Kids standing and sitting on the table

[Giggity]

There are people -- both parents and non-parents -- who think that being a non-parent disqualifies you from even having an opinion about children.

That's nuts!

It's also completely true, and it happens here like every other Website.

[Shoo]

Obviously, letting a toddler climb on the table while you're trying to set it or eat off it isn't OK, but I do have some sympathy for Brother and SIL. It's just not as easy as 'saying no' and the kid stops whatever thing you're wanting them to stop. It's pretty painful, sometimes, and I don't think they're horrible people for not wanting to deal with that on Christmas Day. Of course they're his parents and that's their responsibility, blah, blah, but I do understand.

It is in fact that easy, and not at all painful. Unless the parents make it that way.

I agree.  My daughter was as active as they come, and we had no problem keeping her from doing the things she wasn't supposed to do. 

[artk2002]

Obviously, letting a toddler climb on the table while you're trying to set it or eat off it isn't OK, but I do have some sympathy for Brother and SIL. It's just not as easy as 'saying no' and the kid stops whatever thing you're wanting them to stop. It's pretty painful, sometimes, and I don't think they're horrible people for not wanting to deal with that on Christmas Day. Of course they're his parents and that's their responsibility, blah, blah, but I do understand.

It is in fact that easy, and not at all painful. Unless the parents make it that way.

I agree. It takes patience and consistency but it's doable -- one of the primary jobs of a parent. If there's screaming and wailing, dealing with that is the parent's job as well. Giving in to screaming, wailing and "I don' wanna" just teaches the child that they don't have to follow directions. (This is absent any neurological issues, for those of you who want to chime in with the "but whaddabout Asperger's, etc.?" Except in the most extreme situations, those take more time and more patience, but still aren't impossible.)

It's not a matter of just saying "no," either.  They have to be taught what "no" means, because it's not automatic. For a child this age, you physically remove them, each and every time, firmly saying "no." You keep an eagle-eye out and physically stop them as soon as they start. Again with the "no."

And, frankly, I don't give a rodent's posterior what the parents want or don't want to deal with on Christmas Day. It's a 24 hour-a-day 365-day-a-year job. I say that as a parent. You don't get a day off unless you arrange it before hand, in which case the current care-giver is responsible for doing what the parent must do, and that includes teaching what "no" means. If they parents don't want to parent, then they have the choice of staying home. A 2yo takes a lot of parenting.

[VorFemme]

I had a "leash" on a shoulder harness for my two escape artists.  DD (Ambrosia Hino) has a leash for her little Houdini as well (he comes by it naturally - you should have seen how fast that little red head could VANISH into thin air). 

But all too many people today don't think that anything done by a previous generation was "right".  Granted, opium & alcohol to put a child to sleep while teething is a bit over the top, beating a child black & blue is just wrong, and a few other things we've learned more about how children learn and we can do better now.

But that doesn't mean that everything done in the name of "parenting" before January 1, 2001 is "so old fashioned & twentieth century".  The other phrase that comes to mind is "some things have stood the test of time" - and I would bet that Leonard da Vinci's, Benjamin Franklin's, and Julius Ceasar's mothers made THEM stay off the table when it was getting set for dinner!

[SPuck]

I had a "leash" on a shoulder harness for my two escape artists.  DD (Ambrosia Hino) has a leash for her little Houdini as well (he comes by it naturally - you should have seen how fast that little red head could VANISH into thin air). 

My brother was leashed, and one of the daycare centers in the middle of town used to employ leashes for every kid when they brought the kids to the library. I think they stopped employing the leashes because they still had to many kids trying to go into different directions. Now they use a rope that the kids have to hang onto and they all understand the concept of walking where the rope leads them.

[Piratelvr1121]

While the little guy is doing something pretty normal for his age (mine does it too) his parents need to step up and actually, umm, parent. Climbing all over the dinner table isn't cool, especially when its covered in food. We are constantly plucking DS off the table and scolding him (oddly, at restaurants...he doesn't do this at home). He seems to thinks the scolding is part of the fun 

I would be gentle with scolding him, but firm with your brother about getting control over the situation...and progressively firmer as needed.

There are people -- both parents and non-parents -- who think that being a non-parent disqualifies you from even having an opinion about children.

I don't think it's an automatic disqualification, but there are some instances that it applies. Mostly though, its particular people or opinions that it applies to, IMO, not just non-parents in general (example, one friend lecturing me on getting a kiddie-leash for my son. Umm, I know how much he wiggles and breaks out of my grasp, thanks, I'd like to reduce the chances of him breaking away in a parking lot or crowded store)

Before having kids, and even when I just had one, I used to scoff at the thought of having a leash on a kid.  Then the second child was born when Pirateboy was able to walk and I started to understand, but even  more so when pirateboy2 could crawl.  Then I had one going one way and one going another and while it was fine at home, in public it was a nightmare. 

[VorFemme]

Not all non-parents understand that two kids are fully capable of going in three directions.  I'm not sure HOW...

[acicularis]

It is in fact that easy, and not at all painful. Unless the parents make it that way.

I don't think it's that easy --BUT you do it anyway. Over and over and over again sometimes! That's life with a toddler! Sometimes you have to stay within arm's reach of your toddler, if that's what it takes.

One of my kids was so persistent at that age, that if she had been allowed on a table even once, I would have spent the next six months removing her from tables, or distracting her from tables.

I really find it rather bizarre that a parent would think it's OK to let a kid climb on the dining room table in someone else's house.

[mmswm]

Not all non-parents understand that two kids are fully capable of going in three directions.  I'm not sure HOW...

Only three?  You must have had really laid back kids.

[VorFemme]

Not all non-parents understand that two kids are fully capable of going in three directions.  I'm not sure HOW...

Only three?  You must have had really laid back kids.

Nope - I am a Gemini and was going in two directions myself - so they only went in three more directions than I did....there was almost a ten year difference - it helped.....

Now - my brother's two girls who are two years apart - at 8 & 10 probably were going in three directions each - none of them the same as their sister's...

[mmswm]

Not all non-parents understand that two kids are fully capable of going in three directions.  I'm not sure HOW...

Only three?  You must have had really laid back kids.

Nope - I am a Gemini and was going in two directions myself - so they only went in three more directions than I did....there was almost a ten year difference - it helped.....

Now - my brother's two girls who are two years apart - at 8 & 10 probably were going in three directions each - none of them the same as their sister's...

My kids are REALLY close in age.  Oldest son and middle are 25 months apart, then youngest son came 11 months later.  So there's barely 36 months between number 1 and number 3.  Talk about CRAZY.  To make it even MORE fun, my little brother is 6 months younger than my number 3.  There were many, many times I had all four of them together, and without any other adult, during little bro's first year.  I had a quad stroller and they could still manage to go in 57 different directions.  I'm still not sure how I managed all that.

[sidi-ji]

 

[Emmy]

Here's what I would do. Remove Nephew from the table and take him to his parents and say, "I'm trying to get dinner on the table and could use some help. GF, please keep Nephew out of the dining room. Brother, please clean and reset the table." Then I would return to the kitchen, leaving the parents to deal with the toddler. I would not leave the kitchen until I had dinner to place on the table. Chaos in the dining room? "Mom, Dad, why don't we just eat in the kitchen while the food is hot? GF and Brother, let us know when the dining room table is set and we'll join you."

I agree that this would have been a good way to ask for help.  I'd also ask either parent to wipe down the table before setting it again.  It would be beyond frustrating to do the work of preparing a holiday meal for a family only to have somebody undoing it.  GF sounds like a real SS and is making her son into one too.  Who would think it was ok to unset a table at another person's house because their 2 year old wanted to play on it?  I have a 17 month old DD and I know how hard it can be to entertain her and keep her out of mischief, especially in somebody else's home.  I also realize that this is my job as a parent and it would be rude to let my child do whatever she wanted at the inconvenience of everyone else because it was easier for me.

Is the little boy allowed to crawl around on the table when the food is on it?  I don't see how that is even possible for a child to crawl on a crowded table with hot dishes.

[Piratelvr1121]

It is in fact that easy, and not at all painful. Unless the parents make it that way.

I don't think it's that easy --BUT you do it anyway. Over and over and over again sometimes! That's life with a toddler! Sometimes you have to stay within arm's reach of your toddler, if that's what it takes.

One of my kids was so persistent at that age, that if she had been allowed on a table even once, I would have spent the next six months removing her from tables, or distracting her from tables.

I really find it rather bizarre that a parent would think it's OK to let a kid climb on the dining room table in someone else's house.

I'll admit, there are pictures of myself as a toddler standing on coffee and dining room tables. (always my paternal grandmother's dining table, come to think of it)  I've been told they used to put me up there after dinner was over and dishes were cleared and would let me dance to entertain everyone. And by dance I mean walk around and bounce to music.

I haven't had any Coyote Ugly moments in my adulthood, so along the way someone taught me dancing on tables was not okay, but I'm sure after being allowed on the table and encouraged to play around, it couldn't have been easy for them to teach me otherwise.

[CakeEater]

Obviously, letting a toddler climb on the table while you're trying to set it or eat off it isn't OK, but I do have some sympathy for Brother and SIL. It's just not as easy as 'saying no' and the kid stops whatever thing you're wanting them to stop. It's pretty painful, sometimes, and I don't think they're horrible people for not wanting to deal with that on Christmas Day. Of course they're his parents and that's their responsibility, blah, blah, but I do understand.

It is in fact that easy, and not at all painful. Unless the parents make it that way.

I agree.  My daughter was as active as they come, and we had no problem keeping her from doing the things she wasn't supposed to do.

I'm not sure you understood me. I meant that you don't just say 'no' to a toddler and they comply without protesting, and wander off happily to sit quietly with their quiet toys. There's the screaming, and the kicking, and the associated wailing and gnashing of teeth. If your kids are/were of the first variety, then you're super lucky.

I am able to keep my toddler from climbing on the table at someone's house, but sometimes it's because I pick him up off the table and walk out of the room/house while the wailing/kicking etc is going on. And that's pretty painful.

Of course, that's what you do, because letting the child climb all over the table while it's being set and people are eating off it aren't OK.

Obviously, letting a toddler climb on the table while you're trying to set it or eat off it isn't OK, but I do have some sympathy for Brother and SIL. It's just not as easy as 'saying no' and the kid stops whatever thing you're wanting them to stop. It's pretty painful, sometimes, and I don't think they're horrible people for not wanting to deal with that on Christmas Day. Of course they're his parents and that's their responsibility, blah, blah, but I do understand.

It is in fact that easy, and not at all painful. Unless the parents make it that way.

I agree. It takes patience and consistency but it's doable -- one of the primary jobs of a parent. If there's screaming and wailing, dealing with that is the parent's job as well. Giving in to screaming, wailing and "I don' wanna" just teaches the child that they don't have to follow directions. (This is absent any neurological issues, for those of you who want to chime in with the "but whaddabout Asperger's, etc.?" Except in the most extreme situations, those take more time and more patience, but still aren't impossible.)

It's not a matter of just saying "no," either.  They have to be taught what "no" means, because it's not automatic. For a child this age, you physically remove them, each and every time, firmly saying "no." You keep an eagle-eye out and physically stop them as soon as they start. Again with the "no."

And, frankly, I don't give a rodent's posterior what the parents want or don't want to deal with on Christmas Day. It's a 24 hour-a-day 365-day-a-year job. I say that as a parent. You don't get a day off unless you arrange it before hand, in which case the current care-giver is responsible for doing what the parent must do, and that includes teaching what "no" means. If they parents don't want to parent, then they have the choice of staying home. A 2yo takes a lot of parenting.

I do have a child with autism, so I can probably attest to what is or isn't possible, and what takes more work. And as someone who has listened to their fair share of screaming and wailing, and who has physically removed kid/left events early/not attended events/attended events that weren't kid friendly but attended due to family expectations/done a lot of work so that our issues don't impact on those around us, I can tell you that it is pretty painful.

I've also done it, because that's what you do - even on Christmas Day.

My point was not that these parents shouldn't do this - of course they should - just that I sympathise with them. It's a painful job.