Author Topic: Where does the responsibility lie?  (Read 7996 times)

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Redsoil

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Re: Where does the responsibility lie?
« Reply #45 on: December 31, 2012, 06:29:48 AM »
I just checked, and Cuddlepie is an Australian resident. 

Most people I know here are fairly well aware that both P plate drivers and professional drivers must have a ZERO blood alcohol reading at all times when driving.  Even for "normal" drivers here, the limit is 0.05 (not 0.08 as I believe it is in the US and other places).  Australian rules are pretty strict with BAC enforcement - even a whiff will have a teen (or truck driver for instance) detained, and taken back to the police station for further testing, and possible prosecution/loss of licence. 

Given that, I would think the hosts should have mentioned that some of the foods contained alcohol - I certainly would have (and I have no kids, just in case that factors in).  I'd mention to the teen to double-check in future, as it seems people may not think of it.  Ultimately, he's the one driving, it's his licence and future.

*Just so others know, Aussies are legally able to drink once they turn 18, so it is definitely an issue with P plate drivers.  Plenty of ads out there reminding people about it re. drinking and driving, and limits.
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RingTailedLemur

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Re: Where does the responsibility lie?
« Reply #46 on: December 31, 2012, 07:10:24 AM »
I would never dream of mentioning that I used 1tbsp of sherry in the marinade for the stirfry or a dollop of wine in the bolognese. Not out of spite, but it honestly wouldn't even cross my mind to do so. If somebody cannot have any alcohol, It is their responsibility to let me know - just like with any other dietary restriction. And in that case I will of course respect it.

The trouble is, it wouldn't cross my mind that you would put alcohol in something like bolognese.  I react very badly to red wine (migraines), so I turn it down if offered and am happy to explain why.  It would not occur to me to point at every dish and ask if it has red wine in it because it seems an odd ingredient to me.  Much like the thread we had about putting chicken somethingorother in mashed potatoes.

MariaE

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Re: Where does the responsibility lie?
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2012, 07:58:25 AM »
I would never dream of mentioning that I used 1tbsp of sherry in the marinade for the stirfry or a dollop of wine in the bolognese. Not out of spite, but it honestly wouldn't even cross my mind to do so. If somebody cannot have any alcohol, It is their responsibility to let me know - just like with any other dietary restriction. And in that case I will of course respect it.

The trouble is, it wouldn't cross my mind that you would put alcohol in something like bolognese.  I react very badly to red wine (migraines), so I turn it down if offered and am happy to explain why.  It would not occur to me to point at every dish and ask if it has red wine in it because it seems an odd ingredient to me.  Much like the thread we had about putting chicken somethingorother in mashed potatoes.

Presumably, if we were friends I would know that about you, and then I would know not to add red wine to stuff when cooking.
 
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RingTailedLemur

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Re: Where does the responsibility lie?
« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2012, 07:59:26 AM »
I would never dream of mentioning that I used 1tbsp of sherry in the marinade for the stirfry or a dollop of wine in the bolognese. Not out of spite, but it honestly wouldn't even cross my mind to do so. If somebody cannot have any alcohol, It is their responsibility to let me know - just like with any other dietary restriction. And in that case I will of course respect it.

The trouble is, it wouldn't cross my mind that you would put alcohol in something like bolognese.  I react very badly to red wine (migraines), so I turn it down if offered and am happy to explain why.  It would not occur to me to point at every dish and ask if it has red wine in it because it seems an odd ingredient to me.  Much like the thread we had about putting chicken somethingorother in mashed potatoes.

Presumably, if we were friends I would know that about you, and then I would know not to add red wine to stuff when cooking.

I'd have thought so, but I have been given two bottles of red wine this year even though I thought everyone knew  :-\

MariaE

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Re: Where does the responsibility lie?
« Reply #49 on: December 31, 2012, 08:09:17 AM »
I would never dream of mentioning that I used 1tbsp of sherry in the marinade for the stirfry or a dollop of wine in the bolognese. Not out of spite, but it honestly wouldn't even cross my mind to do so. If somebody cannot have any alcohol, It is their responsibility to let me know - just like with any other dietary restriction. And in that case I will of course respect it.

The trouble is, it wouldn't cross my mind that you would put alcohol in something like bolognese.  I react very badly to red wine (migraines), so I turn it down if offered and am happy to explain why.  It would not occur to me to point at every dish and ask if it has red wine in it because it seems an odd ingredient to me.  Much like the thread we had about putting chicken somethingorother in mashed potatoes.

Presumably, if we were friends I would know that about you, and then I would know not to add red wine to stuff when cooking.

I'd have thought so, but I have been given two bottles of red wine this year even though I thought everyone knew  :-\

I'm sorry :( That sucks.
 
Dane by birth, Kiwi by choice

RingTailedLemur

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Re: Where does the responsibility lie?
« Reply #50 on: December 31, 2012, 10:00:32 AM »
I would never dream of mentioning that I used 1tbsp of sherry in the marinade for the stirfry or a dollop of wine in the bolognese. Not out of spite, but it honestly wouldn't even cross my mind to do so. If somebody cannot have any alcohol, It is their responsibility to let me know - just like with any other dietary restriction. And in that case I will of course respect it.

The trouble is, it wouldn't cross my mind that you would put alcohol in something like bolognese.  I react very badly to red wine (migraines), so I turn it down if offered and am happy to explain why.  It would not occur to me to point at every dish and ask if it has red wine in it because it seems an odd ingredient to me.  Much like the thread we had about putting chicken somethingorother in mashed potatoes.

Presumably, if we were friends I would know that about you, and then I would know not to add red wine to stuff when cooking.

I'd have thought so, but I have been given two bottles of red wine this year even though I thought everyone knew  :-\

I'm sorry :( That sucks.

It's okay, it's just a little embarrassing sometimes.  I might post a new thread about it.

cocacola35

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Re: Where does the responsibility lie?
« Reply #51 on: December 31, 2012, 10:35:43 AM »
I wonder though if the guy was just pulling the kid's chain and didn't really think there was any harm.  Having for dinner a pot roast cooked in Guinness, or having penne a la vodka, or putting wine in the red sauce really is not something the average person is even remotely concerned with when it comes to driving and intoxication, and is not really something most people would think to warn a diner about... but its an easy way to perhaps scare a teen.  Is the guest known as a 'kidder'?

That was my thinking when I first read the OP.  I cook with wine often.  The most I use in recipes is about half a cup and it's almost always sauteed out of the pan and combined with about 12 other ingredients.  Knowing that, there is absolutely no chance someone could get drunk or even have traces of that show up on a Breathalyzer test after eating my risotto or sauteed kale.  It wouldn't wouldn't even occur to me to mention I used wine in the cooking to parents or minors unless I was concerned about allergies.   


WillyNilly

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Re: Where does the responsibility lie?
« Reply #52 on: December 31, 2012, 12:17:45 PM »
I would never dream of mentioning that I used 1tbsp of sherry in the marinade for the stirfry or a dollop of wine in the bolognese. Not out of spite, but it honestly wouldn't even cross my mind to do so. If somebody cannot have any alcohol, It is their responsibility to let me know - just like with any other dietary restriction. And in that case I will of course respect it.

The trouble is, it wouldn't cross my mind that you would put alcohol in something like bolognese.  I react very badly to red wine (migraines), so I turn it down if offered and am happy to explain why.  It would not occur to me to point at every dish and ask if it has red wine in it because it seems an odd ingredient to me.  Much like the thread we had about putting chicken somethingorother in mashed potatoes.

Presumably, if we were friends I would know that about you, and then I would know not to add red wine to stuff when cooking.

I think its important to remember in the OP's story of this thread, the alcohol dish was brought by a fellow dinner guest, not prepared by the host and the comment made to the teen was made by this guest not the hosts (the kid's uncle, et all).

I do think, Ringtail, its a safe assumption that any tomato sauce based dish might have red wine in it.  Even a pizza sauce.  Sure plenty don't, but its a pretty common thing - common enough it wouldn't be odd to ask about it because you are going to get a "oh actually yeah" a good number of times.

Allyson

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Re: Where does the responsibility lie?
« Reply #53 on: December 31, 2012, 04:14:56 PM »
Even if I have been told sometime in the past that a friend has X restriction...well, with my group, most people have *something* they can't have. So I think expecting the cook to remember everything they've ever been told about what someone can't have is unrealistic. People forget, and unless it was a very direct, serious conversation, may not really have been paying attention to a comment in passing. I think either every dish should have a list of ingredients and possible allergens, or it's up to the person with the restrictions to mention it at the time. It's just too easy to make a mistake otherwise.

MurPl1

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Re: Where does the responsibility lie?
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2013, 12:02:27 PM »
To those who think it's unreasonable to expect a teenager to be responsible enough to ask about food ingredients when he has a restriction, I have to counter with the fact that this is a person that has been deemed responsible enough to drive a vehicle.  If you aren't responsible enough to watch your diet knowing your restrictions, then you are not responsible enough to drive something that can seriously injure or kill someone.

Lynn2000

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Re: Where does the responsibility lie?
« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2013, 01:36:52 PM »
What an interesting thread! I do think it depends somewhat on the "culture" of Australia and the extent of general knowledge about new drivers having zero alcohol, which as a non-Australian I don't think I could give a good opinion on.

I will say, though, that it sounds to me like the uncle was making a joke, the kind of joke that new teen drivers in many places (like the US) get, and although it may have been in poor taste and eyeroll-worthy, I wouldn't consider it any more sinister than joking about a new teen driver being able to reach the pedals or back up without hitting the mailbox, etc.. Not necessarily a nice and confidence-boosting thing to say, but also not indicative of a larger conspiracy to get the kid thrown in jail, you know?

I think this is a very good point:

To those who think it's unreasonable to expect a teenager to be responsible enough to ask about food ingredients when he has a restriction, I have to counter with the fact that this is a person that has been deemed responsible enough to drive a vehicle.  If you aren't responsible enough to watch your diet knowing your restrictions, then you are not responsible enough to drive something that can seriously injure or kill someone.

And this could be a very good learning experience for the young driver, especially if he's never dealt with having other food restrictions before.
~Lynn2000

auntmeegs

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Re: Where does the responsibility lie?
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2013, 05:21:29 PM »
I wonder though if the guy was just pulling the kid's chain and didn't really think there was any harm.  Having for dinner a pot roast cooked in Guinness, or having penne a la vodka, or putting wine in the red sauce really is not something the average person is even remotely concerned with when it comes to driving and intoxication, and is not really something most people would think to warn a diner about... but its an easy way to perhaps scare a teen.  Is the guest known as a 'kidder'?

That was my thinking when I first read the OP.  I cook with wine often.  The most I use in recipes is about half a cup and it's almost always sauteed out of the pan and combined with about 12 other ingredients.  Knowing that, there is absolutely no chance someone could get drunk or even have traces of that show up on a Breathalyzer test after eating my risotto or sauteed kale.  It wouldn't wouldn't even occur to me to mention I used wine in the cooking to parents or minors unless I was concerned about allergies.

POD.  That this is even remotely an issue is bizarre to me.