Author Topic: Handicapped Stall:One Handicap trumps another?  (Read 12714 times)

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Rohanna

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Re: Handicapped Stall:One Handicap trumps another?
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2012, 04:20:25 PM »
I can also answer why they are often in the back! (source: behavioural class). People are lazy. If you put the accessible bathroom first, people will use it first- and it will be available less often for those who need it. Most people will not walk past an available stall to get to the one more appropriate to them. I've seen this in action- because our local mall thought they were being nice putting the family/accesible bathroom first, down a hall. Security is CONSTANTLY fielding complaints that it's always full of people who patently don't need it- or complaints from people that it's all "weird" toilets (yes...that's because it's for special needs and small children- as well as the nursing room). If it was the last room, yes, you'd have to walk further if you needed it, but most of the people who don't would have gone into their own bathrooms rather than walking down the hall.
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WillyNilly

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Re: Handicapped Stall:One Handicap trumps another?
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2012, 04:24:24 PM »
Most people are able bodied.  So it does make sense to accommodate the handicapped, but design for the majority.

Bingo!

As obnoxious as this woman was - putting in all handicapped stalls in new buildings would solve a lot of issues - for one it would make more places available to the disabled and it would mean that everyone could use them with out worrying about displacing someone...the handicapped stalls are accessible to most people ( i know some folks who need lower, rather than higher seats.) and if you have all handicapped stalls there will be no arguments about who goes first because "that's the only one I can use" type stuff. If you design to make more stalls handicapped accessible - you are designing for the majority, really.

But handicapped stalls take up 1.5 to 3x the space of a regular stall.  If all the stalls were handicapped there would be significantly fewer stalls and therefore significantly longer waits for an available one for everyone.

I don't think "they're the minority" should apply to bathrooms.  Everybody should be able to use a bathroom!  I understand space limitations, older buildings, and the like, but that doesn't mean that newer buildings can't be better designed.  "The handicapped" aren't some mysterious others; it could be you at some point in your life!  Or somebody in your family, or a friend.  Anybody.

Playing "I need the stall more than you do" when you both need it?  Ridiculously rude.

Maybe we are thinking of different things here, but IME public restrooms are at absolute most 30 feet across, most less then 15.  I get it that having the stalls at the end is a bit less convenient but really if this someone who is out & about in public anyway (hence needing a public restroom) an extra 10-20 feet across a restroom doesn't seem too much of a burden to me.  When I spent months on end on crutches (I have broken both my ankles) it never even occurred tome to take note handicap stall was at the end of the room.  Its not like we're talking about a huge distance.

DistantStar

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Re: Handicapped Stall:One Handicap trumps another?
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2012, 04:59:01 PM »
I wasn't talking about the distance to the stall -- just how they are used.  And I understand not building a bathroom with nothing but larger stalls, but there needs to be an accessible stall or two, and while they are open to all I think they should be left as open as possible.  I'll use one if there's none other if I will be quick but one of these days I'm going to ask the ladies at church who use the one to change into their choir robes to please not do that as there are a couple parishioners who might need it!

CaptainObvious

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Re: Handicapped Stall:One Handicap trumps another?
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2012, 05:01:20 PM »
I wasn't talking about the distance to the stall -- just how they are used.  And I understand not building a bathroom with nothing but larger stalls, but there needs to be an accessible stall or two, and while they are open to all I think they should be left as open as possible.  I'll use one if there's none other if I will be quick but one of these days I'm going to ask the ladies at church who use the one to change into their choir robes to please not do that as there are a couple parishioners who might need it!

Every public restroom has to have at least one handicap stall. As long as no one is waiting outside the door unable to use that stall, they really aren't doing anything wrong.

TurtleDove

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Re: Handicapped Stall:One Handicap trumps another?
« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2012, 05:05:18 PM »
.... as there are a couple parishioners who might need it!

Like the ladies changing in their robes.  If the handicapped parishioners need it, they can wait their turn, assuming of course this robe changing is not taking longer than a minute or so.

DistantStar

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Re: Handicapped Stall:One Handicap trumps another?
« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2012, 06:55:13 PM »
It DOES take more than a minute or two.  Hence the thought. 

ETA:  They could easily use the other stalls to change; there's room, they're not tiny.  There is an entire bathroom just off our room ten feet away that they could go into, close the door, and change in there (it's a single, but is pretty roomy). 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree as I do think biological need trumps almost any other possible use for an accessible stall.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 07:20:46 PM by DistantStar »

pearls n purls

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Re: Handicapped Stall:One Handicap trumps another?
« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2012, 07:34:13 PM »
One disability does not trump another, however if part of one's disability makes needing to use the restroom more urgent, I see nothing wrong with a "Do you mind if I go first?  It's an emergency" or similar.  But I don't think this was the case with the woman in the wheelchair.

LifeOnPluto

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Re: Handicapped Stall:One Handicap trumps another?
« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2012, 09:48:08 PM »
Wow. The most charitable explanation I can think of, is that Wheelchair Lady was under the mistaken belief that the handicapped stalls were for wheelchair users only (since the sign is normally that of a wheelchair user).

That said, you'd think that the sight of the OP's friend, with her leg in plaster, might have given Wheelchair Lady a clue that she (the friend) couldn't handle a normal stall!

sparksals

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Re: Handicapped Stall:One Handicap trumps another?
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2012, 10:25:48 PM »
IMHO people who need the handicapped stall wait in line with everyone else.  Once they get toward the front of the line the people ahead of them may choose to let them go as soon as the stall is next free, but otherwise they get to the front of the line and then let others ahead of them (for the regular stalls) until a stall opens up they can use.  Yes, it's *nice* for people to let them cut ahead, but it's not rude not to unless the handicap also means they can't wait.

I end up using the handicap stalls all the time now - they're often the location for the infant changing tables, and also the only stall I can fit both me and Babybartfast when she needs to go.  I would assume someone with a visible handicap is capable of waiting the same way anyone else would unless they told me otherwise.

I completely disagree that a handicapped person should wait in line for the ONE stall for them while everyone else has several stalls.  If it comes open and they are waiting in line, then they should move to the front when the handicapped opens.  No one knows their disability.  I could never stand there and take the handicap stall knowing someone disabled was  waiting for the one stall they can use.   
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 10:29:22 PM by sparksals »

WillyNilly

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Re: Handicapped Stall:One Handicap trumps another?
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2012, 10:47:47 PM »
A few posters have mentioned the handicap sign/symbol... I'm wondering do they actually label the stalls in your areas?  Because honestly I've never seen a handicap stall labeled as one, its just a bigger stall.  Sometimes if its a totally individual room it will be marked, but otherwise, other then size nothing specifically identifies it as handicap accessible.

Lorelei_Evil

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Re: Handicapped Stall:One Handicap trumps another?
« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2012, 11:00:40 PM »
It depends on where it is.  Most are marked in public places here. 

Tabby Uprising

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Re: Handicapped Stall:One Handicap trumps another?
« Reply #56 on: December 12, 2012, 11:05:53 PM »
IMHO people who need the handicapped stall wait in line with everyone else.  Once they get toward the front of the line the people ahead of them may choose to let them go as soon as the stall is next free, but otherwise they get to the front of the line and then let others ahead of them (for the regular stalls) until a stall opens up they can use.  Yes, it's *nice* for people to let them cut ahead, but it's not rude not to unless the handicap also means they can't wait.

I end up using the handicap stalls all the time now - they're often the location for the infant changing tables, and also the only stall I can fit both me and Babybartfast when she needs to go.  I would assume someone with a visible handicap is capable of waiting the same way anyone else would unless they told me otherwise.

I completely disagree that a handicapped person should wait in line for the ONE stall for them while everyone else has several stalls.  If it comes open and they are waiting in line, then they should move to the front when the handicapped opens.  No one knows their disability.  I could never stand there and take the handicap stall knowing someone disabled was  waiting for the one stall they can use.

I see what you're saying, but we've talked about invisible disabilities in this thread too.  If someone with a disability moves to the front of the line to use the handicap accessible stall, how can they be sure they haven't gotten in front of another person in line with a disability? 

AllTheThings

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Re: Handicapped Stall:One Handicap trumps another?
« Reply #57 on: December 12, 2012, 11:08:08 PM »
IMHO people who need the handicapped stall wait in line with everyone else.  Once they get toward the front of the line the people ahead of them may choose to let them go as soon as the stall is next free, but otherwise they get to the front of the line and then let others ahead of them (for the regular stalls) until a stall opens up they can use.  Yes, it's *nice* for people to let them cut ahead, but it's not rude not to unless the handicap also means they can't wait.

I end up using the handicap stalls all the time now - they're often the location for the infant changing tables, and also the only stall I can fit both me and Babybartfast when she needs to go.  I would assume someone with a visible handicap is capable of waiting the same way anyone else would unless they told me otherwise.

I completely disagree that a handicapped person should wait in line for the ONE stall for them while everyone else has several stalls.  If it comes open and they are waiting in line, then they should move to the front when the handicapped opens.  No one knows their disability.  I could never stand there and take the handicap stall knowing someone disabled was  waiting for the one stall they can use.

I don't think that handicapped people actually have to wait significantly longer than anyone else to get a stall, due to how the system works.

Here's how I see it:

Let's say there are six stalls, 5 regular, 1 handicapped. There is a line, so all stalls are constantly in use. Assuming people going steadily in and out without any extreme delays, which could happen in a regular or handicapped stall. If a handicapped stall opens up, and a handicapped woman is within the first six people in the line, I think it would be very kind to let her go in, as a regular should be open shortly. However even if the first person in line does not do this and instead uses the handicapped stall, the handicapped woman will be the very next one able to use it, as the remaining people ahead of her would have already entered the newly opened regular stalls.

That means that at most, the handicapped woman is delayed by one person. If the woman is far back enough in line (say number 20), it doesn't make as much sense to let her jump the line due to unfairness, as she wouldn't have gotten into a stall based on her current line position, even if all six of the stalls were handicapped stalls.

Of course, I'll let anyone who is about to have an accident go ahead of me, handicapped or not. But they have to say something, I'm not a mind reader.

gmatoy

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Re: Handicapped Stall:One Handicap trumps another?
« Reply #58 on: December 13, 2012, 01:37:23 AM »
As someone who sometimes needs the handicapped stall,  I usually let the people behind me know that I'm waiting for the accessible stall, so they can go around me to the next open stall. Cue everyone telling me to go and wait outside the stall. Except, that often would mean there isn't enough room for the other person to get out of the stall.


GoTwins

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Re: Handicapped Stall:One Handicap trumps another?
« Reply #59 on: December 13, 2012, 08:58:43 AM »
A bit of a tangent, here. Not trying to hijack the thread; but I'm not sure my question warrants a separate one (please move it if need be).

Just wondering- why are the handicap stalls so commonly located in the very back of the restroom? Wouldn't it be more convenient and practical for them to be up front?
Building codes. Other than the larger size, handicap stalls need a door that swings OUT. If you put a stall with an outswing door at the beginning of a row, people walking to the other stalls may get hurt by the door as it swings open. The same thing applies to dressing rooms. Can you imagine walking down the aisle in a dressing room and having doors swinging open at you from both sides? Yikes! I know there are always complaints about doors that swing IN on small stalls but that is the reason.
And, yes, I work with the building trades.  ;D