General Etiquette > Family and Children

Kids standing and sitting on the table

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--- Quote from: Shoo on January 02, 2013, 09:36:02 AM ---
--- Quote from: CakeEater on January 02, 2013, 01:16:47 AM ---
--- Quote from: Shoo on December 31, 2012, 12:59:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: Hotdish on December 31, 2012, 11:57:47 AM ---
--- Quote from: CakeEater on December 25, 2012, 05:34:05 PM ---Obviously, letting a toddler climb on the table while you're trying to set it or eat off it isn't OK, but I do have some sympathy for Brother and SIL. It's just not as easy as 'saying no' and the kid stops whatever thing you're wanting them to stop. It's pretty painful, sometimes, and I don't think they're horrible people for not wanting to deal with that on Christmas Day. Of course they're his parents and that's their responsibility, blah, blah, but I do understand.
--- End quote ---

It is in fact that easy, and not at all painful. Unless the parents make it that way.

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I agree.  My daughter was as active as they come, and we had no problem keeping her from doing the things she wasn't supposed to do.

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I'm not sure you understood me. I meant that you don't just say 'no' to a toddler and they comply without protesting, and wander off happily to sit quietly with their quiet toys. There's the screaming, and the kicking, and the associated wailing and gnashing of teeth. If your kids are/were of the first variety, then you're super lucky.

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My kid was of the first variety, but I don't believe luck had anything to do with it.  I believe we parented her in a way that she knew what her boundaries were, and she knew that no means no.  She wasn't a perfect child, but if we told her to do something, or not do something, she obeyed.

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I personally know parents who have parented their kids in consistent, firm, loving ways, and said kids still do the screaming thing. In one case, they took her off quite a few different foods which magically transformed her into the kind of kid you're describing. Good/bad parenting had nothing to do with it.

Good parenting makes a difference of course, but difficult kids does not equal bad parenting in all cases.

--- Quote from: Hmmmmm on January 02, 2013, 09:33:00 AM ---CakeEater, I'm not trying to argue and am asking this sincerly.  When you say having to discipline or remove a toddler from an environment is "painfull", what do you mean.

Adjectives I'd use to describe my feelings when encountered with this with my two would have been annoying, irritating, time consuming (my 10 min task now turned into a 30 min errand), dissapointing (but my dessert is so good, I don't want to leave the dinner table), or even embarrassing at times.  But I don't remember painfull.  Is it that you feel bad emotionally for the child being interrupted or is it emotionally painfull for you? 

I really am curious as I think if I better understood the the emotions of other parents dealing with this, I might be a little more sympathetic. 

--- End quote ---

Yes - painful meaning all those things. Sorry, I tend to use painful to describe difficult situations like this. Wearing, maybe? Being invited with a difficult toddler (due to temperament or bad parenting as anyone likes to believe) to an event where there is a table full of pretty, new, shiny objects and having to keep your toddler away from it, not crying because the noise is pretty annoying for everyone, and they (especially my 3-year-old with autism which we didn't know at the time) are extremely persistent with wanting to have the pretty, shiny things on the table.

It's frustrating, difficult, and after a while of this, and knowing that others present (I'm looking at my FIL here) are judging you for your perceived bad parenting and inability to corral your toddler like they were perfectly able to do when their kids were toddlers gets your insides pretty churny. It's not a pleasant way to spend Christmas, and on the whole it would have been easier to stay home, but then there's the expectation that you not only attend Christmas dinner in a situation that's difficult to deal with, but that you make the toddler behave perfectly throughout.

Well, that's hard and upsetting and painful at times.

Now, I realise that no-one else has to deal with your toddler climbing on the table, and of course you do what you need to so that they're not inconvenienced as much as possible. But it's a crappy Christmas for the parents and I sympathise with them. I get that in the OP's story, the parents didn't attempt to get their kid to behave, and that's not the right way to go, I agree.

(I may be projecting my own experience onto a totally different situation.  ;) )

^I think maybe you are:). Believe me, I KNOW that feeling, when your special needs child is behaving'normally', according to their own normal, and you are getting judgements from all around even though you are doing yoor best. It is painful, and it does make you want to stay home. That doesn't seem to be the case here though. Actually un-setting the table sends a very clear message that they are putting their child's wants ahead of other's to me. l suspect in your case if it had come to that, it would have been after a long period of obvious effort.

It is good to have a reminder though, that we should be wary of 'MY child would never have done that' arguments. After all, my amazingly obedient toddler is the SAME child as the special needs teenager that caused all my painful experiences.

I think any child is likely to do something like that at one point or another. They all test their limits, I think the difference is some parents are more willing to set limits in the first place.

I feel sorry for the little guy in question as it's clear he's being used as a pawn in his mother's power game with the OP and OP's mother, and I'd imagine with other people too.  She wants to pick a fight and he's the perfect prop, isn't he? She's probably not going to set limits because it's too convenient for her to have a kid that is unruly, and clearly cares more about her vendetta than her son's safety.

Which is of course, very sad for the little boy, and either OP or her mother are going to have to step in and remove him from the table every time he gets up there, and if his mother balks, lightly say "I don't feel like spending the holiday in the ER, so I'd rather keep him from hurting himself as much as possible."


--- Quote from: QuiltLady on December 30, 2012, 02:12:54 AM ---When one of us kids, then grandkids, would lean too far over the table my mother would say,

"Get off the table, Mable.  The quarter's for a beer."

I miss my mom!

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Interesting choice of phrase.  I wonder if she realised the implications of it?


--- Quote from: Piratelvr1121 on January 02, 2013, 04:55:45 PM ---I think any child is likely to do something like that at one point or another. They all test their limits, I think the difference is some parents are more willing to set limits in the first place.

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Toddlers all test their limits, yes. Some are much louder and more persistent than others about it. Some parents are more persistent about it as well. There's more than just one factor (parental limits) at play in these sorts of situations.


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