Asking for time off during the holidays

[amylouky]

Wait--did he AGREE to work these other days?

Because I can't find an answer to that and...that drastically affects my opinion.

(I work a 4-10's schedule.  I end up coming in on my day off fairly regularly at certain times of the year but I won't do it at the drop of the hat--we agreed on a schedule when I was hired and I'm willing to be flexible but I expect my employer to understand that I'm 'doing a favor'/'going above and beyond'/etc when I drive in on my day off)

That would affect my opinion somewhat, but he is still asking for other days that he is regularly scheduled to work.
I'd deny his vacation request for the days on his schedule, and let him go if he doesn't show up. If he agreed to work the extra days, and backs out, I'd also let him go. If he didn't agree definitely, I wouldn't penalize him for those days.

[WillyNilly]

I bet in 5, 10 years from now, this guy will still be in entry level positions.  He'll have some experience but not seniority because he'll have jumped from company to company. All his friends and peers will be at a point in their careers where they do get requested time off, etc and he'll still be at the lower entry-level rung being asked to work the undesirable shifts and he'll be whining about how unfair it all is and how his bosses are coming down on him, etc.

[blarg314]

I'm curious about how old this guy is.

If he's entry level into the work force, not just the job (ie, straight out of school, or has only worked more casual jobs before)  that may be some explanation. In a university setting, the most important thing is that you get the work done well by the deadline, and things like attendance and exactly when you do the work are secondary. Plus, instructors generally don't have the power to fire/demote students, or punish bad attitudes as long as the student does the work.  (I would like to note that this is sometimes really annoying for the instructors.)  Plus, you always get an extended holiday from slightly before Christmas until after New Years. Losing that when you enter the work force is an unhappy realization.

For casual short term jobs,  on the other hand, behaviour like this wouldn't necessarily have long term repercussions.

I've seen this once or twice with recent grads, who hadn't figured out that being a junior employee in a company is very different than being a student at school, and came across as demanding little snots as a result - reacting rudely when asked/told to do normal duties that are the lot of junior employees, regarding any encroachment on lunch hours or vacations as a personal attack, not quite grasping the concept of a strict work schedule and the need for approval for vacation.  They weren't necessarily horrible people underneath, but they did need to figure out that being good at their job tasks was a necessary but not sufficient condition for doing well in the workplace.

[Eden]

I asked him to reschedule his vacation, and he told me it was not possible.  I told him this jeopardizes his chances for advancement and even continued employment, to which he had no response.

Just so I'm sure I'm clear: You asked him to work extra holiday hours and it was at that point that he said, "Well, I actually was planning on asking that time for vacation." ?

[CreteGirl]

I asked him to reschedule his vacation, and he told me it was not possible.  I told him this jeopardizes his chances for advancement and even continued employment, to which he had no response.

Just so I'm sure I'm clear: You asked him to work extra holiday hours and it was at that point that he said, "Well, I actually was planning on asking that time for vacation." ?

I asked him to work extra holiday hours and he was non committal.  A few days later he said he could not work the entire week.  I assume at the time I asked him to work, the trip he was planning was not yet confirmed.  Some of the days I need him to work are his normally scheduled hours.

[Eden]

Definitely a poor choice on his part, then. I would not have asked.

[CreteGirl]

I bet in 5, 10 years from now, this guy will still be in entry level positions.  He'll have some experience but not seniority because he'll have jumped from company to company. All his friends and peers will be at a point in their careers where they do get requested time off, etc and he'll still be at the lower entry-level rung being asked to work the undesirable shifts and he'll be whining about how unfair it all is and how his bosses are coming down on him, etc.

I think you are probably right. The industry we work in, and the position that he would like to someday have, requires being available 24/7 to respond to emergencies, and often to work extra hours.  If he is not willing to go the extra mile now, I doubt he will in the future.

The time that he is unwilling to work falls during the week I already had a vacation planned, which he knew about before he asked for the time off.  I am unable to reschedule without losing a significant portion of the cost of the trip.

I knew I would have to do some work during this trip.  We are a very small staff (3 people), and there are some things that no one else can handle for me.  I accept that I have to work a portion of every vacation.  But since he will not be in the office, I now need to do some of his administrative tasks along with my own while I am on this vacation.  He will be gone soon, but that does not help me during this trip. 

[wolfie]

I bet in 5, 10 years from now, this guy will still be in entry level positions.  He'll have some experience but not seniority because he'll have jumped from company to company. All his friends and peers will be at a point in their careers where they do get requested time off, etc and he'll still be at the lower entry-level rung being asked to work the undesirable shifts and he'll be whining about how unfair it all is and how his bosses are coming down on him, etc.

I think you are probably right. The industry we work in, and the position that he would like to someday have, requires being available 24/7 to respond to emergencies, and often to work extra hours.  If he is not willing to go the extra mile now, I doubt he will in the future.

The time that he is unwilling to work falls during the week I already had a vacation planned, which he knew about before he asked for the time off.  I am unable to reschedule without losing a significant portion of the cost of the trip.

I knew I would have to do some work during this trip.  We are a very small staff (3 people), and there are some things that no one else can handle for me.  I accept that I have to work a portion of every vacation.  But since he will not be in the office, I now need to do some of his administrative tasks along with my own while I am on this vacation.  He will be gone soon, but that does not help me during this trip.

What if you told him that he cannot take the time off?

[cheyne]

Wait a minute, not only did he ask for time off with short notice, but he's actually taking a vacation and not working his scheduled days?  Unbelievable.  Did you not tell him he couldn't take time off on such short notice? 

I would fire him today.  I know that it's hard but he's not going to be around when you're on vacation anyway.  Get rid of him and hire someone new as soon as you get back.  I would not reward this behavior with one more penny of my company's money.

[nonesuch4]

Wait a minute, not only did he ask for time off with short notice, but he's actually taking a vacation and not working his scheduled days?  Unbelievable.  Did you not tell him he couldn't take time off on such short notice? 

I would fire him today.  I know that it's hard but he's not going to be around when you're on vacation anyway.  Get rid of him and hire someone new as soon as you get back.  I would not reward this behavior with one more penny of my company's money.

I work retail and at one point, had a job cashiering at a department store over the winter holiday season.  I remember colleagues talking in the break room about a cashier who'd just been fired - three days before Christmas. They were indignant that "the company" had been so heartless to let someone go at that time.  I waited for a break in the action and opined, "What must she have done or said to a customer, that they fired a cashier three days before Christmas?"

Cue the crickets chirping.

[snowdragon]

Wait a minute, not only did he ask for time off with short notice, but he's actually taking a vacation and not working his scheduled days?  Unbelievable.  Did you not tell him he couldn't take time off on such short notice? 

I would fire him today.  I know that it's hard but he's not going to be around when you're on vacation anyway.  Get rid of him and hire someone new as soon as you get back.  I would not reward this behavior with one more penny of my company's money.

This - and I be the other person in the office would not mind helping out a bit more,,, they are going to have to anyhow since this guy will be on "vacation" and you are out of the office. Does this other person even have vacation time coming to them?

[desireesgranny]

With the details, I would not ask for the time off.

[wolfie]

Wait a minute, not only did he ask for time off with short notice, but he's actually taking a vacation and not working his scheduled days?  Unbelievable.  Did you not tell him he couldn't take time off on such short notice? 

I would fire him today.  I know that it's hard but he's not going to be around when you're on vacation anyway.  Get rid of him and hire someone new as soon as you get back.  I would not reward this behavior with one more penny of my company's money.

This - and I be the other person in the office would not mind helping out a bit more,,, they are going to have to anyhow since this guy will be on "vacation" and you are out of the office. Does this other person even have vacation time coming to them?

I would be very upset if i had to work during my vacation because the intern who has no vacation days decided that they were just going to take off.

[Fleur]

This story actually makes me quite angry. I would give my eye teeth for an entry level job in my chosen field, I am at the stage where I'm just taking temp jobs to stay afloat and hoping that something in my field will turn up. I am flabbergasted that someone would just throw an oppurtunity like that away. He must have a very poor grasp on reality

[Sheila Take a Bow]

I used to have a roommate who was like this.  She had just gotten her MBA and she thought it made her such a valuable employee that she could do whatever she chose.

She'd been told that the office allowed people to work from home, but that it was discouraged for management (she was a lower-level manager) and for people who'd been with the company for less than a year.  Her supervisor told her that he couldn't prevent her from choosing to work from home, but that he wanted her in the office so that she could establish herself as available and approachable.

Ex-roommate decided that since her supervisor couldn't tell her she couldn't work from home, she'd work from home.  Although her supervisor spoke to her more than once about how he wanted her to develop a relationship with her team and she needed to be more available to them, she kept telling him that she was just following the policy that allowed her to work from home.

She didn't make it out of the probationary period for that job, and she lost another job in a similar fashion.

This was ten years ago.  Since then she has only had one job last more than a year, and she's been unemployed for the last year and a half or so.  She thinks she just keeps picking the wrong job and refuses to accept her role in her job troubles.