The 'stolen' turkey dinner... UPD #331 p23

[Sophia]

My mother handles the prizes given out at a charity auction.  She gets prizes from businesses, and people also donate stuff. 

[LazyDaisy]

Good grief, $50 is nothing for a charitable donation for tax purposes -- and would only make any difference if the Turkey Lady itemizes her taxes rather than takes the standard deduction. Seriously, the rules for tax deductions on charitable donations are much more strict than most people think: http://www.irs.gov/uac/Eight-Tips-for-Deducting-Charitable-Contributions. Another good article is http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2011/06/18/giving-to-charity-great-staying-off-irs-radar-priceless/

And according to #3 on the list provided by the IRS and on the Forbes.com article, since the "donation" was of equal value as the dinner (according to the OP), sister would not get to claim any of the $50 on her taxes as a donation to the church, and if the item were worth more than what she paid, she still couldn't claim anything. It seems that now that sister didn't benefit by getting a turkey dinner, she can actually claim the charitable donation, but only if the church is on the IRS's qualified charities list (it must appear or it won't count).

My point for using a sweater was more this: this is a donation to a charity not a retail purchase. Demanding a refund for a charitable donation in any form is outrageous to me.

[wolfie]

Good grief, $50 is nothing for a charitable donation for tax purposes -- and would only make any difference if the Turkey Lady itemizes her taxes rather than takes the standard deduction. Seriously, the rules for tax deductions on charitable donations are much more strict than most people think: http://www.irs.gov/uac/Eight-Tips-for-Deducting-Charitable-Contributions. Another good article is http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2011/06/18/giving-to-charity-great-staying-off-irs-radar-priceless/

And according to #3 on the list provided by the IRS and on the Forbes.com article, since the "donation" was of equal value as the dinner (according to the OP), sister would not get to claim any of the $50 on her taxes as a donation to the church, and if the item were worth more than what she paid, she still couldn't claim anything. It seems that now that sister didn't benefit by getting a turkey dinner, she can actually claim the charitable donation, but only if the church is on the IRS's qualified charities list (it must appear or it won't count).

My point for using a sweater was more this: this is a donation to a charity not a retail purchase. Demanding a refund for a charitable donation in any form is outrageous to me.

For me when I buy something from a charity it is because I wanted the item and that it benefits a charity is a bonus. If I just wanted to donate money I would have done that. It's quite possible that the sister wouldn't have donated the money but thought that a turkey dinner with it would then be worth it. I doubt the church will get many bids in future actions if it comes out that you can pay the money but it's not guaranteed that you will actually get what you bid on.

[DottyG]

I doubt the church will get many bids in future actions if it comes out that you can pay the money but it's not guaranteed that you will actually get what you bid on.

This is the key point.  Sweater example or this turkey one, the fact is that the auction didn't deliver what it said it would.  Future auction goers are not going to want to bid on something if it's not a guarantee they'll actually get the item they've bid on.  The church does have some responsibility here.  Even if that's just to protect their future auctions and make sure that something like this doesn't happen again to the point that they don't get any bidders on what they have.

[Zilla]

Good grief, $50 is nothing for a charitable donation for tax purposes -- and would only make any difference if the Turkey Lady itemizes her taxes rather than takes the standard deduction. Seriously, the rules for tax deductions on charitable donations are much more strict than most people think: http://www.irs.gov/uac/Eight-Tips-for-Deducting-Charitable-Contributions. Another good article is http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2011/06/18/giving-to-charity-great-staying-off-irs-radar-priceless/

And according to #3 on the list provided by the IRS and on the Forbes.com article, since the "donation" was of equal value as the dinner (according to the OP), sister would not get to claim any of the $50 on her taxes as a donation to the church, and if the item were worth more than what she paid, she still couldn't claim anything. It seems that now that sister didn't benefit by getting a turkey dinner, she can actually claim the charitable donation, but only if the church is on the IRS's qualified charities list (it must appear or it won't count).

My point for using a sweater was more this: this is a donation to a charity not a retail purchase. Demanding a refund for a charitable donation in any form is outrageous to me.

Again you are speaking around the issue.  Calling it outrageous doesn't negate that fact that the OP's sister did not receive her item she paid for regardless if it was for charity.

[Hmmmmm]

Good grief, $50 is nothing for a charitable donation for tax purposes -- and would only make any difference if the Turkey Lady itemizes her taxes rather than takes the standard deduction. Seriously, the rules for tax deductions on charitable donations are much more strict than most people think: http://www.irs.gov/uac/Eight-Tips-for-Deducting-Charitable-Contributions. Another good article is http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2011/06/18/giving-to-charity-great-staying-off-irs-radar-priceless/

And according to #3 on the list provided by the IRS and on the Forbes.com article, since the "donation" was of equal value as the dinner (according to the OP), sister would not get to claim any of the $50 on her taxes as a donation to the church, and if the item were worth more than what she paid, she still couldn't claim anything. It seems that now that sister didn't benefit by getting a turkey dinner, she can actually claim the charitable donation, but only if the church is on the IRS's qualified charities list (it must appear or it won't count).

My point for using a sweater was more this: this is a donation to a charity not a retail purchase. Demanding a refund for a charitable donation in any form is outrageous to me.

I'm not understanding the point your trying to make about taxes.  I haven't seen anyone say the purchaser (the sister) would be able to claim her purchase as a tax write off.  What I saw was people saying the donar who spent the money for the dinner and then donated it would be able to write off the value of the donation.  And she would be able to write off the amount that she spent.  If she spent $100 for the dinner but someone only paid $50 for it, she would still be able to claim the full $100 donation. 

The fact remains the donor created an arbitrary date for the donation.  As far as anyone on this board is aware, the only place that date was listed was on the receipt the buyer would not have received until after bidding on and winning the auction.  The auction item could have been described as "Full Turkey Dinner from Great Deli"  value of $50 minimum bid $20 with no expiration dates given.

Yes the sister should have fully checked out the receipt when it was received.  But it sounds like she has had some experience with this deli and their gift card practices since her expectation was similar to the managers. 

I used to attend the same auction every year and every year local restaurant donated "Dinner for 4" Value of $200.  But it was well known that you were receiving a gift card for $200 and could choose to use it for lunch, dinner, brunch and spread it over a couple of visits if you liked.  If purchased it, it wouldn't occur to me to immediately check out the document I received and I would have been extremely suprised if it expired within the week I purchased the auction item. 

If the church chooses to not offer a remedy, that is their choice.  But I do think the auction organizer needs to be aware so they can 1)be more clear about any expiration dates on their acution material, 2)find out why the donar felt she had the right to pick up a donated item.  It very well could be that the donar was a worry wart and hated the idea that the meal would be left unclaimed so picked it up and took it to a shelter but someone needs to talk to her about her doing that.

[Redneck Gravy]

If the church chooses to not offer a remedy, that is their choice.  But I do think the auction organizer needs to be aware so they can 1)be more clear about any expiration dates on their acution material, 2)find out why the donar felt she had the right to pick up a donated item.  It very well could be that the donar was a worry wart and hated the idea that the meal would be left unclaimed so picked it up and took it to a shelter but someone needs to talk to her about her doing that.[/quote]

This.   

Now, if sister paid $50 for an auction item she did not actually receive it is a tax deductible item if she meets the other requirements (itemizing, etc).

[CaptainObvious]

Good grief, $50 is nothing for a charitable donation for tax purposes -- and would only make any difference if the Turkey Lady itemizes her taxes rather than takes the standard deduction. Seriously, the rules for tax deductions on charitable donations are much more strict than most people think: http://www.irs.gov/uac/Eight-Tips-for-Deducting-Charitable-Contributions. Another good article is http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2011/06/18/giving-to-charity-great-staying-off-irs-radar-priceless/

And according to #3 on the list provided by the IRS and on the Forbes.com article, since the "donation" was of equal value as the dinner (according to the OP), sister would not get to claim any of the $50 on her taxes as a donation to the church, and if the item were worth more than what she paid, she still couldn't claim anything. It seems that now that sister didn't benefit by getting a turkey dinner, she can actually claim the charitable donation, but only if the church is on the IRS's qualified charities list (it must appear or it won't count).

My point for using a sweater was more this: this is a donation to a charity not a retail purchase. Demanding a refund for a charitable donation in any form is outrageous to me.

Again you are speaking around the issue.  Calling it outrageous doesn't negate that fact that the OP's sister did not receive her item she paid for regardless if it was for charity.

And the fact that something fishy is going on with a Church related function. I'm sure when people think that they are going to get a bait and switch, Church is the last place they would think of. And until the OP's sister gets word otherwise, all fingers point towards that.

[HermioneGranger]

I'd call the church and ask for a replacement or a refund, being as they didn't receive what they had rightfully won and paid for.  If they refused, well, that's what the church gossip mill is for...   

[lowspark]

Good grief, $50 is nothing for a charitable donation for tax purposes -- and would only make any difference if the Turkey Lady itemizes her taxes rather than takes the standard deduction. Seriously, the rules for tax deductions on charitable donations are much more strict than most people think: http://www.irs.gov/uac/Eight-Tips-for-Deducting-Charitable-Contributions. Another good article is http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2011/06/18/giving-to-charity-great-staying-off-irs-radar-priceless/

And according to #3 on the list provided by the IRS and on the Forbes.com article, since the "donation" was of equal value as the dinner (according to the OP), sister would not get to claim any of the $50 on her taxes as a donation to the church, and if the item were worth more than what she paid, she still couldn't claim anything. It seems that now that sister didn't benefit by getting a turkey dinner, she can actually claim the charitable donation, but only if the church is on the IRS's qualified charities list (it must appear or it won't count).

My point for using a sweater was more this: this is a donation to a charity not a retail purchase. Demanding a refund for a charitable donation in any form is outrageous to me.

So by your logic, any charitable organization can offer anything they want in exchange for a donation but has no obligation to actually follow through and make good on their promise. Because, after all, it's outrageous to demand a refund for a charitable donation.

I don't think I can agree with that.

[Sharnita]

OP, am I right in thinking that up until late Thursday sis could have walked in and redeemed her Turkey dinner? That wo uld be when TL got it?  Aand then sis tried to get it?  If that is the case then it is tricky.  It isn't like the church didn't follow htrough at all.

[LazyDaisy]

Good grief, $50 is nothing for a charitable donation for tax purposes -- and would only make any difference if the Turkey Lady itemizes her taxes rather than takes the standard deduction. Seriously, the rules for tax deductions on charitable donations are much more strict than most people think: http://www.irs.gov/uac/Eight-Tips-for-Deducting-Charitable-Contributions. Another good article is http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2011/06/18/giving-to-charity-great-staying-off-irs-radar-priceless/

And according to #3 on the list provided by the IRS and on the Forbes.com article, since the "donation" was of equal value as the dinner (according to the OP), sister would not get to claim any of the $50 on her taxes as a donation to the church, and if the item were worth more than what she paid, she still couldn't claim anything. It seems that now that sister didn't benefit by getting a turkey dinner, she can actually claim the charitable donation, but only if the church is on the IRS's qualified charities list (it must appear or it won't count).

My point for using a sweater was more this: this is a donation to a charity not a retail purchase. Demanding a refund for a charitable donation in any form is outrageous to me.

I'm not understanding the point your trying to make about taxes. I haven't seen anyone say the purchaser (the sister) would be able to claim her purchase as a tax write off.  What I saw was people saying the donar who spent the money for the dinner and then donated it would be able to write off the value of the donation.  And she would be able to write off the amount that she spent.  If she spent $100 for the dinner but someone only paid $50 for it, she would still be able to claim the full $100 donation. 

The fact remains the donor created an arbitrary date for the donation.  As far as anyone on this board is aware, the only place that date was listed was on the receipt the buyer would not have received until after bidding on and winning the auction.  The auction item could have been described as "Full Turkey Dinner from Great Deli"  value of $50 minimum bid $20 with no expiration dates given.

Yes the sister should have fully checked out the receipt when it was received.  But it sounds like she has had some experience with this deli and their gift card practices since her expectation was similar to the managers. 

I used to attend the same auction every year and every year local restaurant donated "Dinner for 4" Value of $200.  But it was well known that you were receiving a gift card for $200 and could choose to use it for lunch, dinner, brunch and spread it over a couple of visits if you liked.  If purchased it, it wouldn't occur to me to immediately check out the document I received and I would have been extremely suprised if it expired within the week I purchased the auction item. 

If the church chooses to not offer a remedy, that is their choice.  But I do think the auction organizer needs to be aware so they can 1)be more clear about any expiration dates on their acution material, 2)find out why the donar felt she had the right to pick up a donated item.  It very well could be that the donar was a worry wart and hated the idea that the meal would be left unclaimed so picked it up and took it to a shelter but someone needs to talk to her about her doing that.

Sorry to confuse you hmmmm, the posts are so happening so quickly I was responding to Zilla bringing up taxes and deductions in post #84 but several people posted before I could and so it seems like I'm bringing it up out of nowhere.

The donor didn't give a gift certificate for any turkey dinner at the deli anytime, it sounds like she gave a Thanksgiving Turkey dinner, and that has a specific date to redeem. We actually don't know who put the "expiration" on there -- there is lots of speculation but even the OP hasn't seen the receipt so doesn't know.

I agree totally with you on the last paragraph.

[Secret]

[/ 2)find out why the donar felt she had the right to pick up a donated item.  It very well could be that the donar was a worry wart and hated the idea that the meal would be left unclaimed so picked it up and took it to a shelter but someone needs to talk to her about her doing that.

This is what I can't understand.  If I donate an item to an auction, I consider it gone from my hands after I turn over the item/gift card.   The dinner was not hers to do ANYTHING with after TurkeyLady handed that receipt or whatever to the committee.  There was absolutely no follow up needed by someone who donated something.  I am donating a pie to a fundraiser next week.  I'm not going to follow up and see how many slices of my pie was sold and if the people who took them home actually ate them.

Something is shady here.

[scansons]

I think sis needs to call the Turkey Lady and ask where her Turkey is.  Depending on the answer, then I would call the church and tell all.  Which is to say that unless the aliens took over her body, and made her take the turkey dinner to the homeless shelter, I'd be calling the church to explain what happened.  But I sure would want to hear it from Turkey Lady first.  It is possible there is a good reason.  I don't know what that could possibly be.  But I think the taker of the Turkey that wasn't her's needs to be the one to make good. 

[Lynn2000]

Wow, the replies are just flying... Just to follow up on what Hmmmmm said... I'm wondering when Sis could have become aware of the (very soon) expiration date for the dinner. Was it stated on the auction card that she had a chance to look at, or was she only informed of it when she was given the voucher, after she paid her money? (I know she didn't actually realize there was an expiration date until later, but I'm wondering when the first time someone could have known about it was.)

I mean, let's say I'm walking around the church auction and I see a card for "Turkey dinner from Joe's Deli, XYZ components, $50 value." No expiration date mentioned. While I might consider that there could be an expiration date, I wouldn't reasonably assume it was any time soon. So I bid and I win and I hand someone my check and in return I'm handed the voucher, and at that point, I see for the first time that the dinner must be picked up within just a few days. And that just doesn't work for me, because I'm going out of town (not unusual for Thanksgiving) or something else. Basically, the expiration date would've been an easy piece of information to include in the initial description, and if I had seen it, I wouldn't have bid on this item.

Now, maybe I decide to just let the church keep the $50, and I think of it as a pure donation that I get nothing in return for. But even so I would want to let them know that I was disappointed with the poor communication. I would think the organizers would want to know about that. Because next time there's a church auction, I'm going to be walking around looking at things and thinking, "Hmm, this is nice, but I wonder what the 'catch' might be," and I'll be less likely to bid on anything.