New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy

[AngelBarchild]

ewww, how creepy.

I think her age is not relevant (only the fact that she is considerably older than your dh). i think that the outfit she wore is not relevant (whether it is or isn't appropriate for women over X years to dress like that). references to her "hormonal irrationality" suggested by Calypso are also irrelevant.

the fact is she is making the moves on a married man, she is being extremely disrespectful of a married couple, and - seriously? cat calling and wolf whistling? sorry, btu that is very very very wrong.

I agree with PPs who say that you (dh) needs to tell her to stop, now. and then you need to take this up the chain. document document because you never know when/how crazy she will get.

Other than the age issue, her attire IS relevant because it showed she was trying to come on to him.

If she didn't know he was married when she came to the door.... why is it wrong for her to come on to him?

Actually, I don't even think it's wrong for her to come on to him even now that she knows he's married, to be honest.

It's acceptable to come on to a married man? It's okay to try to break up a marriage?

Well, some people are in to that sort of thing.... there's a whole website devoted to married people looking for someone else.

Like I said earlier, how is she supposed to know he doesn't want her to come on to him, unless he asks her not to? Sure, most people don't come on to someone they know is married, but not everyone... and it doesn't make them rude. Catcalling, I agree with... but the general flirting, etc. is not rude in my book.

I'm agree with Girly.  Married /= monogamous now days. I don't see how anyone expects this woman to stop flirting without telling her he's not interested. People need to use words, not expect others to be mind readers.

i think she has gone beyond harmless flirting when she uses cat calling, wolf whistling and balcony stalking-in-a-robe.

and jsut because there is a web site devoted to a past-time, doesn't make that past time ok. i also don't think that married / = monogamous. there are things that are wrong - and just because people do them (like stealing, or cheating, or shop lifting) doesn't mean they are ok.

I definitely agree that she should be told to stop but her behavior is still creepy.

I think the catcalling thing rude, I was only talking about the flirting. My comment that  married / = monogamous was not about cheating people have all kinds of complicated relationships. Truthfully though, I believe the onus not to engage inappropriate behavior* is on the person in the relationship. I don't think it's too much to expect to be told if someone doesn't want to be flirted with. This whole thing seems like a big communication fail.

*inappropriate by the rules of your relationship

[NyaChan]

Married does not necessarily mean people are monogamous.  I totally get that, people do have open marriages.  But I don't think it is so prevalent that the default is to flirt with a married person until they tell you that their marriage is not open.  I think you back off when you find someone is married unless they indicate to you that they are okay with this sort of relationship. 

[Firecat]

Married and single people flirt all the time.

I agree with this - I am a major flirt, as is my SO.  But I would never do what this woman is doing, which is not "flirting" in my book.  I used that term because we as a board had been using it to describe her behavior, but what she is doing is not flirting in my view.  Flirting is innocent and fun.  Coming on to someone, catcalling them, making it clear you want something outside the public realm, is not flirting.

Flirting can definitely be fun and innocent. Some of our male friends flirt with me, knowing I'm married, but we all know that flirting is all it's going to be - and I try never to say or do anything I wouldn't do or say in the presence of my DH. Actually, sometimes my DH is present.

What this woman is doing is way beyond that, and since she apparently doesn't realize (or doesn't care) that it's inappropriate and the OP's DH doesn't like it, I think he'd be doing everyone a favor by telling her once, directly, that it's not appreciated. After that, it depends on what she does in response. Hopefully she'll avoid the OP and her DH afterwards, but it's possible she might escalate, and then they can act accordingly.

[Calypso]

I have to admit, when the OP said an "older" woman I mentally defaulted to "older than me," and I'm coming up on 53  so, to me, late 40s sounds comparatively spring chicken-ish. I was picturing something else.....but Tammy clearly believes (or, did believe, before she knew DH was married) that she could be Demi Moore to his Ashton Kutcher (pre break up).

And, OP, I'm really glad she can't harass you with a landlord. That helps a lot!

I hope nobody says something to get this thread locked, because I must admit I look forward to the updates 

[Tea Drinker]

POD NyaChan: Enough married people are monogamous that outside a very few contexts (and an apartment complex is not such a context), it's not prudent or kind to assume otherwise. You can ask, politely, but only if you're prepared for a response along the lines "How can you even think that?!

The neighbor here didn't send a note saying something like "I know you're married, but if it's open, I'm interested" or ask directly "so, you're married, does that mean you're monogamous?" Nor did she wait for OP or her husband to say something (in the universe next door where they have that kind of relationship, and if he was interested, he could send a note inviting her to meet them for a cup of coffee, and maybe take it from there). But there seem to be a lot of single people who will happily make passes at married people, and back off if the answer is "sure, but I have to talk to my wife/husband about it."

[rose red]

I hope nobody says something to get this thread locked, because I must admit I look forward to the updates 

Me too.

We can't tell the woman to stop or tell her what's right and wrong because she's not the one on Ehell, so perhaps we should get back on topic with suggestions and phases that the OP and her DH can use to get this woman to back off.

[Girly]

I hope nobody says something to get this thread locked, because I must admit I look forward to the updates 

Me too.

We can't tell the woman to stop or tell her what's right and wrong because she's not the one on Ehell, so perhaps we should get back on topic with suggestions and phases that the OP and her DH can use to get this woman to back off.

Well, since she's flirting with the husband, and not the OP, I'd say the husband should start with 'Thanks, but I'm married'  or 'Tempting, but I'm married!' or something similar when they are up close. If you give her a gracious way out, she'd probably be more receptive (even though you don't have to be!).

If she continues to catcall on the balcony, put up the screen when she starts. Yelling back at  her across balconies (30 ft. away) will get you nowhere, and probably annoy other neighbors even further.

I wouldn't advise the OP to say anything to this woman, as she's already demonstrated she doesn't really care the Husband is married, and would probably just dismiss the OP's comments as a jealous wife.

[CaptainObvious]

Until her Husband says something, the woman will not stop. She obviously does not care that he is married and subtle hints won't get it.

[Firecat]

I actually wouldn't advise using "I'm married," as a method of turning her down. If only because that leaves her room to think "Oh, he totally wants me. Now if the inconvenient wife were, say, out of town..."

I think it would be better for the DH to tell her clearly that he is not interested; just that, with no caveats or reasons.

[SoCalVal]

I think it's noteworthy that Peeping Tammy is a renter.  My suggestion is for DH to state once (verbally or in a letter), "Leave me alone.  Leave my wife alone.  I am not interested in being your friend or in any of your attention.  Further attempts at contact will result in contacting your landlord."  Should this not work, contact the landlord.  Ownership of the apartment should be publicly available, and the landlord would be responsible for reining in his bothersome tenant.

Years ago, a friend of mine had new neighbors 2-3 doors down who would have a loud party in their backyard every weekend -- seriously, EVERY weekend with loud music blaring.  You couldn't be in his house and not hear the music.  One day, the parties ended.  Why?  Apparently, the owners of the house were renting it out and had rented it to a group of young guys who either really didn't care or consider how their loud parties EVERY DARN WEEKEND were affecting the qualify of life in the neighborhood.  Well, one of the other homeowners in the neighborhood either knew the owners or knew a relative of the owners and had the complaint conveyed.  I'm not sure if the guys continued to live there or were evicted, but the end result is the obnoxious behavior stopped.

Basically, Peeping Tammy's landlord should be able to make the behavior stop if she doesn't stop herself.

[cicero]

ewww, how creepy.

I think her age is not relevant (only the fact that she is considerably older than your dh). i think that the outfit she wore is not relevant (whether it is or isn't appropriate for women over X years to dress like that). references to her "hormonal irrationality" suggested by Calypso are also irrelevant.

the fact is she is making the moves on a married man, she is being extremely disrespectful of a married couple, and - seriously? cat calling and wolf whistling? sorry, btu that is very very very wrong.

I agree with PPs who say that you (dh) needs to tell her to stop, now. and then you need to take this up the chain. document document because you never know when/how crazy she will get.

Other than the age issue, her attire IS relevant because it showed she was trying to come on to him.

Or she may just have bad taste in clothes.  Seriously, the sum total of her behavior is inappropriate, and her outfit sends a message in the context of all that (especially if that's not the way she dresses every other day), but I don't want us to end up on a slippery slope where we assume every woman dressed "sexy" is doing it to hit on a specific guy.

thank you. i think that's what i was trying to say

[weeblewobble]

I actually wouldn't advise using "I'm married," as a method of turning her down. If only because that leaves her room to think "Oh, he totally wants me. Now if the inconvenient wife were, say, out of town..."

I think it would be better for the DH to tell her clearly that he is not interested; just that, with no caveats or reasons.

Yep, almost every personal safety book/expert will tell you not to put a person up as a "shield" between you and someone who has an inappropriate level of interest in you.  Because that basically puts a target on that shield's back, turning the creep's anger and hostility and energy toward getting rid of that person so the creep and his/her interest can be together.

[Girly]

I actually wouldn't advise using "I'm married," as a method of turning her down. If only because that leaves her room to think "Oh, he totally wants me. Now if the inconvenient wife were, say, out of town..."

I think it would be better for the DH to tell her clearly that he is not interested; just that, with no caveats or reasons.

Yep, almost every personal safety book/expert will tell you not to put a person up as a "shield" between you and someone who has an inappropriate level of interest in you.  Because that basically puts a target on that shield's back, turning the creep's anger and hostility and energy toward getting rid of that person so the creep and his/her interest can be together.

While she has participated in some odd and inappropriate behavior, I'm not sure this lady is a 'creep', and they need to take personal safety into account here.....

[Firecat]

I actually wouldn't advise using "I'm married," as a method of turning her down. If only because that leaves her room to think "Oh, he totally wants me. Now if the inconvenient wife were, say, out of town..."

I think it would be better for the DH to tell her clearly that he is not interested; just that, with no caveats or reasons.

Yep, almost every personal safety book/expert will tell you not to put a person up as a "shield" between you and someone who has an inappropriate level of interest in you.  Because that basically puts a target on that shield's back, turning the creep's anger and hostility and energy toward getting rid of that person so the creep and his/her interest can be together.

While she has participated in some odd and inappropriate behavior, I'm not sure this lady is a 'creep', and they need to take personal safety into account here.....

I'm not sure she isn't either...and I don't think it's ever a bad thing to take personal safety into account. Besides that, I just think it's better to be very, very clear in situations like this one. If for no other reason than because it seems like the neighbor's social skills may be a bit lacking, and so clarity is more likely to be effective.

[ilrag]

Regardless of the marriage/monogamy issue  I think we can all agree that the most logical first step is to have the husband tell the neighbor he's not interested in her and doesn't like the attention and to please not speak to him while he is lifting weights.