Kids standing and sitting on the table

[snowdragon]

ok, glad it is not just me. 

My mom does not want him on the table either but she will not speak up about it.  She does not want to create waves especially because DB's GF can be a real nasty piece of work at times who has been known to leverage the kids to give her the power position, saying things like, "Well, if you do/think that then I guess you don't want to see the kids."

It also makes it more difficult in that GF will sometimes actually put him on the table herself so me telling him to stay off the table is confusing to nephew.  Although there have been many occasions where I have removed him from the table only to see him climb right back up.  He seems to think it is a game.

In the past my general rule of thumb is that I try not to say no to him unless it is a safety issue- like taking knives/sharp objects from him and telling him he is not to play with those, or telling him he is not allowed to hit his sister or kick the dog or if he is about to break something.   

Thanks for the suggested wording.  I may try a combination of the suggestions.

that's tough but they pull that card,the one you throw down after it is "If you are willing to use your children as weapons, then you are demonstrating you don't want them to be part of our family, that will be a loss they will feel all of their lives. Do you really want to do that to your kids?" And be prepared for to follow through by kicking them out when they are unwilling to follow house rules. Allowing yourself to be manipulated like this will cause you to resent the kids and the kids deserve better than that - they have no choice in the matter.

[Iris]

This makes my blood run cold, purely from the point of view of the child's safety. Aside from the risk of falling from a table and injuring themselves, climbing on a table during a dinner with hot dishes, sharp cutlery and fragile glass items adds a whole new level of potential injuries. I bet SIL is not within arm's reach every time he is up on the table, is she?

Then add that it is dreadfully rude to allow your child to put his feet where other people are about to eat. How revolting. And to 'un-set' the table to allow him to do so? Argh!

At some stage your mother needs to decide whether she is willing to be held hostage to increasingly bratty and inconsiderate behaviour. Imagine this child's table manners as a teenager if he is allowed to continue to do as he pleases uncorrected. 2 is old enough to learn to differentiate. I would physically take him off the table and say "No, we don't climb on the furniture at Grandma's". If his mother kicks up a stink I would probably only mention the safety aspect "Look, I'm sorry, but it makes my blood run cold every time he climbs up, I'm so afraid he will hurt himself, and I'd never forgive myself if I let that happen. Isn't he precious? Did I tell you about the time he was visiting and got into the beandip?" Then repeat, repeat, repeat.

[misha412]

Ummmm, no and h-ll no.

Sounds like DNephew's parents find it easier to give in to a 2 year old than to actually parent him. Unfortunately, it makes life difficult and icky for everyone else.

If I were hosting an event (and you were in essence the host since you were preparing food) I would ask my brother to keep his child off the table. The first request would be with a "please", the second one would not.

As for SIL's efforts to unset the table, I would be putting a stop to that as well. She cannot keep her child off the table for a short time before a meal?

SIL and DB need to be sitting on either side of DNephew to keep him corralled during meals. Their child, their problem to handle. It is very unfair for anyone else to have their meal ruined because they refuse to parent a 2 year old.

[Salvage3]

You don't really say where your brother is or what he does when the situation arises.  If GF is holding the children "hostage", it is probably time that all parties start making it clear that this is not going to happen; that the child will be under brother and GF's control when in the houses of others.  I'm sure your mother is concerned that she will not see them; but I am also sure she would not want them to be hurt because of their actions and the inactions of the parents.  Certainly, you, personally, have a right to request that it stop when you are in charge.  The first time that the table was unset would have been the last time for me.  Sorry that you had to deal with this at a holiday celebration.

[mmswm]

ok, glad it is not just me. 

My mom does not want him on the table either but she will not speak up about it.  She does not want to create waves especially because DB's GF can be a real nasty piece of work at times who has been known to leverage the kids to give her the power position, saying things like, "Well, if you do/think that then I guess you don't want to see the kids."

It also makes it more difficult in that GF will sometimes actually put him on the table herself so me telling him to stay off the table is confusing to nephew.  Although there have been many occasions where I have removed him from the table only to see him climb right back up.  He seems to think it is a game.

In the past my general rule of thumb is that I try not to say no to him unless it is a safety issue- like taking knives/sharp objects from him and telling him he is not to play with those, or telling him he is not allowed to hit his sister or kick the dog or if he is about to break something.   

Thanks for the suggested wording.  I may try a combination of the suggestions.

that's tough but they pull that card,the one you throw down after it is "If you are willing to use your children as weapons, then you are demonstrating you don't want them to be part of our family, that will be a loss they will feel all of their lives. Do you really want to do that to your kids?" And be prepared for to follow through by kicking them out when they are unwilling to follow house rules. Allowing yourself to be manipulated like this will cause you to resent the kids and the kids deserve better than that - they have no choice in the matter.

I agree with Snowdragon completely. 

[Venus193]

I am not a parent and I might get raked over the coals by others for saying so, but this situation is unacceptable.  It is distasteful to most of the others and unsafe for the child.

The second the GF started to unset the table I would have stopped her and sent her into the next room with the child.   I would be telling brother and his GF to watch this child and prevent him from doing this.  Failure to comply would result in asking them to leave.

I totally agree with Snowdragon.  Are we going to be reading worse horror stories when this child is older?

[LeveeWoman]

I am not a parent and I might get raked over the coals by others for saying so, but this situation is unacceptable.  It is distasteful to most of the others and unsafe for the child.

The second the GF started to unset the table I would have stopped her and sent her into the next room with the child.   I would be telling brother and his GF to watch this child and prevent him from doing this.  Failure to comply would result in asking them to leave.

I totally agree with Snowdragon.  Are we going to be reading worse horror stories when this child is older?

Why would anyone rake you over the coals for this opinion? I cannot imagine any decent parent thinking this is acceptable.

[Venus193]

There are people -- both parents and non-parents -- who think that being a non-parent disqualifies you from even having an opinion about children.

[LeveeWoman]

There are people -- both parents and non-parents -- who think that being a non-parent disqualifies you from even having an opinion about children.

That's nuts!

[Yankeegal77]

There are people -- both parents and non-parents -- who think that being a non-parent disqualifies you from even having an opinion about children.

That's nuts!

Nuts, but unfortunately true. Not to thread jack here, but I've corrected other people's children (as in, working in retail and asking a child to please not climb the shelves) or have explained that carts cannot be taken to fitting rooms because it was a fire hazard, to be told either in a nasty or condescending manner that I "must not have kids." Not having children is beside the point.

Back on-topic, I agree with the PP who suggested calling GF on her bluff to keep the little ones away from Grandma. I'm not sure if you've updated re: your brother's attitude toward all of this, OP, but hope that the three of you present a united front that she needs to change her attitude, pronto, or it will really be the kids who are hurt in the long run. Wow, what a piece of work.

If this continues at other events, I think you're well within your rights to stop dinner and ask everyone to leave.

[CookieChica]

I'm confused... does this child not eat? My kid would also be attempting to climb on the table and grab stuff during a meal. That's why he's in a highchair with his own plate of food.

You aren't overreacting at all.

[katycoo]

When it's my table, I'd just make ita rule, consequences be damned.  But in this situation when it came time to set the table, I'd have simply said to SIL"Hey SIL, I need to set the table for lunch now so its all ready to go.  Can you keep nephew off the table so he doesn't get hurt or break anything please?"

[WillyNilly]

This probably isn't eHell approved but I'd go the Passive Aggressive route and speak to the child but in the mom's hearing range and say "now Junior, I know your mom doesn't care about your safety in this situation, but its way too dangerous for your to be on the table with the knives (or hot food, or whatever) so you need to stay on the floor/your chair" or something to that effect. She wants to use the kids as weapons, fine, use shame as yours.

[bonyk]

This probably isn't eHell approved but I'd go the Passive Aggressive route and speak to the child but in the mom's hearing range and say "now Junior, I know your mom doesn't care about your safety in this situation, but its way too dangerous for your to be on the table with the knives (or hot food, or whatever) so you need to stay on the floor/your chair" or something to that effect. She wants to use the kids as weapons, fine, use shame as yours.

I think this can be achieved without the PA dig:

"now Junior, I know your mom doesn't care about your safety in this situation, but its way too dangerous for your to be on the table with the knives (or hot food, or whatever) so you need to stay on the floor/your chair"

That works well IMO, and may not start WWIII.  Of course, if SIL is looking for offense, it may start WWIII anyway.

[johelenc1]

I don't think it matters what your family dynamic is.  I'd tell the nephew to get off the table.  Actually, I'd pick nephew up while saying, "no, no, we don't climb on tables.  It's dangerous."  I'd do it every single time he starts to or does climb on the table. If BIL or SIL actually has the audacity to actually say, "oh we allow him to climb on table", I would look perplexed and wide-eyed.  "Really?  That's just crazy.  It's so dangerous and entirely inappropriate. People eat here.  I'm sorry.  I guess he can climb on your table at your house, but if I'm around, I'm taking him off the table."

To me, it's the same as if they decided to let him play with knives or electrical sockets.  If they want to risk his life...fine.  With me around...no way.