Author Topic: Please Don't Kick My Dog...  (Read 13097 times)

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mmswm

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Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2012, 09:08:47 PM »
My mother is terrified of large dogs.  Well, all large dogs except one (dearly departed) Japanese Akita/St. Bernard mix who topped the scales at 175lbs (he was my first "baby").  Years ago, she may have reacted the same way that the lady did and would have been highly offended at being "scolded".  While I don't think the OP was out of line in saying something, even what she said, perhaps a better response would have been something in a more soothing tone, reassuring her that the dog was controlled and she was perfectly safe.  Something like that might even open the door to a discussion about how kicking like that is perceived by the dog as an act of aggression, and an unrestrained dog might react badly.  That's the kind of discussion that eventually allowed my mother to control her response to large dogs when she's out in public.  Sometimes, a little education on a topic is all that's needed to, if not overcome a fear, to at least be able to cope with it more effectively.
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O'Dell

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Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2012, 09:17:18 PM »
I love dogs but in this situation as the dog owner I'd be tempted to laugh at the absurdity of an elderly woman taking 2 attempted "kicks" at a leashed dog 10 feet away. AND then I'd immediately feel bad because she must be terrified to do such a silly thing and I'd ignore or say something friendly to her. I think it was wrong to scold her. Not only because she did not and could not have done harm from that distance, but because there was no need to do more than walk your dog away from the situation. The scolding was aggressive.
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bonyk

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Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2012, 09:30:12 PM »
I'm also on the fence.  On the one hand the lady wasn't close enough to really hurt the dog, and was really just kicking the air.  On the other hand. . . kicking "at" something can be considered a threat.  Not a serious threat, but if someone threatened my pet to any degree I'd probably be pretty quick to defend her.

Hmmmmm

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Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2012, 10:36:52 PM »
I really on the fence too.  Part of my issue is trying to envision the woman's air kicks.  I'm seeing them as a "shoo, shoo" type reaction because I can't imagine a scared person stopping long enough to make accurately aimed kicks or wanting to really confront a large dog. 

If the woman had used her hands and did a shoo, shoo type motion (cant come up with a better description) would people feel she was in the wrong?

I know if the woman had a stick and started swinging that in the direction of my dog, I'd be upset, but just winging a body part wouldn't bother me. 

Bijou

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Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2012, 11:04:24 PM »
Looking at it from the lady's viewpoint...
She is a stranger to the dog.  Can a 70 lb dog be difficult to restrain, especially if excited or, heaven forbid, acting aggressive?  And as someone else mentioned, the length of the leash comes into question. 
The op may have felt she had the dog under control, but the interpretation of a large dancing dog jumping around trying to approach could well send a person into a panic of trying to protect herself.
I wouldn't have admonished the lady for kicking the dog.  It sounds like she was trying to protect herself from a perceived threat probably out of past experience or fear, and according to the OP, she was no where near enough to kick the dog.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 11:10:36 PM by Bijou »
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CrochetFanatic

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Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2012, 12:24:16 AM »
Well, I've got a lot of people saying I did great, and a lot of people telling me I was out of line for saying anything.  It sounds a lot like the conflict that was going on in my head as I made the first post.  :-[  I will say that there wasn't a whole lot of time to think, and my response was also out of reflex.

Someone asked about the length of the leash, and it's about ten feet normally, but I had it wrapped around my hand to only give her about two and a half feet of slack.  It's sort of a hold-over from when she was younger and would be defiant during training.

I think I'll take the advice and have Daisy on my other side when/if I see the woman, and try to stay away from her.

AylaM

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Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2012, 12:34:24 AM »
If the woman had used her hands and did a shoo, shoo type motion (cant come up with a better description) would people feel she was in the wrong?

As a dog owner I'd be annoyed if someone did that to my dog when we were that far out.   It would be like they are assuming that I'm not in control of the dog. I'd not say anything, as it isn't a threatening motion, but the person would probably get some sort of look ranging between "what are you doing" and an offended "excuse me?" 

If the dog actually went up to the stranger, I wouldn't be annoyed at all.  I'd actually be apologetic for allowing the dog to get that close without an invitation.  I can imagine understanding that the person might be scared, but if I had the dog under control they'd definitely get a look.

As far as the OP's situation, I think the immediate admonishment wasn't the best way to go about it.  But I don't blame her for it.  If someone looked like they were preparing to attack my pet I'd not really think through every scenario before saying something.  Being ready to kick is one thing, practicing is another.  One is defensive, the other is aggressive. 

That would be hard to see, so using a more visual example.  If the lady had an umbrella/cane/stick and she tensed up and held it in front of her defensively, looking prepared to strike and attempted to keep distance between them I'd not be too upset.  I'd be more inclined to protect her from the dog.  Taking practice swings in the direction of the animal would be upsetting.  I'd be more inclined to to act like the OP.

But I'd say a better scenario in the OP's case would have been something like:

OP(in shocked & cold way):  "Are you trying to kick my dog?"
Lady:  "Keep that beast away from me!"  or   "Sorry, I'm terrified of all dogs."
OP:  "Do NOT kick my dog"  or "don't worry, I have her under control"


I think I'll take the advice and have Daisy on my other side when/if I see the woman, and try to stay away from her.

That's a good call.  It will hopefully give the lady some reassurance and it will protect your dog at the same time.

kareng57

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Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2012, 12:43:27 AM »
It is likely the case that the woman saw just the dog first and then reacted immediately on a phobia. I would have done the same thing, I am also afraid of dogs and can identify with the woman. It wasn't necessary to scold her, it seems to me she was acting out of a sense of self-preservation. There was no danger to either party, so all in all this situation ended fairly good. There's no need to dwell over it.


I was thinking the exact same thing.  Sometimes it's not even a phobia, it's someone who has experienced an attack/assault from a dog who the owner asserts is "perfectly friendly".

Hollanda

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Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2012, 03:15:39 AM »
I'm not good with dogs. I've had a dog bite me before - not my fault.  It was in my friend's house and the dog's owners gave me the dog's ball to play with her. I gently threw the ball and the dog caught it. She came back to me and put the ball in front of me. I picked the ball up and she lunged at me andbit my arm. Owner immediately managed to get her off me and then explained some things that, had I known earlier, would meant I had never gone near that poor creature. Firstly the dog was a rescue dog that had been abused. Secondly the dog was therefore wary of strangers. Thirdly and most important in my mind. The dog was on medication that caused her to maybe become aggressive but the owners were in"not sure". This was at my friend's house party and the dog was owned by her mother and her fiance. So....all that considered why bring the dog to a situation that was likely to distress her?! I was so shaken that I went into the bathroom to calm down. When I reappeared the dog had been taken homeby friend's mother and they never came back to the party. I am really not great with dogs. I don't get them and I did several times say "I don't like dogs" when asked to play with her. But either I wasn't strong enough at saying it or friend's mum really didn't want to hear it. This was years ago.and now I just don't like to approach any dog, regardless of the owner. I know dog lovers really sometimes don't understand that not everyone is a dog person, fine. But in my situation the owners were irresponsible.

OP I think you were fine.
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strawbabies

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Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2012, 08:47:31 AM »
My husband was attacked by a large dog as a child.  As a result, he has a phobia of just about every big dog that isn't a golden retriever.  We have four small dogs, but large ones scare him.  He does his best to avoid them.  He doesn't go around making kicking motions just because a dog comes near him. 

I don't care if that woman does possibly have a phobia.  What she did was completely uncalled for.  You handled it better than I would have, OP.

WillyNilly

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Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2012, 09:23:55 AM »
A lot of people in this thread have said if the woman is so afraid of dogs she shouldn't go places where they are welcome... I'm curious, what does that mean?  Other then beaches, and one small part of Central Park (Sheep's Meadow), I know of no public outdoor green spaces (parks, etc) that don't allow dogs on leashes.  Sure sometimes paved atrium type places or very specific use trails don't allow any dogs (and lets face it they are brought anyway) but the vast majority of parks and varied use trails always allow dogs IME.  So are many of you saying people who have - often totally justified - fears of dogs should never ever get to go to parks?

I do absolutely understand OP, and many posters on this board, are responsible dog owners who leash and restrain their dogs, but surely you all do understand a huge amount of dog owners are not so responsible and diligent.

The solution should not be people who are fearful of poorly restrained dogs and their irresponsible owners avoid the parks their community offers and that their taxes pay for.  The solution should be with the dog owners.  And if the good dog owners suffer for it, then their annoyance and wrath and irritation, etc should be taken out solely on the irresponsible dog owners, not the fearful innocent people without dogs who are simply trying to enjoy public spaces.

Hmmmmm

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Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2012, 09:28:47 AM »
A lot of people in this thread have said if the woman is so afraid of dogs she shouldn't go places where they are welcome... I'm curious, what does that mean?  Other then beaches, and one small part of Central Park (Sheep's Meadow), I know of no public outdoor green spaces (parks, etc) that don't allow dogs on leashes.  Sure sometimes paved atrium type places or very specific use trails don't allow any dogs (and lets face it they are brought anyway) but the vast majority of parks and varied use trails always allow dogs IME.  So are many of you saying people who have - often totally justified - fears of dogs should never ever get to go to parks?

I do absolutely understand OP, and many posters on this board, are responsible dog owners who leash and restrain their dogs, but surely you all do understand a huge amount of dog owners are not so responsible and diligent.

The solution should not be people who are fearful of poorly restrained dogs and their irresponsible owners avoid the parks their community offers and that their taxes pay for.  The solution should be with the dog owners.  And if the good dog owners suffer for it, then their annoyance and wrath and irritation, etc should be taken out solely on the irresponsible dog owners, not the fearful innocent people without dogs who are simply trying to enjoy public spaces.

I completely agree with you on this point.  The OP called it a walking trail, not a dog park.  Just because dogs aren't banned doesn't mean a walker expects to encounter a rather large dog eager to make their aquantance every time they go to the trail.

Cosmasia

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Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2012, 09:34:03 AM »
Safety trumps etiquette. That lady was in no danger, but your dog was. There's absolutely no reason to try to be polite or sweet or mild with someone who kicks at a dog, regardless of whether they actually manage to hit it. Especially when said dog is on a leash and is doing literally nothing to that person. I'm shocked, honestly, that she had the nerve to do that and then call it a beast. It doesn't matter if she has a phobia, that's her problem to deal with. You don't kick animals who are doing no harm to you, especially someone else's pet.

I'm even more shocked that kicking was her first reaction. If she was phobic she could just as well have stepped back or said "please don't come near". What a horrible person.

Edit: I'd also like to say that kicking while being further away from the dog does not make it okay, it's a threatening action to do to anyone. Not acceptable.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 09:37:32 AM by Cosmasia »
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Hollanda

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Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2012, 09:35:52 AM »
Pod WN. I've also had owners allow their dogs to get right up to my DS in his buggy. I simply ask politely that they do not allow their dog to do that. In addition to my fear that the dog will snap and potentially harm my child there are also the health hazards associated with a dog trying to lick a baby's face! This has happened twice now. DS loves dogs...he laughs and claps when he sees one. So the owner thinks it somehow fine to lead the dog right up to him?? Um no..

But I would never make kicking motions toward a dog.
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sunnygirl

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Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2012, 09:53:21 AM »
Safety trumps etiquette. That lady was in no danger, but your dog was. There's absolutely no reason to try to be polite or sweet or mild with someone who kicks at a dog, regardless of whether they actually manage to hit it. Especially when said dog is on a leash and is doing literally nothing to that person. I'm shocked, honestly, that she had the nerve to do that and then call it a beast. It doesn't matter if she has a phobia, that's her problem to deal with. You don't kick animals who are doing no harm to you, especially someone else's pet.

I'm even more shocked that kicking was her first reaction. If she was phobic she could just as well have stepped back or said "please don't come near". What a horrible person.
How was the dog in such immediate danger for it to be a 'safety trumps etiquette' situation? I don't see how the dog was in any danger from an an elderly woman standing a good distance away - and backing away - making feeble air kicks. She didn't actually kick or attempt to kick the dog. And the woman had no way of knowing whether the dog - who was actively trying to get to her, not "literally doing nothing" - presented a danger to her or not.

Like I said, I don't condone her behaviour. At all. But I think it's important to make a distinction between actual physical abuse (kicking an animal) and what the woman did.