Author Topic: A Question for the Historians Among Us  (Read 1243 times)

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Dr. F.

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A Question for the Historians Among Us
« on: November 26, 2012, 06:40:10 PM »
In the course of some amateur genealogy, I came across a notation of an ancestor who was killed by his slave. Apparently the slave caused a hog to squeal at night, the ancestor, Capt. Charles Thorne, ran out to investigate and was murdered. Why? What's the big deal about a hog squealing? What am I missing here?

doodlemor

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Re: A Question for the Historians Among Us
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2012, 06:45:13 PM »
I'm not a history ace, but I have read a bit.  I think that the hog squealed because it was frightened.  I suspect that the hog was about to be stolen by the slave.

I once read a book about early pioneers in the mountains.  They heard the horrific screaming when their hogs were attacked and stolen by a gang of *bears.*

P12663

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Re: A Question for the Historians Among Us
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2012, 07:07:10 PM »
Not history so much as farmers - if your livestock makes a fuss in the middle of the night, something is very wrong, and you need to check it out!

misha412

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Re: A Question for the Historians Among Us
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2012, 12:14:19 AM »
I have to agree with doodle. It was likely the hog was objecting to what the slave was doing, which likely was trying to remove it from its pen. The good captain likely caught the slave with the hog out of the pen. Thus, the slave likely slew the captain because he got caught thieving.


Margo

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Re: A Question for the Historians Among Us
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2012, 07:50:47 AM »
Yup. Squealing hog in the night would imply something wrong, whether bears / wolves / thieves

It would be fascinating to know whether there was any record of what, if any explanation or defence the slave gave. (if he was given the chance to give any)

misha412

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Re: A Question for the Historians Among Us
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2012, 08:07:40 AM »
If the situation was handled by the courts and not as a private matter, then there may be outstanding records in court records. Of course, older court records may not exist in some areas for any number of reasons. But it would be interesting to know more.

Melle

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Re: A Question for the Historians Among Us
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2012, 11:08:33 AM »
I've been unfortunate enough to hear a hog being manhandled squeal firsthand. It's a harrowing sound not unlike human screams. That would certainly get me out of bed to check out what's happening.

Winterlight

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Re: A Question for the Historians Among Us
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2012, 11:27:15 AM »
Not history so much as farmers - if your livestock makes a fuss in the middle of the night, something is very wrong, and you need to check it out!

Exactly.

My parents have dogs and live in Alaska. There's a certain note that tells my parents to go check on what they're barking at- usually it's moose but a couple of times it's been a bear.
If wisdom’s ways you wisely seek,
Five things observe with care,
To whom you speak,
Of whom you speak,
And how, and when, and where.
Caroline Lake Ingalls

VorFemme

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Re: A Question for the Historians Among Us
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2012, 11:32:37 AM »
Dad grew up on a farm.

If your farm animals make any noise at night - they are being upset by something.  A hungry predator in the hen house, pig yard, or barn could mean a hungry farm family that winter (or a broke one if those were the "cash crop" and they lived in a time & place when subsistence farming was no longer the rule).  Upset dairy animals dry up and there goes the milk, butter, and cheese.......again - either your food or your "cash crop".

So the farmer was wise to run out to see what was going on - and unlucky enough that the slave slew him.  If it had been a bear, a wolf, or a human predator unknown to him, he could still have ended up dead - but probably recognized the slave and thought that the slave was there to "help" him instead of helping himself to the pig......

Let sleeping dragons be.......morning breath......need I say more?

Hawkwatcher

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Re: A Question for the Historians Among Us
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2012, 11:31:19 PM »
I have to agree with doodle. It was likely the hog was objecting to what the slave was doing, which likely was trying to remove it from its pen. The good captain likely caught the slave with the hog out of the pen. Thus, the slave likely slew the captain because he got caught thieving.

I agree that the hog was objecting to what the slave was doing.  Stealing and killing livestock were among the various forms of resistance that slaves resisted slavery. 

mandycorn

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Re: A Question for the Historians Among Us
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2012, 12:41:55 AM »
I have to agree with doodle. It was likely the hog was objecting to what the slave was doing, which likely was trying to remove it from its pen. The good captain likely caught the slave with the hog out of the pen. Thus, the slave likely slew the captain because he got caught thieving.

I agree that the hog was objecting to what the slave was doing.  Stealing and killing livestock were among the various forms of resistance that slaves resisted slavery.

That's good to know. I think I must watch too many modern crime shows because my first thought was that the slave made the hog squeal to draw the farmer outside with the intention of murdering him.
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blue2000

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Re: A Question for the Historians Among Us
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2012, 08:16:51 AM »
I have to agree with doodle. It was likely the hog was objecting to what the slave was doing, which likely was trying to remove it from its pen. The good captain likely caught the slave with the hog out of the pen. Thus, the slave likely slew the captain because he got caught thieving.

I agree that the hog was objecting to what the slave was doing.  Stealing and killing livestock were among the various forms of resistance that slaves resisted slavery.

That's good to know. I think I must watch too many modern crime shows because my first thought was that the slave made the hog squeal to draw the farmer outside with the intention of murdering him.

That was my thought, too. Maybe we are just a bit paranoid?
You are only young once. After that you have to think up some other excuse.

Sophia

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Re: A Question for the Historians Among Us
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2012, 10:43:42 AM »
I have to agree with doodle. It was likely the hog was objecting to what the slave was doing, which likely was trying to remove it from its pen. The good captain likely caught the slave with the hog out of the pen. Thus, the slave likely slew the captain because he got caught thieving.

I agree that the hog was objecting to what the slave was doing.  Stealing and killing livestock were among the various forms of resistance that slaves resisted slavery.

That's good to know. I think I must watch too many modern crime shows because my first thought was that the slave made the hog squeal to draw the farmer outside with the intention of murdering him.

That was my thought, too. Maybe we are just a bit paranoid?

Well, the farmer ended up dead, and the slave could most likely have ran and gotten quickly to someplace reasonable for him to be, like an outhouse.  So, I think the answer is No, not paranoid.