Fiance & I were stunned at his female friend's replies

[onyonryngs]

Why did he tell her he needed more time to get her a gift card? Or is it that he wants to have time to look for a present that isn't a gift card instead? Couldn't he have bought her a gift card when he bought your gift card?

If it is indeed financial constraints, he should be honest with her and just tell her. Any reasonable friend wouldn't mind receiving a gift later in these circumstances. And an extra reasonable friend wouldn't even think about let alone expect or care about receiving a present if their friend was low on money. If there is a precedent between them that gifts will be received and expected on a certain day, all of the above dialogue is confusing and makes no sense. Is she aware of his/your financial situation?

This.  I would assume the "I need more time to shop" was someone trying to be clever when I knew they were just going to get me a gift card.  Why not just be up front and say "It's better for me financially if we can wait til XYZ date."

[TurtleDove]

I don't see why he is exchanging gifts with her at all. 

[onyonryngs]

I don't see why he is exchanging gifts with her at all.

Good point! 

[mrkitty]

Dear OP,

If I were in your position (and I have been) I would think long and hard about whether it's worth it to plan a future with your fiance at this time until he grows his own backbone. Do you really want to spend the indefinite future playing tug-of-war for your husband's time with a 'platonic' friend of his? Situations like this only get worse as time goes on, not better.

IMOP, your fiance should automatically know what is appropriate and what isn't. He shouldn't have to consult you to find out if it's okay to spend the night with his friend, or consult HER to determine YOUR (yours and his) holiday plans.

I hate to say this, but I was in a similar situation like this. My boyfriend asked me if it was okay to spend the entire night with a 'platonic' friend of his, too. Later I came to find out it wasn't so platonic after all. He was just asking my permission to test how gullible I was and how much he could get away with.

The fact that your fiance had to ask you about staying overnight with his friend indicates that at least on some level, he knows it is inappropriate. BTW, dinner and cuddling on the couch in front of a movie before staying all night - that's what people do on a romantic date.

The holiday gift giving issue is also raising a red flag for me. A platonic friend doesn't make demands about Christmas gifts - usually, they expect nothing, or at the most an inexpensive "friend" type gift - nothing more than $20 in value. A romantic girlfriend, on the other hand, would be in a position to be a little more "dictatorial" (for lack of a better term) about the type of gift per the level of seriousness of the relationship.

When I was in college, I had a good male friend who was very much like a sibling to me. At that age, we were ALL tight financially. At holiday and birthday time, the MOST we ever gave each other were cards with maybe a candy cane taped to it, or at the very maximum a $5 or $10 off card at a chain restaurant or record store. Nothing more was ever expected. Even when we got older and more financially stable, holiday and birthday gift giving was limited - holiday card, or birthday card and maybe take each other for dinner at a nice chain restaurant, or go as a group and all chip in to pay for the birthday guest's meal. Nobody agonized over gift giving. That's for serious romantic partners and spouses. (!)

OP, it sounds like you're not comfortable about any of this or you wouldn't have brought it up. Your intuition is trying to tell you something. I think you'd do well to listen to it.

If nothing else, don't make this relationship permanent until the 'platonic' friend of his is either in her rightful place....or out of the picture completely, and you're 100% comfortable with ALL of his relationships.

Take all the time you need until you genuinely feel ready, and until then, keep your options open. I wish you well.

**edited by mr kitty for additional content -- sorry**

[Shoo]

Dear OP,

If I were in your position (and I have been) I would think long and hard about whether it's worth it to plan a future with your fiance at this time until he grows his own backbone. Do you really want to spend the indefinite future playing tug-of-war for your husband's time with a 'platonic' friend of his? Situations like this only get worse as time goes on, not better.

IMOP, your fiance should automatically know what is appropriate and what isn't. He shouldn't have to consult you to find out if it's okay to spend the night with his friend, or consult HER to determine YOUR (yours and his) holiday plans.

I hate to say this, but I was in a similar situation like this. My boyfriend asked me if it was okay to spend the entire night with a 'platonic' friend of his, too. Later I came to find out it wasn't so platonic after all. He was just asking my permission to test how gullible I was and how much he could get away with.

The fact that your fiance had to ask you about staying overnight with his friend indicates that at least on some level, he knows it is inappropriate. BTW, dinner and cuddling on the couch in front of a movie before staying all night - that's what people do on a romantic date.

The holiday gift giving issue is also raising a red flag for me. A platonic friend doesn't make demands about Christmas gifts - usually, they expect nothing, or at the most an inexpensive "friend" type gift - nothing more than $20 in value. A romantic girlfriend, on the other hand, would be in a position to be a little more "dictatorial" (for lack of a better term) about the type of gift per the level of seriousness of the relationship.

OP, it sounds like you're not comfortable about any of this or you wouldn't have brought it up. Your intuition is trying to tell you something. I think you'd do well to listen to it.

If nothing else, don't make this relationship permanent until the 'platonic' friend of his is either in her rightful place....or out of the picture completely, and you're 100% comfortable with ALL of his relationships.

Until then, keep YOUR options open.   

OP, you should read this over and over again.  It is full of wisdom.

[DottyG]

Going to echo Shoo here.  Go back and reread it again.

[Mental Magpie]

Actually, I disagree with a good deal of what mrkitty said.  If everyone already knew what is and is not appropriate, this forum wouldn't exist.  If he can't ask her what bothers her, how can he be expected to automatically know?  Further, I see the "asking permission" as respect for the OP's feelings.  He was expressing a desire to do something but respected the OP's feelings more than what he wanted to do, so he wanted to clear it with her first. 

We also don't know the platonic friend demanded anything as a gift.

[SiotehCat]

If we had made plans to exchange gifts on a certain date and a friend wanted to change it, I would also ask why.

In fact, I would have expected my friend to tell me why without asking.

I don't think she was wrong to reply that she would think about it. She does have her schedule to think about also.

[DottyG]

MM, that might be true except for the whole backstory of the thing.  If this one thread were taken on its own, that might be the case, but not with everything else the guy is doing.

Is it a dealbreaker?  No.  Of course not.  However, this might be something the OP would do good to just ponder a bit to sort out what's what in the various relationships.

[SleepyKitty]

If everyone already knew what is and is not appropriate, this forum wouldn't exist.  If he can't ask her what bothers her, how can he be expected to automatically know?

I definitely get your point here, but I think that there are some things, especially in a romantic rel@tionship, that I expect my partner to automatically recognize as either appropriate or inappropriate once we've reached the stage where things are serious between us. Part of it is a measure of common sense about how to behave around others, but part of it is that I expect my partner to know me.

I think what many of us see in these types of situations is that it's a 'know your audience' type of thing. Some female friends are okay, some are not. Some women are fine with sleep-overs with platonic friends, some are not. There is no right answer, and no right way to do it. It all depends on the woman involved.

So, if the OP's boyfriend knows her so little that he can't decide what is and what isn't appropriate, that tells me he either is deliberately pretending not to know, or he doesn't care enough to learn. If your partner knows you, then your partner ought to know automatically what is and isn't appropriate for your rel@tionship. (General you, of course  ).

This is not the first time this friend has been a problem in the OP's relationship. Her boyfriend has had time to learn her. He ought to know how to behave by now. I think mrkitty is absolutely right to raise the red flags. BF shouldn't need to be told to draw boundaries and have a spine with other women - he needs to be doing it himself, without being told.

[Deetee]

But the title of this thread is that they were "stunned at his female friend's replies".

I know there is a bunch of backstory (that I have followed), but I think it really reasonable to ask clarification how her replies were anything other than completely mundane.

Her replies are fine. ("why" and "I'll think about it")
The Fiance's are a little odd.

[Mental Magpie]

MM, that might be true except for the whole backstory of the thing.  If this one thread were taken on its own, that might be the case, but not with everything else the guy is doing.

Is it a dealbreaker?  No.  Of course not.  However, this might be something the OP would do good to just ponder a bit to sort out what's what in the various relationships.

Other than the post about him staying at the friend's house over night, is there other back story?  If there isn't, then I have included the backstory in my answer.


SleepyKitty:  They've been dating for a year; unless these scenarios come up weekly (with other people than the friend), how is he supposed to automatically know how to handle them?  It doesn't mean he doesn't care enough learn, and I think that's pretty ungracious, it could mean he just isn't aware of it.

[mrkitty]

MM - I understand what you're saying, for sure. But after re-reading the original post (and the other posts by the OP and evaluating them in totality) I'm going to have to stand by what I said. I urge caution before proceeding. I'm not saying to break things off; I'm saying be careful.

I still feel there are red flags that warrant extra consideration before making a lifetime commitment. I think it's important for both parties to be on the same page in terms of expectations for the relationship and to not have any doubts; and, when I read the totality of the posts of the OP about the progression of the relationship, not only am I concerned for her, but I sense in her posts that the OP doesn't feel entirely comfortable with how things are going. Hence, I urge caution.

There are a couple of things that set off warning bells for me; one is the gift exchange conversation. Why would he need to tell her he's still shopping for a present when it was already made clear she wanted a gift card? Was it to put her off because he can't afford one? Why not just be upfront about that? Is he playing a game, trying to keep her guessing, thinking he would get her an actual item?

That by itself wouldn't bother me; friends play games like that sometimes, sometimes in a joking way. But given the fact that he had at least one ex-girlfriend calling him constantly leaving love messages and that it he seemed reluctant or seemingly had some difficulty putting a stop to that, it seems to me he has a bit of a hard time with assertiveness or communication. I think even if everything is on the up-and-up, that issue is crying out to be addressed before rings are exchanged.

Then, there is the issue of the overnight invitation. Yes, I understand he ended up cancelling that. However, I think OP and her fiance need to talk things through and decide what they both feel comfortable with - not for me to decide, obviously, but I sense they either don't see eye-to-eye since he seemed to consider the idea in the first place - and it seemed like OP wasn't comfortable with the idea at all (that's how I interpreted it, anyway.) Given that in the past he's placed limits on how much time they could spend together and the ex girlfriend phone calls/messages AND the fact that he would "forget" he had plans with his actual girlfriend yet chose time and again to blow her off and be with his other friends....yeah. I have concerns.

It could be they have different expectations for the relationship, or it could be communication issues, or it could simply be that the fiance has difficulty asserting himself, well meaning and innocent as he might be. But if there is any question - and I believe there is, or OP wouldn't be here soliciting feedback - then I think these questions should be answered and any conflict on the subject resolved before the marriage.

It's just my opinion, of course. And I guess I am projecting my own sense of values and experience on the situation - but then again, that's the only thing each of us has to offer, isn't it?

[Shoo]

It was the reply, "I'll think about it" that was so obnoxious.

Knowing the backstory, to me this was just another example of this person acting like she's got a vote in what goes on in the OP's fiance's life. 

A normal person would ask why, sure.  But a normal person would NOT say, "I'll think about it."  She'll think about WHAT?  Whether or not she'll agree to his request?  And if she disagrees?  What then?

No, this woman is just too obnoxious for words. 

[TurtleDove]

No, this woman is just too obnoxious for words.

Agreed, and I think the fiance is obnoxious for continuing to allow her in his and the OP's life. And I think mrkitty is spot on.