To avoid or not to avoid Xmas Eve get together?

[despedina]

My son has not said anything lately, right after he started crying and all my BIL said was that I needed to make my son behave.   

Honestly I was also a bit irked that all the people who were standing around turned a blind eye to what was going on, but that's pretty much par for the course with this family in general. If everything is not happy go lucky then they don't see it.

Also, his son is not an angel by any means. He is basically an only child (his sister was in her mid teens when he was born), and does not seem to grasp the meaning of sharing and its been an issue.  So yes my kids get in disagreements with him.
My SIL has been known to say that her child is "perfection" and even told me just a few days before this incident that her son "likes to manipulate other kids to see how much he can get other kids to do", like it was a brag. I don't really get it.   Of course, I don't blame nephew for the way he's being raised.   I guess I'm just saying that BIL1 and his wife seem to be a big part of the problem they seem to think rests only on my boys' shoulders.

[LeveeWoman]

My son has not said anything lately, right after he started crying and all my BIL said was that I needed to make my son behave.   

Honestly I was also a bit irked that all the people who were standing around turned a blind eye to what was going on, but that's pretty much par for the course with this family in general. If everything is not happy go lucky then they don't see it.

Also, his son is not an angel by any means. He is basically an only child (his sister was in her mid teens when he was born), and does not seem to grasp the meaning of sharing and its been an issue.  So yes my kids get in disagreements with him.
My SIL has been known to say that her child is "perfection" and even told me just a few days before this incident that her son "likes to manipulate other kids to see how much he can get other kids to do", like it was a brag. I don't really get it.   Of course, I don't blame nephew for the way he's being raised.   I guess I'm just saying that BIL1 and his wife seem to be a big part of the problem they seem to think rests only on my boys' shoulders.

As others have said, the toxicity extends well beyond your brother-in-law.

[Danika]

My son has not said anything lately, right after he started crying and all my BIL said was that I needed to make my son behave.   

Honestly I was also a bit irked that all the people who were standing around turned a blind eye to what was going on, but that's pretty much par for the course with this family in general. If everything is not happy go lucky then they don't see it.

Also, his son is not an angel by any means. He is basically an only child (his sister was in her mid teens when he was born), and does not seem to grasp the meaning of sharing and its been an issue.  So yes my kids get in disagreements with him.
My SIL has been known to say that her child is "perfection" and even told me just a few days before this incident that her son "likes to manipulate other kids to see how much he can get other kids to do", like it was a brag. I don't really get it.   Of course, I don't blame nephew for the way he's being raised.   I guess I'm just saying that BIL1 and his wife seem to be a big part of the problem they seem to think rests only on my boys' shoulders.

As others have said, the toxicity extends well beyond your brother-in-law.

Precisely!

In my extended family, on my mom's side, this is the exact kind of thing that one of my uncle's would do to the kids and all his siblings would just say "he's disciplining the child. It takes a village to raise a child. Good for him for disciplining a child. He likes order and respect." Not only would they excuse it, they'd defend it.

That's why you don't have supporters in the extended family. That kind of behavior is ok in their eyes because "he's the adult and he knows better."

Without the support of strangers on internet forums, I wonder how many more years of dysfunctional family events I would have endured because the only opinions I ever heard when I raised concerns were from the dysfunctional family members who would say "it's ok" and "it's family" and "stop overreacting." I cut off a lot of the toxic members before I got married, so my kids haven't been in your youngest child's position, but it's still annoying to deal with the extended family who are enablers.

[Nora]

NO! He failed! He will NOT get super-happy-family-fun-time, he will not be given presents, and you WILL NOT feel bad about any and all reactions to taking this step!

[weeblewobble]

NO! He failed! He will NOT get super-happy-family-fun-time, he will not be given presents, and you WILL NOT feel bad about any and all reactions to taking this step!

In the words of Dwight Schrute's Bellsnickle, he is IMPISH!

[Tiamet]

Two things I noticed here:  Firstly, the issue of the assault.  BIL1 is extremely lucky you didn't call the police for what he did to a 4 year old child.  I think PPs have covered this, so I won't go over again.

The second point I noticed is that you say MIL 'isn't taking sides'.  I think that is completely untrue.  She is taking sides and is supporting BIL1.  Otherwise, she wouldn't be expecting her grandchild to be in the same room as a child abuser and wouldn't be expecting all of her sons at the same party.  If my relatives acted like this, I wouldn't invite everyone and leave it up to the victims to decide if they could stand being in the same room as the offender; I'd take the latter off my guest list for the comfort of the people he assaulted.

I have no idea why your DH is trying to apologise/reconcile with his brother (I'm really sorry you felt you had to assault a 4 year old - it's all his fault, we'll watch him better next time? - does that really make sense to you?).  If this was me, I'd be having nothing to do with this person until he made a grovelling apology.  I suspect the PP earlier who says that in dysfunctional families, one person has to be the 'reasonable' one (read doormat) is right and your DH has been assigned this role.

Also, does anyone have anything except BIL1's word for the fact he is on medication?  IMHO, either the family doctor is a quack or BIL1 is lying  - drugs like that should only be prescribed by psychiatrists (although I accept things may be different in the US).

[despedina]

Well, I've never seen him on said medication. I only know that he and his wife have said he's on medication.
And yes, I've heard of family doctors prescribing meds like this before.  In fact, when I was in high school, my mother convinced my doctor I needed paxil because I she thought I was under severe stress,  so I know it happens.

[despedina]

So small update, my DH and I spoke last night and we decided that best case scenario, if we go to xmas eve WITH bil1 we will just be on edge the entire afternoon, and worrying if he approves of how my sons are playing with nephew. We don't feel this will be at all enjoyable and I really can't get past the fact what he's done before (btw, he did at one point apologize half-heartedly to DH for his blow up and shaking of my son, but he's yelled at my sons before and apologized and DH told him he could not accept his apologies anymore until they could sit down and talk about changes that need to be made and have boundaries set, which obviously has not happened). 
I just think that if we go we're "playing with fire" and asking for another incident if we go.
DH emailed BIL2 to explain this and has not gotten a reply yet.  MIL is still insisting that there is a mass for FIL on the 24th (which I don't understand) so if she wants us to go to mass we'll go to mass.  DH has not yet told her that we cannot be there at her house at the same time as BIL1. I've explained that he needs to do this soon, so she has time to plan and get used to the idea. She tears up everytime he talks to her about BIL1 so he's finding it difficult.  It may sound terrible, but I'm starting to wonder about her tearing up every time my DH tries to talk about the issue with her.  Seems like just a way to shut DH down.

[JenJay]

I think that's exactly what she's doing!

Your DH should let her know that he contacted the church to find out what time FIL's mass would be and was informed it had already been held on 11/15, that the 24th is a regular mass, and your family will not be in attendance.

[LeveeWoman]

So small update, my DH and I spoke last night and we decided that best case scenario, if we go to xmas eve WITH bil1 we will just be on edge the entire afternoon, and worrying if he approves of how my sons are playing with nephew. We don't feel this will be at all enjoyable and I really can't get past the fact what he's done before (btw, he did at one point apologize half-heartedly to DH for his blow up and shaking of my son, but he's yelled at my sons before and apologized and DH told him he could not accept his apologies anymore until they could sit down and talk about changes that need to be made and have boundaries set, which obviously has not happened). 
I just think that if we go we're "playing with fire" and asking for another incident if we go.
DH emailed BIL2 to explain this and has not gotten a reply yet.  MIL is still insisting that there is a mass for FIL on the 24th (which I don't understand) so if she wants us to go to mass we'll go to mass.  DH has not yet told her that we cannot be there at her house at the same time as BIL1. I've explained that he needs to do this soon, so she has time to plan and get used to the idea. She tears up everytime he talks to her about BIL1 so he's finding it difficult. It may sound terrible, but I'm starting to wonder about her tearing up every time my DH tries to talk about the issue with her.  Seems like just a way to shut DH down.

Of course it's a way to shut him down! She is more interested in protecting a  violent man than her own grandson.

[despedina]

He told her he checked on the mass, and she just replied that she had it written down.
But regardless I was wanting to take the kids to mass xmas eve anyway (we don't attend church often and I want them to experience going on a holiday), so I don't have an issue going, as long as we sit far away from BIL1 (its a very large church).

[FoxPaws]

Please reassure your DH that his mother is not going to drown.

He needs to tell her what is going on without factoring in how she chooses to react. A person can cry and listen at the same time. It might help to pretend she just has a cold or really bad allergies. He is not responsible for how his mother - a grown woman - feels or the way she expresses her feelings.

He is responsible for ensuring that his children are physically safe and emotionally secure. By setting boundaries and upholding them, he is providing a valuable lesson on how to stand up for yourself and your loved ones. That is a great gift to pass down at any time of year.

[sammycat]

The second point I noticed is that you say MIL 'isn't taking sides'.  I think that is completely untrue.  She is taking sides and is supporting BIL1.  Otherwise, she wouldn't be expecting her grandchild to be in the same room as a child abuser and wouldn't be expecting all of her sons at the same party.  If my relatives acted like this, I wouldn't invite everyone and leave it up to the victims to decide if they could stand being in the same room as the offender; I'd take the latter off my guest list for the comfort of the people he assaulted.

I was just coming in to say the same thing.   I can't believe it wasn't pointed out before. 

MIL and BIL deserve each other and I, for one, would be leaving them to it.  There is no way in e-hell I'd be subjecting my child to this violent thug and the person/people who condone it.

I've cut people/family off for a lot less than this.  To me, it's a no brainer that BIL and his family deserve the cut direct, and things with MIL would be pretty chilly for a while too.

Spending Christmas with any of them wouldn't even be on my radar, let alone worrying about presents.

[BarensMom]

He told her he checked on the mass, and she just replied that she had it written down.
But regardless I was wanting to take the kids to mass xmas eve anyway (we don't attend church often and I want them to experience going on a holiday), so I don't have an issue going, as long as we sit far away from BIL1 (its a very large church).

I'm sure there are other churches in your area offering Christmas Eve services.  Your children should not be in the same building as BIL1 nor your manipulative MIL.

[Danika]

I just think that if we go we're "playing with fire" and asking for another incident if we go.

I agree. And even if there are only small fires this time, you'll all be on edge the entire time and be miserable. Not a fun holiday.