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Author Topic: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27  (Read 303402 times)

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Kate

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #465 on: February 25, 2013, 03:15:28 PM »
OOps did not see the part about him wearing socks...I suppose if socks are sweaty, that would still leave footprints. As one who has dealt  over the years with teenage boys with smelly sweaty socks I still sympathize LOL

Kate

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #466 on: February 25, 2013, 03:24:20 PM »
I was enjoying reading through these accounts of  behavior exhibiting narcissism, manipulation, hostile aggression, etc, but I see very few examples of what I believed actual PA behavior, or maybe I am confused about what PA behavior actually is? As an example, a poster wrote about how her father openly did not want to walk her down the aisle when she got married, but eventually agreed. It seemed to me he was expressing open hostility and disagreement to the request.

 Now I would have said that was not passive aggressive behavior..... rather if he had agreed to walk her down the aisle and then was "accidentally" late to the ceremony, or "forgot" to pick up his tux too late to showup etc, etc,  that would be passive aggressive behavior.

He was PA before the event whereas your examples are PA after the event.
But that is where I am confused, as by definition, a passive aggressive person does not openly express aggression , thus the  "passive"part...OP said her father was open hostile to, and refusing the idea of walking her down the aisle, that' s just being a difficult pain in the posterior, IMO
As one who has occaisionally dealt with passive aggressive behavior on the part of my spouse, I would RATHER have someone tell me where they stand, say no, be defiant, etc right up front, rather than pretending to agree, or remaining silent while secretly disagreeing and undermining or sabatoging.

gramma dishes

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #467 on: February 25, 2013, 03:35:34 PM »


My (adult) dad once got yelled at by his mother for wearing his shoes in the house, so he obliged and took them off by the door, and walked into the tiled entryway... where he then got yelled at for leaving sweaty footprints on the tiles (from his socked feet). He asked his mom if she wanted him to just float around the house. If I remember the story correctly, she just huffed and flounced off. She was a good woman, just particular about very odd things at times.
I quess I'm with her, as I also HATE smudgy sweaty footprints on the hard wood floors in the summer, and there is a simple solution...wear socks in the house >:D

Seems he WAS wearing socks!!   ;)

Mental Magpie

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #468 on: February 25, 2013, 03:53:09 PM »
I was enjoying reading through these accounts of  behavior exhibiting narcissism, manipulation, hostile aggression, etc, but I see very few examples of what I believed actual PA behavior, or maybe I am confused about what PA behavior actually is? As an example, a poster wrote about how her father openly did not want to walk her down the aisle when she got married, but eventually agreed. It seemed to me he was expressing open hostility and disagreement to the request.

 Now I would have said that was not passive aggressive behavior..... rather if he had agreed to walk her down the aisle and then was "accidentally" late to the ceremony, or "forgot" to pick up his tux too late to showup etc, etc,  that would be passive aggressive behavior.

He was PA before the event whereas your examples are PA after the event.
But that is where I am confused, as by definition, a passive aggressive person does not openly express aggression , thus the  "passive"part...OP said her father was open hostile to, and refusing the idea of walking her down the aisle, that' s just being a difficult pain in the posterior, IMO
As one who has occaisionally dealt with passive aggressive behavior on the part of my spouse, I would RATHER have someone tell me where they stand, say no, be defiant, etc right up front, rather than pretending to agree, or remaining silent while secretly disagreeing and undermining or sabatoging.

He did want to walk her down the aisle, he just wanted her to think that it was a big imposition to him and by him giving in to do so (with her begging) he was such a nice person and it was such a kind thing for him to do for her, how nice of him, isn't he great?!  It's a passive and aggressive way to try to control people on top of trying to make them think you're kind for doing it.

Redneck Gravy

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #469 on: February 25, 2013, 04:18:28 PM »
I'm mostly on Wonderfullyanonymous' side on this one.  It's all well and good if you want kids to participate in the daily household chores, but you better be sure it's equitable across all of them.  Having someone come home after being gone and having them clean up messes created by someone else doesn't prepare your child for anything but resentment.  Especially if, as it sounds, the siblings don't have the same expectation.

I tried to POD this hours ago...before my power went off. 

My brother and I frequently use resentment as our middle name...

Kate

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #470 on: February 25, 2013, 04:34:37 PM »
I was enjoying reading through these accounts of  behavior exhibiting narcissism, manipulation, hostile aggression, etc, but I see very few examples of what I believed actual PA behavior, or maybe I am confused about what PA behavior actually is? As an example, a poster wrote about how her father openly did not want to walk her down the aisle when she got married, but eventually agreed. It seemed to me he was expressing open hostility and disagreement to the request.

 Now I would have said that was not passive aggressive behavior..... rather if he had agreed to walk her down the aisle and then was "accidentally" late to the ceremony, or "forgot" to pick up his tux too late to showup etc, etc,  that would be passive aggressive behavior.

He was PA before the event whereas your examples are PA after the event.
But that is where I am confused, as by definition, a passive aggressive person does not openly express aggression , thus the  "passive"part...OP said her father was open hostile to, and refusing the idea of walking her down the aisle, that' s just being a difficult pain in the posterior, IMO
As one who has occaisionally dealt with passive aggressive behavior on the part of my spouse, I would RATHER have someone tell me where they stand, say no, be defiant, etc right up front, rather than pretending to agree, or remaining silent while secretly disagreeing and undermining or sabatoging.

He did want to walk her down the aisle, he just wanted her to think that it was a big imposition to him and by him giving in to do so (with her begging) he was such a nice person and it was such a kind thing for him to do for her, how nice of him, isn't he great?!  It's a passive and aggressive way to try to control people on top of trying to make them think you're kind for doing it.
Hmm..certainly controlling and manipulative, but still not sure it fits into "passive aggressive" by the definitions I find online
it seemed more to me, albeit we don't know this person , that he really did not want to do the task but was not willing for anyone else to usurp his position.
Suppose we came up with a similar but hypothetical situation..Sally asks boyfriend Joe to go with her to a dance. Joe hates dancing and says upfront he does not wish to go. Sally nicely says, that's not a problem, Other guy Ed likes dancing I'll go with him instead. Joe, scared he will lose her,not wanting her to go with other guy says, he will go...so who is the manipulator?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 04:41:42 PM by Kate »

Mental Magpie

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #471 on: February 25, 2013, 04:37:53 PM »
I was enjoying reading through these accounts of  behavior exhibiting narcissism, manipulation, hostile aggression, etc, but I see very few examples of what I believed actual PA behavior, or maybe I am confused about what PA behavior actually is? As an example, a poster wrote about how her father openly did not want to walk her down the aisle when she got married, but eventually agreed. It seemed to me he was expressing open hostility and disagreement to the request.

 Now I would have said that was not passive aggressive behavior..... rather if he had agreed to walk her down the aisle and then was "accidentally" late to the ceremony, or "forgot" to pick up his tux too late to showup etc, etc,  that would be passive aggressive behavior.

He was PA before the event whereas your examples are PA after the event.
But that is where I am confused, as by definition, a passive aggressive person does not openly express aggression , thus the  "passive"part...OP said her father was open hostile to, and refusing the idea of walking her down the aisle, that' s just being a difficult pain in the posterior, IMO
As one who has occaisionally dealt with passive aggressive behavior on the part of my spouse, I would RATHER have someone tell me where they stand, say no, be defiant, etc right up front, rather than pretending to agree, or remaining silent while secretly disagreeing and undermining or sabatoging.

He did want to walk her down the aisle, he just wanted her to think that it was a big imposition to him and by him giving in to do so (with her begging) he was such a nice person and it was such a kind thing for him to do for her, how nice of him, isn't he great?!  It's a passive and aggressive way to try to control people on top of trying to make them think you're kind for doing it.
Hmm..certainly controlling and manipulative, but still not sure it fits into "passive aggressive" by the definitions I find online
it seemed more to me, albeit we don't know this person , that he really did not want to do the task but was not willing for anyone else to usurp his position.

Sure, that may be part of his motive, too, but I see the controlling aspect through passive means to be an aggressive way of getting what he wants: to walk his daughter down the aisle while people think he's just such a kind person because he did it against his will (or so they think).

Thanks for the discussion, btw, I like disagreeing and talking out our differences to get to the other person's point of view.

Kate

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #472 on: February 25, 2013, 05:06:54 PM »
I was enjoying reading through these accounts of  behavior exhibiting narcissism, manipulation, hostile aggression, etc, but I see very few examples of what I believed actual PA behavior, or maybe I am confused about what PA behavior actually is? As an example, a poster wrote about how her father openly did not want to walk her down the aisle when she got married, but eventually agreed. It seemed to me he was expressing open hostility and disagreement to the request.

 Now I would have said that was not passive aggressive behavior..... rather if he had agreed to walk her down the aisle and then was "accidentally" late to the ceremony, or "forgot" to pick up his tux too late to showup etc, etc,  that would be passive aggressive behavior.

He was PA before the event whereas your examples are PA after the event.
But that is where I am confused, as by definition, a passive aggressive person does not openly express aggression , thus the  "passive"part...OP said her father was open hostile to, and refusing the idea of walking her down the aisle, that' s just being a difficult pain in the posterior, IMO
As one who has occaisionally dealt with passive aggressive behavior on the part of my spouse, I would RATHER have someone tell me where they stand, say no, be defiant, etc right up front, rather than pretending to agree, or remaining silent while secretly disagreeing and undermining or sabatoging.

He did want to walk her down the aisle, he just wanted her to think that it was a big imposition to him and by him giving in to do so (with her begging) he was such a nice person and it was such a kind thing for him to do for her, how nice of him, isn't he great?!  It's a passive and aggressive way to try to control people on top of trying to make them think you're kind for doing it.
Hmm..certainly controlling and manipulative, but still not sure it fits into "passive aggressive" by the definitions I find online
it seemed more to me, albeit we don't know this person , that he really did not want to do the task but was not willing for anyone else to usurp his position.

Sure, that may be part of his motive, too, but I see the controlling aspect through passive means to be an aggressive way of getting what he wants: to walk his daughter down the aisle while people think he's just such a kind person because he did it against his will (or so they think).

Thanks for the discussion, btw, I like disagreeing and talking out our differences to get to the other person's point of view.
You are welcome :) ...I find these posts so interesting , thinking about what makes people "tick" so to speak, and sometimes when we cannot get inside others heads and emotions we make assumptions about their motives which may or may not be true.
I laughed at the posts about elderley relatives that moan about how this is their last birthday, won't be here next year etc, etc, .....my grandpa started doing that when he was in his sixties and he lived into his nineties! LOL...don't think he was being PA though, just attention seeking, wanting affirmation of his worth to his family IMO

Tea Drinker

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #473 on: February 25, 2013, 05:12:44 PM »
I was enjoying reading through these accounts of  behavior exhibiting narcissism, manipulation, hostile aggression, etc, but I see very few examples of what I believed actual PA behavior, or maybe I am confused about what PA behavior actually is? As an example, a poster wrote about how her father openly did not want to walk her down the aisle when she got married, but eventually agreed. It seemed to me he was expressing open hostility and disagreement to the request.

 Now I would have said that was not passive aggressive behavior..... rather if he had agreed to walk her down the aisle and then was "accidentally" late to the ceremony, or "forgot" to pick up his tux too late to showup etc, etc,  that would be passive aggressive behavior.

He was PA before the event whereas your examples are PA after the event.
But that is where I am confused, as by definition, a passive aggressive person does not openly express aggression , thus the  "passive"part...OP said her father was open hostile to, and refusing the idea of walking her down the aisle, that' s just being a difficult pain in the posterior, IMO
As one who has occaisionally dealt with passive aggressive behavior on the part of my spouse, I would RATHER have someone tell me where they stand, say no, be defiant, etc right up front, rather than pretending to agree, or remaining silent while secretly disagreeing and undermining or sabatoging.

He did want to walk her down the aisle, he just wanted her to think that it was a big imposition to him and by him giving in to do so (with her begging) he was such a nice person and it was such a kind thing for him to do for her, how nice of him, isn't he great?!  It's a passive and aggressive way to try to control people on top of trying to make them think you're kind for doing it.
Hmm..certainly controlling and manipulative, but still not sure it fits into "passive aggressive" by the definitions I find online
it seemed more to me, albeit we don't know this person , that he really did not want to do the task but was not willing for anyone else to usurp his position.
Suppose we came up with a similar but hypothetical situation..Sally asks boyfriend Joe to go with her to a dance. Joe hates dancing and says upfront he does not wish to go. Sally nicely says, that's not a problem, Other guy Ed likes dancing I'll go with him instead. Joe, scared he will lose her,not wanting her to go with other guy says, he will go...so who is the manipulator?

Without more details (which of course don't exist in a hypothetical), I don't know whether anyone is a manipulator.

If I were in Sally's shoes, and said "that's okay, I'll do that with someone else" I wouldn't be trying to manipulate my partner into doing it, and I wouldn't be thinking "if Joe doesn't go to the dance with me, I'll break up with him." If dancing was that important to me, I would want either a partner who actively enjoyed it, or one who was comfortable with me dancing with other people, knowing I'd come home to him or her at the end of the night. Not someone who would reluctantly come to a dance with me, sit out as many dances as possible, and look grumpy when he did stand up with me.

That said, I know there are people whose motivation would be as you imply, to pressure their "Joe" to go to the dance even though he didn't want to. But I still wouldn't call either party PA. Sally isn't PA unless she has no intention of going to the dance with Ed even if Joe still says no. (Taking an evening to figure out whether you'd rather go out with Ed than Joe, given that Joe doesn't share one of your interests that Ed does, isn't passive-aggressive.) And Joe isn't being PA unless he refused Sally's invitation so he could wait until she said "OK, I guess I'll stay home" to propose something he knew she wouldn't consider a first choice. (The non-PA way of doing that would be "No thanks, you know I don't like dancing. How about we go see a movie that night instead?" or even "no thanks, you know I don't like dancing, and besides there are some chores I need to take care of."
Any advice that requires the use of a time machine may safely be ignored.

Mental Magpie

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #474 on: February 25, 2013, 05:19:40 PM »
See, Joe genuinely doesn't want to dance, whereas in the actual post, the way the father backtracks shows that he indeed wants to but was trying to get the daughter to say how much she wants it so that when he gave in it made it look like he was doing her a favor.  That's the difference between a genuine person and a PA person.  When I get home, I'll write another example; right now, that would take too long on my phone.

Piratelvr1121

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #475 on: February 25, 2013, 07:17:58 PM »
When my kids say "But I didn't make that mess!" It irritates me. As a sahm/housewife, it's a regular part of my day to clean up messes that other people make.  If I only cleaned up messes I made, our house would be a pigsty.   So when I ask my older two boys to pitch in and help me to clean up a common room of the house such as the room their computer is in, or the living room and they say "But I didn't make that mess, why should I have to clean it up?", they don't get sent to their room, they get more work to do. 

They have chores anyway that involve cleaning up messes others make, such as doing dishes and scooping litter boxes.  The youngest doesn't have chores yet, being almost 16 months, but when prompted he will pick up his toys and put them in a container.

I'm sort of in the opposite camp here, but then again I don't have kids.  For the bolded, which is true, if everyone took care of their own messes, there wouldn't be much of a mess.  You made some valid points, though.  I might have to try to rearrange my way of thinking here.

I don't really mind cleaning up as well being a SAHM and being home more during the day than anyone else, I do have more time to get things done, but I don't appreciate when the others make my job even more difficult by not doing a reasonable amount of cleaning up after themselves.  I mean I don't mind vacuuming and doing laundry, mopping and such.  But when they leave things strewn on the floor that I need to vacuum, stuff gets picked up (sometimes hidden if I'm really irritated) I get a bit of an attitude when I hear "But it's not mine, why do I have to clean it up?" or "I didn't dirty that dish, why do I have to pick it up?"

They are told "Because you are a part of the family and it all goes towards the upkeep of a home so you may as well learn now and I look at it as doing your future mate a favor by teaching you to not be a slob."
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars.  You have a right to be here. Be cheerful, strive to be happy. -Desiderata

RegionMom

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #476 on: February 25, 2013, 08:54:11 PM »
one poster mentioned that a sibling got out of house chores because they were SO busy with band. 

yet the story that began this off-chat was about a poster who had been gone all week with band, had siblings sitting at home, and yet was asked to do the dishes when they had had every meal outside of the house.  All she wanted was to go the bedroom and not have to do anything except decompress from the rigors of band camp.  Been there, done that.  It is hard work.

But the mom saw a child nearby to do a chore that needed doing.  I guess the other two siblings were better at hiding?  Or, with the"par for the course" comment, they knew they did not have to do the work, since band sibling would be home soon.

Yeah, it sucks.  Sometimes there is favoritism, or the opposite of that.

Sometimes being the nice child, the good student, the trustworthy one, gets you more dirty work to do and more responsibilities that should not be yours to begin with.  (see the brother 10minute trip face punch post)

And, because I know someone out there is thinking it, can we please get back to the main topic of this thread?

:)

Fear is temporary...Regret is forever.

tiff019

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #477 on: February 25, 2013, 10:26:56 PM »
The couch story reminds me of one time when my dad, who has very smelly feet, decided to lie on the couch with his slippers off.  I, being a very tactless teenager, said "Geez, Dad, your feet stink."  He ignored me (probably because I was always being rude like that.  I was a bit obnoxious at that age).  Then my mum said "Uh, Roger, your feet really do stink.  PLEASE put your slippers back on." 

Whereupon he stomped out of the livingroom in a huff for daring to imply that his toesies didn't smell like gardenias.  Yep, giving us breathable air that didn't make us want to pass out - that'll teach us!

The reverse of this story (which I've told here before I'm sure) was when my sister's boyfriend came over and took his shoes off at the door. He sat on the couch, and suddenly my sister announced that she "smelled something. Do you smell that? What is that?" Well, it was her BF's feet apparently (I was next to him and couldn't smell anything). So she grabbed a bottle of Lysol and Lysol'd his feet. I don't know what she expected him to do--he already took his shoes off when he came in, which was one of her rules. Was he supposed to cut his feet off before entering as well?  ???

My (adult) dad once got yelled at by his mother for wearing his shoes in the house, so he obliged and took them off by the door, and walked into the tiled entryway... where he then got yelled at for leaving sweaty footprints on the tiles (from his socked feet). He asked his mom if she wanted him to just float around the house. If I remember the story correctly, she just huffed and flounced off. She was a good woman, just particular about very odd things at times.
I quess I'm with her, as I also HATE smudgy sweaty footprints on the hard wood floors in the summer, and there is a simple solution...wear socks in the house  >:D

But he did have socks on! But of course they were slightly sweaty from having JUST taken his shoes off (I imagine bare feet would have left a print or too as well if he had also taken his socks off)

GratefulMaria

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #478 on: February 26, 2013, 06:56:21 AM »
This might be more straight-up sarcasm than PA, but my mother is offended any time I go with my own preference about a conversation or decision; not following her lead or guidance is a threat and affront.  Once when she asked me a detail about something and I responded with a pleasant, "I'm not going to go into that," she came back with a wounded, sarcastic, "Oh, it's a big secret, then!"  I smiled and chirped "Yep!"

Julian

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Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
« Reply #479 on: February 26, 2013, 02:08:04 PM »
Back in my nursing days I used to work with a particular anaesthesiologist who was, at best, an interesting personality.  He would intentionally go out of his way, in small ways and large, to get somebody to get upset with him, presumably so he could have a fight with them.

I watched him one day, with a new nurse.  She was supernumary because she was learning, but she was helping out with the general OR work.  He kept glaring at her (and he has a particularly penetrating glare!) over his mask, constantly, regardless of what she did.  I could see her dander rising fast, and cautioned her 'he's just after a bite - don't give it!'  She tried to ignore him, but he kept up, she got progressively more upset, until she eventually did bite, sort of a 'what's your problem?' comment.  Well, it was on... 

One day years earlier he was gassing in my OR.  I was setting up for a minor case (BG - we had two set up trollies and a bowl stand to open sterile bundles on, for a minor case I didn't need the smaller trolley) so he he appropriated the small trolley for his (woo!  new at the time, yippee!!!) laptop.  I made no comment, despite him repeatedly looking over at me as if expecting a bite.  No, mate, I know better.  Next case was a bigger case, but I could make do with one trolley, so I again made no comment, left him with the smaller trolley and kept on going.  So he made a big production about coming over (after most of the set up was done, of course) and saying 'Sorry, Sister [for that was how we were addressed back then], do you need your trolley back?'  I replied cheerully, no thanks, I can manage.  Well, he was so disappointed that I didn't a) ask for it back before we started, so he could argue with me, or b) demand it back right then and there or c) tell him off for borrowing it in the first place.  Nope, I'm not going to play your games, sunshine, so you keep the trolley.  It was very amusing watching him deflate in frustration!   >:D

Another day, on a weekend, he came in to do a few cases as an extra.  We were very busy, so the cases were delayed a little, and at the time I was in the stock room putting instruments away.  He came in to rant at me (colour me surprised, I wouldn't have thought he knew where the nurses' stock room even was!) about the late start.
A: 'It's so frustrating to have to start late when I give up my Saturday like this!' 
J: 'Yup, I know...' 
A:'This happens every time!!' 
J: 'Yup, I know...' 
A: 'It's particularly hard because I'm trying to lose weight...'
J: 'I know, and you come in here, without having had lunch, then you get too hungry, then you eat the wrong thing, then you eat too much, and the weight never comes off...'
A: 'Yeah...'  wanders off, deflated.
Seriously it was like watching somebody letting the air out of a balloon!

I could tell many, many tales of this guy - I worked with him for around 20 years, and we ended up quite friendly, but oh lordy he was a master manipulator. 

Out on the patio we'd sit,
And the humidity we'd breathe,
We'd watch the lightning crack over canefields
Laugh and think, this is Australia.

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