didn't smell like gardenias.  Yep, giving us breathable air that didn't make us want to pass out - that'll teach us!

The reverse of this story (which I've told here before I'm sure) was when my sister's boyfriend came over and took his shoes off at the door. He sat on the couch, and suddenly my sister announced that she "smelled something. Do you smell that? What is that?" Well, it was her BF's feet apparently (I was next to him and couldn't smell anything). So she grabbed a bottle of Lysol and Lysol'd his feet. I don't know what she expected him to do--he already took his shoes off when he came in, which was one of her rules. Was he supposed to cut his feet off before entering as well? 

My (adult) dad once got yelled at by his mother for wearing his shoes in the house, so he obliged and took them off by the door, and walked into the tiled entryway... where he then got yelled at for leaving sweaty footprints on the tiles (from his socked feet). He asked his mom if she wanted him to just float around the house. If I remember the story correctly, she just huffed and flounced off. She was a good woman, just particular about very odd things at times.

I quess I'm with her, as I also HATE smudgy sweaty footprints on the hard wood floors in the summer, and there is a simple solution...wear socks in the house 

But he did have socks on! But of course they were slightly sweaty from having JUST taken his shoes off (I imagine bare feet would have left a print or too as well if he had also taken his socks off)

[GratefulMaria]

This might be more straight-up sarcasm than PA, but my mother is offended any time I go with my own preference about a conversation or decision; not following her lead or guidance is a threat and affront.  Once when she asked me a detail about something and I responded with a pleasant, "I'm not going to go into that," she came back with a wounded, sarcastic, "Oh, it's a big secret, then!"  I smiled and chirped "Yep!"

[Julian]

Back in my nursing days I used to work with a particular anaesthesiologist who was, at best, an interesting personality.  He would intentionally go out of his way, in small ways and large, to get somebody to get upset with him, presumably so he could have a fight with them.

I watched him one day, with a new nurse.  She was supernumary because she was learning, but she was helping out with the general OR work.  He kept glaring at her (and he has a particularly penetrating glare!) over his mask, constantly, regardless of what she did.  I could see her dander rising fast, and cautioned her 'he's just after a bite - don't give it!'  She tried to ignore him, but he kept up, she got progressively more upset, until she eventually did bite, sort of a 'what's your problem?' comment.  Well, it was on... 

One day years earlier he was gassing in my OR.  I was setting up for a minor case (BG - we had two set up trollies and a bowl stand to open sterile bundles on, for a minor case I didn't need the smaller trolley) so he he appropriated the small trolley for his (woo!  new at the time, yippee!!!) laptop.  I made no comment, despite him repeatedly looking over at me as if expecting a bite.  No, mate, I know better.  Next case was a bigger case, but I could make do with one trolley, so I again made no comment, left him with the smaller trolley and kept on going.  So he made a big production about coming over (after most of the set up was done, of course) and saying 'Sorry, Sister [for that was how we were addressed back then], do you need your trolley back?'  I replied cheerully, no thanks, I can manage.  Well, he was so disappointed that I didn't a) ask for it back before we started, so he could argue with me, or b) demand it back right then and there or c) tell him off for borrowing it in the first place.  Nope, I'm not going to play your games, sunshine, so you keep the trolley.  It was very amusing watching him deflate in frustration!   

Another day, on a weekend, he came in to do a few cases as an extra.  We were very busy, so the cases were delayed a little, and at the time I was in the stock room putting instruments away.  He came in to rant at me (colour me surprised, I wouldn't have thought he knew where the nurses' stock room even was!) about the late start.
A: 'It's so frustrating to have to start late when I give up my Saturday like this!' 
J: 'Yup, I know...' 
A:'This happens every time!!' 
J: 'Yup, I know...' 
A: 'It's particularly hard because I'm trying to lose weight...'
J: 'I know, and you come in here, without having had lunch, then you get too hungry, then you eat the wrong thing, then you eat too much, and the weight never comes off...'
A: 'Yeah...'  wanders off, deflated.
Seriously it was like watching somebody letting the air out of a balloon!

I could tell many, many tales of this guy - I worked with him for around 20 years, and we ended up quite friendly, but oh lordy he was a master manipulator. 

[MyFamily]

I'm giving a PA coworker what she wants.  She doesn't want to talk with me right now (I'm not willing to take on an extra task for her that our receptionist who is currently out on medical leave normally does, but that is because I've taken on 85% of the receptionist's tasks, and I just don't have time for one more).  Why is this a bit of karma? Because we just got a new printer/copier/scanner/fax machine and the only staff member who really went through the training was me (ie I didn't focus just on what I need, but on what everyone needs), and she didn't go through any of the training (her choice). So now, she's having troubles making some simple copies because while the new machines aren't that different, there is a difference, and she's going to have to learn how to do it, and there is no one else who can show her what she needs to know because I'm the only one who knows.  (and for the record, I'm being professional and have emailed her twice reminding her that I need to show her things on the machines - she just hasn't responded at all).

[Library Dragon]

It does amuse me how many terrible clients seem to believe that the Worst Possible Threat they can make is to say they'll go elsewhere.

I've told this story here before but I don't think in this thread.

I work in a public library. Our fines are 25 cents a day per item, but you're allowed to ignore them and keep checking out until they exceed $25, at which point you're blocked. We had a patron who was difficult in a variety of small ways, not really worse than many other patrons. She had more than $25 in fines, so we wouldn't check out to her until she paid them down. It escalated until our supervisor came out and brought her into her office to discuss matters. At which point the patron informs supervisor that if the fines aren't waived, "I'll take my business elsewhere."

To which supervisor replied, "Okay."

Seriously, lady, you hold no cards. The only way we receive money from you is via fines and taxes. You're going to pay the taxes no matter what, which made our choices

1) Waive your fines and lose that money, and still have to deal with you.
2) Not waive your fines so you can't use the library and we don't have to deal with you.
3) Not waive your fines and you go to another branch and bug them.

Why in the world would we go with option 1? The patron was pretty shocked by supervisor's reply, but she did pay her fines.

I should point out that we're pretty generous when it comes to waiving fines for anything resembling a valid reason. But "I just shouldn't have to pay them" gets you nowhere.

This makes me guffaw every time it happens.  I just had an cal from a patron who had over $600 in library materials.  We had:
1. Sent her an email reminder 3 days before they were due;
2. Sent an overdue notice;
3. Sent a bill;
4. Months later she was turned over to the collection agency and received a letter.
5. Sent a certified letter reminding her that we have the right to turn her over to the magistrate.

She called screaming that we were charging too much for the items. I explained that we really didn't want her money, just for her to bring back the 25 items (DVDs & books) in good condition.  It turned out she sold them in a yard sale. She announced that once she paid for the materials her "business with the library is done."

Yes, it hurts my feelings that someone who steals from the public won't be using our facilities again.

[Katana_Geldar]

The students at my library haven't usually been to a library before, so they have no idea that they have to bring the books back when they say and it has to be constantly drummed int them. It's nothing to them to borrow a text book for, say, the rest of the semester, and then return it as pay the fine because its cheaper than buying the book.

And we did find a book tha had been missing six months hidden in one of the toilets. Students had been using it to cheat in exams.

[crella]

It turned out she sold them in a yard sale.

 

[rose red]

Six. Hundred. Dollars.    That sure as heck can buy more than 25 books and DVDs.  When I was young and lazy, the most I racked up $20 and was so mad at myself.  I thought nobody was stupid as me for letting it go that long, especially when fines were only 10 cents a day.  And then I overhear librarians with other patrons, and read stories like this and realize, no, I'm not the worse they've ever encountered (probably not even a blip on their radar).

[Shalamar]

Can you tell my mum that?  I still don't think she's forgiven me for being "so stupid" about accumulating a $6 fine.

[bopper]

Re: the band member and the dishes

I am a mom but I have been that band member too.  One has to help as a household member to maintain the house. But generally usually you have gotten the  benefit of the meal you eat that you are asked to clean up after.   Or you have used the bathroom that you are asked to clean. Or stepped on the floors you are asked to vacuum. 

My dilemma is when I make dinner, but the person designated as the dish doer that night decided they didn't want the main meal and made something else for themselves.  I still want them to clean up as I made dinner and it is their turn.

[Katana_Geldar]

Six. Hundred. Dollars.    That sure as heck can buy more than 25 books and DVDs.  When I was young and lazy, the most I racked up $20 and was so mad at myself.  I thought nobody was stupid as me for letting it go that long, especially when fines were only 10 cents a day.  And then I overhear librarians with other patrons, and read stories like this and realize, no, I'm not the worse they've ever encountered (probably not even a blip on their radar).

You try having overdubs at a university library.