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Author Topic: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27  (Read 303312 times)

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snowflake

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #450 on: February 25, 2013, 11:06:03 AM »
When my kids say "But I didn't make that mess!" It irritates me. As a sahm/housewife, it's a regular part of my day to clean up messes that other people make.  If I only cleaned up messes I made, our house would be a pigsty.   So when I ask my older two boys to pitch in and help me to clean up a common room of the house such as the room their computer is in, or the living room and they say "But I didn't make that mess, why should I have to clean it up?", they don't get sent to their room, they get more work to do. 

They have chores anyway that involve cleaning up messes others make, such as doing dishes and scooping litter boxes.  The youngest doesn't have chores yet, being almost 16 months, but when prompted he will pick up his toys and put them in a container.

Part of parceling out chores is that everyone picks up everyone else's mess.  I think it's a great thing that you are teaching your kids that.

I once lived in a shared house.  The rule was "Pick up your own mess."  I think it was a fabulous fail because my roommates were always thinking that they didn't put the soap scum on the bathtub or the grime on the stove.  So I regularly got, "This mess can't be mine because I clean up after myself!"

That house was a study in PA. "Well if you LIKE living like this it's YOUR choice." or "I won't tell you what to do, because I guess you like being a slob."  The worst was, "Did your mother not teach you..."  Which was awful because my mother didn't actually teach me.  Um, why yes, according to CPS I was living in low-level negligence on and off in my childhood.  But you know?  Talking about someone's family of origin circumstances as an insult is pretty low because it's not like they can help it!

Now I won't pretend I was Ms. Neat.  But I did some deep cleaning and never left anything out for more than a few hours.  The roommates would throw a fit if I dropped my backpack on the couch while I made myself a sandwich.  But while they "picked up" they never did a bit of deep cleaning.

I finally stopped cleaning the bathroom, sweeping off the porch, cleaning the oven and doing other things that I had been used to doing at home.  I just picked up my stuff.  That's it.  The shower got really, really, really, really gross.  I just smiled when they got squicked out.

Remember that low-level negligence?  I can tolerate really, really gross if I try.

Roodabega

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #451 on: February 25, 2013, 11:22:26 AM »
I'm mostly on Wonderfullyanonymous' side on this one.  It's all well and good if you want kids to participate in the daily household chores, but you better be sure it's equitable across all of them.  Having someone come home after being gone and having them clean up messes created by someone else doesn't prepare your child for anything but resentment.  Especially if, as it sounds, the siblings don't have the same expectation.

rose red

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #452 on: February 25, 2013, 11:35:00 AM »
I'm mostly on Wonderfullyanonymous' side on this one.  It's all well and good if you want kids to participate in the daily household chores, but you better be sure it's equitable across all of them.  Having someone come home after being gone and having them clean up messes created by someone else doesn't prepare your child for anything but resentment.  Especially if, as it sounds, the siblings don't have the same expectation.

This is what I'm thinking with her "par for the course" comment. 

alkira6

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #453 on: February 25, 2013, 12:02:59 PM »
I'm mostly on Wonderfullyanonymous' side on this one.  It's all well and good if you want kids to participate in the daily household chores, but you better be sure it's equitable across all of them.  Having someone come home after being gone and having them clean up messes created by someone else doesn't prepare your child for anything but resentment.  Especially if, as it sounds, the siblings don't have the same expectation.

This is what I'm thinking with her "par for the course" comment.

Yeah, my example is coming home from a trip to Wshington DC, getting picked up at the airport and being told that I need to do laundry and change the sheets on all the beds.  I've been gone 10 days mom, can I at least put my bags down first?

Piratelvr1121

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #454 on: February 25, 2013, 12:08:48 PM »
Wow that is extreme.  Usually when we're just getting home from somewhere, like visiting family or something, DH and I do expect the children to help carry stuff in but once that's done they're allowed to relax. 

I wouldn't expect them to jump on chores if they'd been away for a week or so.  Just carry their suitcase in.
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars.  You have a right to be here. Be cheerful, strive to be happy. -Desiderata

alkira6

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #455 on: February 25, 2013, 12:45:29 PM »
Wow that is extreme.  Usually when we're just getting home from somewhere, like visiting family or something, DH and I do expect the children to help carry stuff in but once that's done they're allowed to relax. 

I wouldn't expect them to jump on chores if they'd been away for a week or so.  Just carry their suitcase in.

That is my one extreme example, but I was not surprised by it.  My older sister was excused from a lot because she had band and tutoring and my younger sister was excused because of who knows why.  Somehow my activities and job were never an excuse.

weeblewobble

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #456 on: February 25, 2013, 12:59:11 PM »


Note to Weeble: I totally understand your sister's Low Ted Tolerance! That was beyond-the-pale not fair to you and sis.

Yeah, even though I find myself in the peacekeeper role more often than not, I try not to make my sister feel like I judge her for her resentments toward Ted.  She has more reason to resent him than I do.

PeterM

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #457 on: February 25, 2013, 01:21:04 PM »
It does amuse me how many terrible clients seem to believe that the Worst Possible Threat they can make is to say they'll go elsewhere.

I've told this story here before but I don't think in this thread.

I work in a public library. Our fines are 25 cents a day per item, but you're allowed to ignore them and keep checking out until they exceed $25, at which point you're blocked. We had a patron who was difficult in a variety of small ways, not really worse than many other patrons. She had more than $25 in fines, so we wouldn't check out to her until she paid them down. It escalated until our supervisor came out and brought her into her office to discuss matters. At which point the patron informs supervisor that if the fines aren't waived, "I'll take my business elsewhere."

To which supervisor replied, "Okay."

Seriously, lady, you hold no cards. The only way we receive money from you is via fines and taxes. You're going to pay the taxes no matter what, which made our choices

1) Waive your fines and lose that money, and still have to deal with you.
2) Not waive your fines so you can't use the library and we don't have to deal with you.
3) Not waive your fines and you go to another branch and bug them.

Why in the world would we go with option 1? The patron was pretty shocked by supervisor's reply, but she did pay her fines.

I should point out that we're pretty generous when it comes to waiving fines for anything resembling a valid reason. But "I just shouldn't have to pay them" gets you nowhere.

bloo

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #458 on: February 25, 2013, 02:16:02 PM »
It does amuse me how many terrible clients seem to believe that the Worst Possible Threat they can make is to say they'll go elsewhere.

I've told this story here before but I don't think in this thread.

I work in a public library. Our fines are 25 cents a day per item, but you're allowed to ignore them and keep checking out until they exceed $25, at which point you're blocked. We had a patron who was difficult in a variety of small ways, not really worse than many other patrons. She had more than $25 in fines, so we wouldn't check out to her until she paid them down. It escalated until our supervisor came out and brought her into her office to discuss matters. At which point the patron informs supervisor that if the fines aren't waived, "I'll take my business elsewhere."

To which supervisor replied, "Okay."

Seriously, lady, you hold no cards. The only way we receive money from you is via fines and taxes. You're going to pay the taxes no matter what, which made our choices

1) Waive your fines and lose that money, and still have to deal with you.
2) Not waive your fines so you can't use the library and we don't have to deal with you.
3) Not waive your fines and you go to another branch and bug them.

Why in the world would we go with option 1? The patron was pretty shocked by supervisor's reply, but she did pay her fines.

I should point out that we're pretty generous when it comes to waiving fines for anything resembling a valid reason. But "I just shouldn't have to pay them" gets you nowhere.

OT but I've a friend whose dream it would be to be a librarian. I, too, thought that would be a dream job, until I've read you, Yarnspinner's and a few others stories of the less-than-sane-or-sensible library patrons! My friend is an 911 dispatcher and is tired of dealing with people at their worst (understandably). This forum has enlightened me that librarians don't always avoid crazy! ;D

Seriously, though, I'm sure the benefits of your career outweigh the cons. Thanks for posting your experiences (you and all librarians - I have a whole new appreciation for you).

Mental Magpie

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #459 on: February 25, 2013, 02:19:55 PM »
I didn't realize until reading these stories that what I had done was stop a PA person in her tracks.

In my department, there are four stations.  There is one employee in charge of each section for five days of the week.  On their days off, the floaters fill in at those stations.  I am a floater (until March 1st!) as is the other employee in question.  On the particular day in question, I was assigned to a station and she was assigned to float.  That means that if, say, station 1 needs paper but it is stored in station 2, she goes to station 2 to get it.  Her entire job that day was to run errands.

Coworker is a busybody, constantly telling other people of the same rank what to do.  She has no authority over us but likes to act like she does.  We are allowed to use our discretion, and if she doesn't agree with it, she'll come tell us and undermine us in front of the inmates (big no-no).  For example, there is an area in which we're supposed to only allow 5 inmates.  When it is really cold outside, some of us will allow 6 inmates in there instead.  Coworker saw that another coworker had 6 in there and she opened the door, didn't even look at the other coworker, and said, "There are only 5 allowed in here, one of you needs to leave".  The problem is, we've been told we're allowed to break the rule at our discretion, aka when it's cold out.  She just doesn't like it so she pulls stuff like that.  (I have a lot more stories).

I was in my station and decided to let my workers (the inmates) take a break for about 10 minutes.  During that time, coworker came to grab something out of my station for another.  When she saw that I had given the workers a break, she said, "You know you're not supposed to do that, right?"  After having had enough of her trying to control every little thing everyone else did, I didn't even look at her.  I answered her question, that was it, no more, no less.  "Yes, I know," and kept doing exactly what I was doing when she walked in there.

She just stood there expectantly waiting for me to keep going or to challenge her.  Eventually she gave up, sighed, and left.  What?  I answered her question, didn't I?

CrochetFanatic

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #460 on: February 25, 2013, 02:32:46 PM »
When my kids say "But I didn't make that mess!" It irritates me. As a sahm/housewife, it's a regular part of my day to clean up messes that other people make.  If I only cleaned up messes I made, our house would be a pigsty.   So when I ask my older two boys to pitch in and help me to clean up a common room of the house such as the room their computer is in, or the living room and they say "But I didn't make that mess, why should I have to clean it up?", they don't get sent to their room, they get more work to do. 

They have chores anyway that involve cleaning up messes others make, such as doing dishes and scooping litter boxes.  The youngest doesn't have chores yet, being almost 16 months, but when prompted he will pick up his toys and put them in a container.

I'm sort of in the opposite camp here, but then again I don't have kids.  For the bolded, which is true, if everyone took care of their own messes, there wouldn't be much of a mess.  You made some valid points, though.  I might have to try to rearrange my way of thinking here.

Kate

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #461 on: February 25, 2013, 03:01:35 PM »
I was enjoying reading through these accounts of  behavior exhibiting narcissism, manipulation, hostile aggression, etc, but I see very few examples of what I believed actual PA behavior, or maybe I am confused about what PA behavior actually is? As an example, a poster wrote about how her father openly did not want to walk her down the aisle when she got married, but eventually agreed. It seemed to me he was expressing open hostility and disagreement to the request.

 Now I would have said that was not passive aggressive behavior..... rather if he had agreed to walk her down the aisle and then was "accidentally" late to the ceremony, or "forgot" to pick up his tux too late to showup etc, etc,  that would be passive aggressive behavior.

Kate

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #462 on: February 25, 2013, 03:09:03 PM »
The couch story reminds me of one time when my dad, who has very smelly feet, decided to lie on the couch with his slippers off.  I, being a very tactless teenager, said "Geez, Dad, your feet stink."  He ignored me (probably because I was always being rude like that.  I was a bit obnoxious at that age).  Then my mum said "Uh, Roger, your feet really do stink.  PLEASE put your slippers back on." 

Whereupon he stomped out of the livingroom in a huff for daring to imply that his toesies didn't smell like gardenias.  Yep, giving us breathable air that didn't make us want to pass out - that'll teach us!

The reverse of this story (which I've told here before I'm sure) was when my sister's boyfriend came over and took his shoes off at the door. He sat on the couch, and suddenly my sister announced that she "smelled something. Do you smell that? What is that?" Well, it was her BF's feet apparently (I was next to him and couldn't smell anything). So she grabbed a bottle of Lysol and Lysol'd his feet. I don't know what she expected him to do--he already took his shoes off when he came in, which was one of her rules. Was he supposed to cut his feet off before entering as well?  ???

My (adult) dad once got yelled at by his mother for wearing his shoes in the house, so he obliged and took them off by the door, and walked into the tiled entryway... where he then got yelled at for leaving sweaty footprints on the tiles (from his socked feet). He asked his mom if she wanted him to just float around the house. If I remember the story correctly, she just huffed and flounced off. She was a good woman, just particular about very odd things at times.
I quess I'm with her, as I also HATE smudgy sweaty footprints on the hard wood floors in the summer, and there is a simple solution...wear socks in the house  >:D

Mental Magpie

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #463 on: February 25, 2013, 03:10:51 PM »
The couch story reminds me of one time when my dad, who has very smelly feet, decided to lie on the couch with his slippers off.  I, being a very tactless teenager, said "Geez, Dad, your feet stink."  He ignored me (probably because I was always being rude like that.  I was a bit obnoxious at that age).  Then my mum said "Uh, Roger, your feet really do stink.  PLEASE put your slippers back on." 

Whereupon he stomped out of the livingroom in a huff for daring to imply that his toesies didn't smell like gardenias.  Yep, giving us breathable air that didn't make us want to pass out - that'll teach us!

The reverse of this story (which I've told here before I'm sure) was when my sister's boyfriend came over and took his shoes off at the door. He sat on the couch, and suddenly my sister announced that she "smelled something. Do you smell that? What is that?" Well, it was her BF's feet apparently (I was next to him and couldn't smell anything). So she grabbed a bottle of Lysol and Lysol'd his feet. I don't know what she expected him to do--he already took his shoes off when he came in, which was one of her rules. Was he supposed to cut his feet off before entering as well?  ???

My (adult) dad once got yelled at by his mother for wearing his shoes in the house, so he obliged and took them off by the door, and walked into the tiled entryway... where he then got yelled at for leaving sweaty footprints on the tiles (from his socked feet). He asked his mom if she wanted him to just float around the house. If I remember the story correctly, she just huffed and flounced off. She was a good woman, just particular about very odd things at times.
I quess I'm with her, as I also HATE smudgy sweaty footprints on the hard wood floors in the summer, and there is a simple solution...wear socks in the house  >:D

He was...

Mental Magpie

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #464 on: February 25, 2013, 03:13:07 PM »
I was enjoying reading through these accounts of  behavior exhibiting narcissism, manipulation, hostile aggression, etc, but I see very few examples of what I believed actual PA behavior, or maybe I am confused about what PA behavior actually is? As an example, a poster wrote about how her father openly did not want to walk her down the aisle when she got married, but eventually agreed. It seemed to me he was expressing open hostility and disagreement to the request.

 Now I would have said that was not passive aggressive behavior..... rather if he had agreed to walk her down the aisle and then was "accidentally" late to the ceremony, or "forgot" to pick up his tux too late to showup etc, etc,  that would be passive aggressive behavior.

He was PA before the event whereas your examples are PA after the event.