Author Topic: Please Don't Kick My Dog...  (Read 11947 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

bansidhe

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2056
    • The Menagerie
Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #90 on: December 06, 2012, 01:50:02 PM »
If she's genuinely that frightened of dogs, what on earth is she doing hanging out in a place where she's likely to run into them?

But I am very bothered by the bolded part here.  I understand someone with seven dogs wouldn't really be able to relate to someone who geniunionly doesn't like them or is afraid of them.  That doesn't mean she should not have access to a walking trail that was designed for humans to walk on and ALLOWS dogs (instead of the reverse, a dog park designed for dogs).

She can access it all she wants, but she needs to come to terms with the fact that she's going to encounter dogs and she needs to learn how to behave appropriately in that circumstance.

As an example, this isn't a phobia situation, but I'm not overly fond of small children - especially large clusters of them. I'm free to access family restaurants, parks with playgrounds, and Chuck E. Cheese all I want but I tend to either hang out in other places or manage socially acceptable reactions when I encounter small children instead of, say, yellling "Keep your brat away from me!" The latter is just not cool.
Esan ozenki!

Arizona

TurtleDove

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 5633
Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #91 on: December 06, 2012, 02:03:31 PM »
Now, Daisy is about 70 pounds and admittedly looks a bit intimidating to people who first meet her

This is the part that I think some people overlook when judging the woman.  The OP knows her dog is not violent.  Many dog owners would be able to tell that Daisy's tail wagging and lunging was happy and not aggressive.  But for people who are not familiar with animals, or with that particular animal, a dog lunging at them is scary.  It's not annoying (like the "I don't like kids" situation), it is a moment in time where a person fears for their safety.

For me, I doubt I would have reacted exactly how the woman did but I am TERRIFIED of large dogs and my actions trying to put space between them and me, especially when they are moving and I don't know the length of the leash, are self protection because large dogs intimidate and scare me.  I would imagine there have been times my movements when scared were interpreted as aggression by the dog owner, but I can assure you they were not. 

ettiquit

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1662
Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #92 on: December 06, 2012, 02:05:23 PM »
I don't think anybody did anything badly wrong. I think the woman had a phobic reaction, and the OP had a protective one, but at no point did anybody do anything out of line harmful or rude.

I'm scared of dogs. My reaction would be more likely to freeze than anything else, but perhaps she panicked and reacted differently. Had she run up to the dog to behave aggressively it would have been entirely different. Everyone spoke civilly after the fact too. This situation really easily *could* have escalated and didn't which is nice to see.

How is "keep that beast away from me" even remotely civil?

HockeyNut

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 169
Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #93 on: December 06, 2012, 02:15:24 PM »


I don't understand the objection to the woman using the word "beast". A dog, by definition, is a beast.
[/quote]

Many children, by definition, are brats but I've seen people on this board get upset by the use of that word.  Don't insult my dogs & I won't (publicly) insult your children.
OP, you did much better than I would have.  My dogs mean the world to me & I don't take kindly to threats of violence against them.  A question to those who say there was no threat of violence from the older woman - if someone had made kicking motions towards your children would you be upset?  Would you just brush it off as no big deal as some of you have suggested?   Please don't tell me
children are different.  ALL living creatures deserve the same consideration.

rashea

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 9656
Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #94 on: December 06, 2012, 02:17:06 PM »
Now, Daisy is about 70 pounds and admittedly looks a bit intimidating to people who first meet her

This is the part that I think some people overlook when judging the woman.  The OP knows her dog is not violent.  Many dog owners would be able to tell that Daisy's tail wagging and lunging was happy and not aggressive.  But for people who are not familiar with animals, or with that particular animal, a dog lunging at them is scary.  It's not annoying (like the "I don't like kids" situation), it is a moment in time where a person fears for their safety.

I have to agree to a point. OP, I believe Daisy is a boxer? So, a dog like this:


I don't think the woman acted well, but I do think the OP would be best off preparing a short script for using with people who are afraid because appropriate or not, some people do think large dogs, especially breeds like boxers are dangerous. And while I don't condone her actions, the woman isn't here. So, I'm choosing to advise the OP.
"Manners change, principles don't. It's about treating people with consideration, respect and honesty." Peter Post

Vermont

TurtleDove

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 5633
Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #95 on: December 06, 2012, 02:19:29 PM »
Please don't tell me children are different.  ALL living creatures deserve the same consideration.

I agree all living creatures deserve respect, but I think there is a legitimate fear of a large dog with teeth and claws that simply does not exist for a toddler or young child.  So yes, I will say that children are different than large dogs because I believe some people have a legitimate fear of large dogs.  I wasn't there, but from the OP's description, the woman did not threaten violence against the OP's dog. 

TurtleDove

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 5633
Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #96 on: December 06, 2012, 02:21:19 PM »
That dog is beautiful!  For as much as dogs terrify me, I do like to look at photos of them!  Kinda like elephants and tigers and lions - I find them beautiful but I don't want to be in close proximity to them!

Judah

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4769
  • California, U.S.A
Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #97 on: December 06, 2012, 02:21:43 PM »

Quote
I don't understand the objection to the woman using the word "beast". A dog, by definition, is a beast.

Many children, by definition, are brats but I've seen people on this board get upset by the use of that word.  Don't insult my dogs & I won't (publicly) insult your children.
OP, you did much better than I would have.  My dogs mean the world to me & I don't take kindly to threats of violence against them.  A question to those who say there was no threat of violence from the older woman - if someone had made kicking motions towards your children would you be upset?  Would you just brush it off as no big deal as some of you have suggested?   Please don't tell me
children are different.  ALL living creatures deserve the same consideration.

All dogs are beasts, and the world "beast" is not derogatory; all children are not brats, but the word "brat" is always derogatory. 

Someone making kicking motions toward my children from 10 feet away while they are backing up would get them a quizzical look from me, and I'd put myself between the person and my kids. But my kids would be unlikely to be trying to move toward the stranger unlike the dog in the OP.
Ask for what you want. Let's be clear on this one:
Subtle hints don't work.
Strong hints don't work.
Really obvious hints don't work.
Just say it!

-The Car Talk Guys

Judah

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4769
  • California, U.S.A
Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #98 on: December 06, 2012, 02:23:32 PM »
I have to agree to a point. OP, I believe Daisy is a boxer? So, a dog like this:


I don't think the woman acted well, but I do think the OP would be best off preparing a short script for using with people who are afraid because appropriate or not, some people do think large dogs, especially breeds like boxers are dangerous. And while I don't condone her actions, the woman isn't here. So, I'm choosing to advise the OP.

Awwwww, he looks just like my Charlie.
Ask for what you want. Let's be clear on this one:
Subtle hints don't work.
Strong hints don't work.
Really obvious hints don't work.
Just say it!

-The Car Talk Guys

Jones

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2530
Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #99 on: December 06, 2012, 02:29:51 PM »
I can't say I fancy snakes at all. Not a phobia, but a healthy respect for fangs and strength. I have therefore learned what actions to avoid should I meet a snake in the wild. I've learned ways to tell if a snake is poisonous if I don't recognize the breed (none of which are quite useful unless I get up close *shudder*). And yes, I try to avoid places where snakes are likely to be if I am by myself. I would never shake a foot at a rattlesnake even from several feet away.

I would have thought this would translate into similar activities for people who have fear of other animals too. I supposed that if people aren't afraid of an animal, they're more likely to act casually around them, not thinking through the consequences. If someone is afraid of a dog, a good recommendation is to learn what actions to avoid when around an aggressive creature so as to not "flip them off" and cause an altercation.

HockeyNut

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 169
Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #100 on: December 06, 2012, 02:43:08 PM »

Quote


All dogs are beasts, and the world "beast" is not derogatory; all children are not brats, but the word "brat" is always derogatory. 


Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.  I think the way the older woman used the term "beast" was derogatory.
So what is the acceptable term for unruly, rude, obnoxious children?  I have a phobia about them so I try to get as far away from them as possible.   Which is exactly what the woman should have done with the dog (without the kicking).

GratefulMaria

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 539
Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #101 on: December 06, 2012, 03:00:00 PM »
If she's genuinely that frightened of dogs, what on earth is she doing hanging out in a place where she's likely to run into them?

But I am very bothered by the bolded part here.  I understand someone with seven dogs wouldn't really be able to relate to someone who geniunionly doesn't like them or is afraid of them.  That doesn't mean she should not have access to a walking trail that was designed for humans to walk on and ALLOWS dogs (instead of the reverse, a dog park designed for dogs).

She can access it all she wants, but she needs to come to terms with the fact that she's going to encounter dogs and she needs to learn how to behave appropriately in that circumstance.

As an example, this isn't a phobia situation, but I'm not overly fond of small children - especially large clusters of them. I'm free to access family restaurants, parks with playgrounds, and Chuck E. Cheese all I want but I tend to either hang out in other places or manage socially acceptable reactions when I encounter small children instead of, say, yellling "Keep your brat away from me!" The latter is just not cool.

Where I live, walking trails are not as thick on the ground as restaurants and even parks (either with or without playgrounds), so someone wishing to avoid dogs may not have that luxury.  The woman could have handled it much better, IMO, but around here she may not necessarily have had anywhere else to go.


BeagleMommy

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3001
Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #102 on: December 06, 2012, 04:00:13 PM »
OP, I don't think you did anything wrong.  I also think the woman had a phobic reaction.  However, I can tell you how The Beagle would have reacted.

Now The Beagle isn't a large dog and he is very friendly.  People can be afraid of dogs in all shapes and sizes.  When we walk him (and we walk him around people, other dogs, baby buggies, etc.), if we see someone coming toward us we pull him closer to us or to the opposite side.  If someone asks to pet him we put him in a "sit/stay" and allow people to show him affection.

Had he seen this woman kicking at the air he would have interpreted it as "this human is trying to hurt MY people" and he would have bared his teeth and growled in a "back off lady" stance.  She may have gotten the opposite reaction to what she needed.

The lady would have been better off if she had stood still (or backed up) and said to the OP "I'm afraid of dogs.  Is you dog under control?" or "Please move your dog to the opposite side, I have a fear of dogs.".

Not every dog reacts the same way to people and not every person reacts the same way to dogs.  I think the lady was slightly rude with the "beast" comment, but not egregious.

SPuck

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 967
Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #103 on: December 06, 2012, 04:28:20 PM »
I would have thought this would translate into similar activities for people who have fear of other animals too. I supposed that if people aren't afraid of an animal, they're more likely to act casually around them, not thinking through the consequences. If someone is afraid of a dog, a good recommendation is to learn what actions to avoid when around an aggressive creature so as to not "flip them off" and cause an altercation.

I could not have said it better myself. There is nothing wrong with a person having a phobia, but it is up to them to learn how to handle their fear. I would say knowing not to get agitated around a dog or cat is like knowing not to walk on streets at night in dark clothing.

wildkitty

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: Please Don't Kick My Dog...
« Reply #104 on: December 06, 2012, 04:32:20 PM »
I am a longtime lurker, but I am a devoted pet parent and just had to respond. Basically, a threat against a furkid of mine is a direct threat to me.

I think the encounter has been over sensationalized by some. The dog did not lunge toward the woman or act aggressively in any way. They approached each other on a path. The dog wagged its tail and continued toward the woman, which was necessary so as to pass. It was not required or even necessary for the OP and her dog to veer off the path on the off chance that the approaching stranger is some psychotic dog-kicking nut or that this person is so terrified of dogs that she cannot possibly control her reaction.

Let me put it this way. I am certifiably, bat-poop crazy afraid of snakes to the extent that I cannot look at a picture of a snake. Any snake. Even one that is harmless. But that said, if a person out for a stroll with their pet rattlesnake was about to cross my path, my reaction would not be to threaten physical violence or yell at the snake owner. My reaction as a sensible adult would be to avoid the snake at all costs. I will grant you that my avoidance would consist of a world-record speed walk and a little hyperventilating. This past summer I was walking along a boardwalk and came across a man sitting on a bench while his 12 foot long python(?) was sunning itself in on the beach. I shuddered, quickened my step, and put the snake and its owner well behind me. The end. No need for theatrics or extraneous drama. No matter how great the urge to scream and run away, as an adult I am required to control my behavior.

The OP did not overreact and neither did she under-react. Part of being a responsible pet owner is protecting your pet from harm. If some nut started kicking at my dog, from ten feet away or not, I would defend my dog as necessary. The OP defended her dog appropriately. Kicking at a dog is a threat, fear is not an excuse. An unprovoked attack on a dog by a human is punishable by law. An owner defending their dog is also protected. If you cannot control your reactions to such an extent that you physically lash out at any perceived threat, imagined or not, than the onus is on you to deal with the consequences.

I did get a great laugh out of the posts that suggested that a woman in her 60ís is elderly and feeble. I canít wait to call my 61 year old, athletic mother with the news. Iíll call the Retirement Home and reserve my parents a room.  ;D