Re: Letting an adult "suffer the consequences" UPDATE Pg. 8

[snowfire]

This can totally ruin someones trust.  I'm in my 50's and I still remember all the promises that my father made, then backed out on.  I don't think he was deliberately being a bully.  He just wanted the "you're such a great dad for doing (fill in the blank)" without ever having to actually DO (fill in the blank). 

I learned at a very early age that I couldn't trust him as far as I could throw him....

[rain]

Grandpa is a bully. And he's not picking on someone his own size.

...snip...

So I agree, time to stop focusing on Grandpa and start "Grandpa-proofing" Taylor.

ITA - when your child is bullied, you protect you child from the bully - and the best method is avoidance

additionally - grandpa is exhibiting a maladaptive behavior, therefore they need to remove the "reinforcer" (4 yr old DD)  - expect there to be "extinction outbursts" - when (not if) they happen the consequences must be implemented immediately, don't let it slide because it will ramp up & be even worse to "break the habit" again

[zyrs]

I would A. limit the time he gets to spend with Taylor during his visit and B. teach Taylor that her grandfather is a liar. 

I had an adult like this in my life growing up.  I still have problems because if it.

[Redsoil]

I wonderif it would be possible to teach Taylor a little song to use when G'pa does this again, if he continues to interact in such a fashion?

To the tune of "Camptown Races"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXE_PfcXtYE  using alternative lyrics especially for G'pa!

"Grandpa is a great big liar...doo dah doo dah...  He's gonna set his pants on fire, oh the doo dah day!"

[Venus193]

I'm not sure that's such a great idea unless she understands that use of such a song needs to be limited to dealing with the old man.

Despite the consequences for the grandmother, I think getting direct with him with an ultimatum is the way to go.  If he continues to do this you cut off contact.  That should force Grandma to get on his case.

[Yvaine]

Does FIL truly believe that these are what you call teachable moments? Because, depending on how old he is and who/what his influences are, he might think this really is a way to condition a child away from tantrums. I've heard of people, mostly in earlier eras, setting up situations like putting candy where a kid can reach it. Then when they give in to temptation, the adult pounces and says, "No touching stuff that's not yours. Into the corner with you."

If it is, I can't follow his logic. She's not grabbing at things that just happen to be in the vicinity; she's accepting things that have been offered (if insincerely). The candy analogy to this would be "Taylor, would you like some candy? Ooops, just kidding, it's not for you!" I can't follow the logic of thinking a kid needs to be disciplined for accepting an offered gift.

[Otterpop]

Wow, this thread has my blood boiling.  Imagine your DH offering a romantic vacation/family trip, talking dates and activities, getting your hopes up, mood happy, then saying he was "only kidding" it's not possible due to schedules or finances.  I would be LIVID and distrustful for a long time after that.

Heck, I even hate it when fun things get cancelled due to unavoidable real circumstances.  To do this for "kicks" is unfathomable.

[Hillia]

Agree with all the PPs who say that Grandpa is a mean, nasty bully, who should not be allowed anywhere near Taylor until he knocks it off.  His feelings in this matter are not important in the slightest.

Maybe they should find some of those fake lottery scratch off tickets for his Christmas present - the ones that look like you've won a nice cash prize.  Ha ha, isn't that funny?

[Amara]

I believe Taylor should be left out of any solution. The problem is with Grandpa. That is the person to whom the solution should be addressed.

[Lorna Mae]

I can't follow the logic of thinking a kid needs to be disciplined for accepting an offered gift.

Disciplined for displays of emotion, is what I meant. He may think that displays of emotion, especially tears/anger, are wrong, and Taylor needs to be trained out of them. 

[Jelaza]

Even if he were right, that's not his place to be doing such "training", it would be Taylor's parents to do so.

If it were me, I'd sit FIL down, point out that he is essentially lying to his grandchild and "training" Taylor to not trust a word he says, and tell him it is not his place to decide what is the right or wrong way for Taylor to deal with emotions, and if he does it again, he will be banned from visiting Taylor (either temporarily or permanently, depending on the overall relationship).  If he does it again, point out to Taylor that FIL is lying ASAP, and tell FIL to leave.

He is not joking, teasing, tricking or any other euphemism.  Using any word other than "lying" gives FIl leeway to try to wiggle out of it, and will also confuse Taylor about what lying is.

[Venus193]

I agree.

[weeblewobble]

UPDATE: Annette and I have been talking about this issue off and on since I posted this thread, and I brought up several points mentioned here.  (Particularly the one about it being unfair to leave Taylor with the person who upset her in the first place.)  Annette said her husband, Todd, agreed with this point (a lot), and they decided to change their strategy.

A few days before Christmas, Annette and Todd and Taylor stopped by for a short afternoon visit with the inlaws.  It was a fairly standard visit until FIL said, "Hey, Taylor, I bet you'll never guess what we got you for Christmas!" with this big sly grin.  He was using the same tone of voice he uses when he "sets Taylor up" and Annette and Todd's hackles immediately rose.  While Todd said in a loud firm voice, "Dad, let me stop you right there," Annette scooped Taylor up and took her out of the house.  While Annette packed Taylor into the car, Todd told FIL that he couldn't allow FIL to provoke Taylor and from now on, they would leave if FIL did it.  FIL protested that he was only going to give her a hint of what her presents were.  (Which personally, I think is sort of questionable anyway.) But Todd responded that they couldn't trust FIL to "only" tease Taylor (and not taunt her), so until FIL recognized that he was doing something hurtful by provoking her, Annette and Todd would continue responding in this fashion.

FIL told Todd he was over-reacting. MIL seemed to be in shock because she didn't respond much beyond asking them not to leave.  They did see the in laws for Christmas Eve, but FIL stayed quiet and didn't interact much with Taylor (read: pouted) and grumbled about "not being able to say anything."  I don't know if MIL read him the riot act or if FIL was shocked by Todd and Annette's reaction and didn't want them to do it again in front of the rest of the family (gathered for Christmas), embarrassing him. I don't know how long it will last, but, for now, Todd and Annette's response seems to be a successful one.

[Redsoil]

*applauds*

[cicero]

*encore*

<and sending some polish for their nice new spines>