Author Topic: I am confessing I snapped at someone - I resigned # 45 update #61 and #121  (Read 29956 times)

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BarensMom

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Re: I am confessing I snapped at someone and was rude to them
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2012, 11:20:14 AM »
OP, the only thing I would suggest in any conversations you have about this is that you tread lightly when pointing out that you're a volunteer. Organizations can and should still request and require improvements and standards in work even if the people doing the work are doing so for free. If you feel the requirements are excessive or the people enforcing them are unreasonable, you may express it or you may quit, but whether or not you're doing the work as a volunteer or a paid employee is irrelevant.

I do think your idea of asking for an improvement meeting for after the holidays is a great solution.

As a volunteer, OP may be providing services that organization may otherwise have to pay for.  For example, OP may have extensive experience in that particular database program.  Would TPTB of an organization want to lose an experienced volunteer because she was being harassed and bullied?  Would they want that to become public knowledge?

Eden

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Re: I am confessing I snapped at someone and was rude to them
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2012, 12:29:46 PM »
OP, the only thing I would suggest in any conversations you have about this is that you tread lightly when pointing out that you're a volunteer. Organizations can and should still request and require improvements and standards in work even if the people doing the work are doing so for free. If you feel the requirements are excessive or the people enforcing them are unreasonable, you may express it or you may quit, but whether or not you're doing the work as a volunteer or a paid employee is irrelevant.

I do think your idea of asking for an improvement meeting for after the holidays is a great solution.

As a volunteer, OP may be providing services that organization may otherwise have to pay for.  For example, OP may have extensive experience in that particular database program.  Would TPTB of an organization want to lose an experienced volunteer because she was being harassed and bullied?  Would they want that to become public knowledge?

I must confess I don't know the acronym TPTB  :-[

I haven't seen any evidence of harassment or bullying. Annoying pestering? Yes.

Again I do think it's reasonable and appropriate for the OP to request a formal process or scheduled review rather than having to field the board member's "ad hoc" and potentially ineffective suggestions as they come. I just think the fact that the OP is a volunteer has nothing to do with the situation. Yes it's a kindness to the organization but it's still appropriate for the organization to have a say in how it is done. Whether or not the OP is paid for it is moot.

rashea

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Re: I am confessing I snapped at someone and was rude to them
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2012, 12:32:53 PM »
I must confess I don't know the acronym TPTB  :-[

TPTB = The Powers That Be
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Eden

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Re: I am confessing I snapped at someone and was rude to them
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2012, 02:26:21 PM »
Thank you, Rashea!

O'Dell

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Re: I am confessing I snapped at someone and was rude to them
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2012, 02:57:16 PM »
OP, the only thing I would suggest in any conversations you have about this is that you tread lightly when pointing out that you're a volunteer. Organizations can and should still request and require improvements and standards in work even if the people doing the work are doing so for free. If you feel the requirements are excessive or the people enforcing them are unreasonable, you may express it or you may quit, but whether or not you're doing the work as a volunteer or a paid employee is irrelevant.

I do think your idea of asking for an improvement meeting for after the holidays is a great solution.

As a volunteer, OP may be providing services that organization may otherwise have to pay for.  For example, OP may have extensive experience in that particular database program.  Would TPTB of an organization want to lose an experienced volunteer because she was being harassed and bullied?  Would they want that to become public knowledge?

I must confess I don't know the acronym TPTB  :-[

I haven't seen any evidence of harassment or bullying. Annoying pestering? Yes.

Again I do think it's reasonable and appropriate for the OP to request a formal process or scheduled review rather than having to field the board member's "ad hoc" and potentially ineffective suggestions as they come. I just think the fact that the OP is a volunteer has nothing to do with the situation. Yes it's a kindness to the organization but it's still appropriate for the organization to have a say in how it is done. Whether or not the OP is paid for it is moot.

I think it is relevant. There is a different dynamic between a volunteer and employee vs. a member of the board. The woman can natter at POF all she wants while POF is on the clock as an employee. She's wasting a volunteers *personal* time when she pesters POF.

I too am glad you aren't apologizing.
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.
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pierrotlunaire0

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Re: I am confessing I snapped at someone and was rude to them
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2012, 03:48:13 PM »
I think it matters very much if you are paid or a volunteer.  If you are providing a service that is valuable to the organization, and if you are compliant to the guidelines, then it sounds like this woman is creating chaos by interfering with you completing the work.  And if you are a volunteer, then what is to stop you from walking out and never coming back?
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Julian

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Re: I am confessing I snapped at someone and was rude to them
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2012, 04:08:44 PM »
OP, I'm another POD to 'don't think you were rude'.

Dee reminds me of a lot of people I meet through work.  These days I'm a data analyst.  Some folk, when they find out what you can get from data, have some sort of Eureka moment and all of a sudden have a blinding need to over-analyse everything.  Things that really are irrelevant, and take a lot of time and effort.  And a lot of things that are downright impossible.  And yeah, they will keep badgering and harassing, often rephrasing the same request in different terms. 

I also suspect there is a lack of knowledge in how data happens - collecting, entering data is time consuming.  Particularly if there is need for modification of the database to enter particular fields.  Analysis can take longer again.


bah12

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Re: I am confessing I snapped at someone and was rude to them
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2012, 04:20:24 PM »
OP, the only thing I would suggest in any conversations you have about this is that you tread lightly when pointing out that you're a volunteer. Organizations can and should still request and require improvements and standards in work even if the people doing the work are doing so for free. If you feel the requirements are excessive or the people enforcing them are unreasonable, you may express it or you may quit, but whether or not you're doing the work as a volunteer or a paid employee is irrelevant.

I do think your idea of asking for an improvement meeting for after the holidays is a great solution.

As a volunteer, OP may be providing services that organization may otherwise have to pay for.  For example, OP may have extensive experience in that particular database program.  Would TPTB of an organization want to lose an experienced volunteer because she was being harassed and bullied?  Would they want that to become public knowledge?

I must confess I don't know the acronym TPTB  :-[

I haven't seen any evidence of harassment or bullying. Annoying pestering? Yes.

Again I do think it's reasonable and appropriate for the OP to request a formal process or scheduled review rather than having to field the board member's "ad hoc" and potentially ineffective suggestions as they come. I just think the fact that the OP is a volunteer has nothing to do with the situation. Yes it's a kindness to the organization but it's still appropriate for the organization to have a say in how it is done. Whether or not the OP is paid for it is moot.

I think it is relevant. There is a different dynamic between a volunteer and employee vs. a member of the board. The woman can natter at POF all she wants while POF is on the clock as an employee. She's wasting a volunteers *personal* time when she pesters POF.

I too am glad you aren't apologizing.

I agree with Eden in this.  There is a difference between "making suggestions" and "bullying" and I don't think it's necessarily out of line for someone to make suggestions on work that is done by a volunteer.  Where it does make a difference is in the expectations for a volunteer to follow through.  And TPTB may choose that it's more important to have the work done for free than it is to require that certain changes, that may be good but too time consuming for a volunteer to do, be made.

I don't blame the OP for feeling harrassed and overwhelmed by all these suggestions.  But it's all in the delivery...on both ends.  For example:

Suggestor:  I have a suggestion for the database.  Why don't you do X
OP: Thank you for the suggestion but I have experience doing that and it actually doesn't work that well.

or

OP: Thank you for the suggestion and while it's a good one, I don't have the time or the resources to implement that.  I am a volunteer and cannot dedicate any more time than I already do.

But if the Suggestor is being a bully and harrassing the OP, then that is the conversation she needs to have with the President.   The problem wouldn't necessarily be that someone is making suggestions, but the manner in how they are doing it.  And if the problem is the frequency of the suggestions, then the answer may be some sort of policy on how and when suggestions are offered.

I work with both volunteers and paid employees and I don't differentiate between the two when I make suggestions on improment for work that they do.  And I treat each with the same respect.  The only difference is that I can require a paid employee to do what I suggest, regardless of their opinion, that I can't do with a volunteer.  But I don't temper suggestions for improvement based on hiring status.

O'Dell

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Re: I am confessing I snapped at someone and was rude to them
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2012, 04:48:29 PM »
OP, the only thing I would suggest in any conversations you have about this is that you tread lightly when pointing out that you're a volunteer. Organizations can and should still request and require improvements and standards in work even if the people doing the work are doing so for free. If you feel the requirements are excessive or the people enforcing them are unreasonable, you may express it or you may quit, but whether or not you're doing the work as a volunteer or a paid employee is irrelevant.

I do think your idea of asking for an improvement meeting for after the holidays is a great solution.

As a volunteer, OP may be providing services that organization may otherwise have to pay for.  For example, OP may have extensive experience in that particular database program.  Would TPTB of an organization want to lose an experienced volunteer because she was being harassed and bullied?  Would they want that to become public knowledge?

I must confess I don't know the acronym TPTB  :-[

I haven't seen any evidence of harassment or bullying. Annoying pestering? Yes.

Again I do think it's reasonable and appropriate for the OP to request a formal process or scheduled review rather than having to field the board member's "ad hoc" and potentially ineffective suggestions as they come. I just think the fact that the OP is a volunteer has nothing to do with the situation. Yes it's a kindness to the organization but it's still appropriate for the organization to have a say in how it is done. Whether or not the OP is paid for it is moot.

I think it is relevant. There is a different dynamic between a volunteer and employee vs. a member of the board. The woman can natter at POF all she wants while POF is on the clock as an employee. She's wasting a volunteers *personal* time when she pesters POF.

I too am glad you aren't apologizing.

I agree with Eden in this.  There is a difference between "making suggestions" and "bullying" and I don't think it's necessarily out of line for someone to make suggestions on work that is done by a volunteer.  Where it does make a difference is in the expectations for a volunteer to follow through.  And TPTB may choose that it's more important to have the work done for free than it is to require that certain changes, that may be good but too time consuming for a volunteer to do, be made.

I don't blame the OP for feeling harrassed and overwhelmed by all these suggestions.  But it's all in the delivery...on both ends.  For example:

Suggestor:  I have a suggestion for the database.  Why don't you do X
OP: Thank you for the suggestion but I have experience doing that and it actually doesn't work that well.

or

OP: Thank you for the suggestion and while it's a good one, I don't have the time or the resources to implement that.  I am a volunteer and cannot dedicate any more time than I already do.

But if the Suggestor is being a bully and harrassing the OP, then that is the conversation she needs to have with the President.   The problem wouldn't necessarily be that someone is making suggestions, but the manner in how they are doing it.  And if the problem is the frequency of the suggestions, then the answer may be some sort of policy on how and when suggestions are offered.

I work with both volunteers and paid employees and I don't differentiate between the two when I make suggestions on improment for work that they do.  And I treat each with the same respect.  The only difference is that I can require a paid employee to do what I suggest, regardless of their opinion, that I can't do with a volunteer.  But I don't temper suggestions for improvement based on hiring status.

Sure you can make suggestions to volunteers and employees alike. But that is not what we are talking about here. POF was clear in her OP that this woman tries to tell her what to do and pesters her and takes up the time she devotes to the organization. That time the woman pesters her is volunteered. In this case it matters very much that POF is a volunteer for all the reasons given.

I can tell you that suggestions/demands/pestering are perceived differently depending on whether I'm a volunteer or employee. Heck, if reasonable suggestions are made until the point where the job I've volunteered for becomes a burden, I might quit where for an income I have greater motivation for making it work.
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.
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BarensMom

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Re: I am confessing I snapped at someone and was rude to them
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2012, 05:02:02 PM »
I went and looked up the word "harass" in the dictionary.  The definition includes "(1) to trouble, worry, or torment, as with cares, debts, repeated questions, etc.  (2) to trouble by repeated raids or attacks."

Going by what was described in the original post, the OP is being harassed by this woman.

bah12

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Re: I am confessing I snapped at someone and was rude to them
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2012, 05:13:01 PM »
Sure you can make suggestions to volunteers and employees alike. But that is not what we are talking about here. POF was clear in her OP that this woman tries to tell her what to do and pesters her and takes up the time she devotes to the organization. That time the woman pesters her is volunteered. In this case it matters very much that POF is a volunteer for all the reasons given.

I can tell you that suggestions/demands/pestering are perceived differently depending on whether I'm a volunteer or employee. Heck, if reasonable suggestions are made until the point where the job I've volunteered for becomes a burden, I might quit where for an income I have greater motivation for making it work.

Then the problem is the pestering.  Volunteering or not, pestering and taking up valuable work time is an issue.  If a paid employee complained that someone was taking too much time pestering them about the work that they do and in interferes with the time that they could be doing the work, that would be a problem.  Which is why I ( and Eden) suggested that a policy for how and when suggestions are made are a good suggstion.

And yes, there is a difference in how a volunteer may react vs a paid employee.  But even as a volunteer, I wouldn't presume that no one can tell me what to do or make suggestions for improvements on my work ever. I may have more power in that I can leave if I don't like the suggestions, but it's not wrong to make the suggestions so long as they are done in a respectful manner.  The respect part seems to be issue the here (and the frequency), but again, a volunteer shouldn't expect that no one will ever ask/tell them to do something differently.  It's unrealistic.

O'Dell

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Re: I am confessing I snapped at someone and was rude to them
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2012, 05:22:35 PM »
Maybe I'm reading you all wrong then. If you are saying that harassment is harassment and doesn't matter if the person is a volunteer or employee, then I agree with that. But when the volunteer decides what to do about it, it matters very much that they are a volunteer with limited time and patience to devote to sorting it all out.

And the dynamics all along are very different, in my experience.
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Eden

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Re: I am confessing I snapped at someone and was rude to them
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2012, 05:33:30 PM »
Sure you can make suggestions to volunteers and employees alike. But that is not what we are talking about here. POF was clear in her OP that this woman tries to tell her what to do and pesters her and takes up the time she devotes to the organization. That time the woman pesters her is volunteered. In this case it matters very much that POF is a volunteer for all the reasons given.

I'm not saying it's okay for the woman to pester her. Please see from my previous posts that I support addressing this. This is an approach and efficiency issue that I would support addressing whether or not the OP was paid.

I can tell you that suggestions/demands/pestering are perceived differently depending on whether I'm a volunteer or employee. Heck, if reasonable suggestions are made until the point where the job I've volunteered for becomes a burden, I might quit where for an income I have greater motivation for making it work.

Absolutely. But that's about the OP not the organization. It's relevant only to the OP.

The reason I suggested treading lightly is that I've seen people walk a fine line between "I'm afraid I can't commit to that" and "You should be happy with what you get, because it's free after all." I just think it's the most effective and appropriate to leave the fact that you're a volunteer out of any discussions. The most I could see it being appropriate is in letting the organization know that you can't commit any more personal time than you have and if they need more they will need to get additional volunteers or find someone else. Beyond that I'm afraid I do think it's irrelevant.

O'Dell

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Re: I am confessing I snapped at someone and was rude to them
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2012, 05:37:09 PM »
Well we agree then. It's just that I call it relevant because of the things you posted. I'm not sure why you say all those things make it relevant and yet say it's irrelevant.  ???

ETA: Do you mean the volunteer aspect is better left unspoken rather than it's irrelevant? Because that's what I'm getting from your wording and I agree that is a better way to approach it. That however doesn't change the dynamics that being a volunteer brings into the situation.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 05:38:54 PM by O'Dell »
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.
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Eden

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Re: I am confessing I snapped at someone and was rude to them
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2012, 05:40:18 PM »
Maybe I'm reading you all wrong then. If you are saying that harassment is harassment and doesn't matter if the person is a volunteer or employee, then I agree with that. But when the volunteer decides what to do about it, it matters very much that they are a volunteer with limited time and patience to devote to sorting it all out.

And the dynamics all along are very different, in my experience.

Yes. That's essentially what I'm saying. I don't think whether or not the OP is a volunteer is relevant to include in addressing this issue. I do think on a personal level it's relevant to the OP and would be to me as well.