Author Topic: Is 7am-8pm too long of a favor to move? UPDATE #49  (Read 7501 times)

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jedikaiti

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Re: Is 7am-8pm too long of a favor to move?
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2012, 10:20:10 PM »
I will let e-hell know how much he received later tonight.

Okay.  I'm staying up late for this one!  Anyone want to wager here?  I'm guessing $50 (or less) for both days.

Combined.

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Amara

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Re: Is 7am-8pm too long of a favor to move?
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2012, 10:20:56 PM »
This guy needs to be reported to the labor department of your state. Okay, maybe you can't do that as he's not an official employer but he should be! He is a cheat, a liar, a user, a real [forbidden word]. Your son sounds like such a great person. OP, I encourage you to begin to teach him the difference between being a man who prides himself on keeping his word and a sap who falls for anyone's line who wants to use him. He's too good to tumble into the latter category.


Iris

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Re: Is 7am-8pm too long of a favor to move?
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2012, 10:27:10 PM »
Congratulations on keeping your temper and not killing your DH, by the way, because after hearing him worry so much about the feelings and thoughts of a jerk who is taking advantage of his son, to turn to his wife and be able to directly say "You are agitated and need to calm down." would result in instant death in my neck of the woods.

I will let e-hell know how much he received later tonight.

Okay.  I'm staying up late for this one!  Anyone want to wager here?  I'm guessing $50 (or less) for both days.

I would not take that bet. I like to hang on to my money  ;)
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penelope2017

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Re: Is 7am-8pm too long of a favor to move?
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2012, 10:42:15 PM »
Elaborating on your son being a hard worker has little to do with this situation. You are letting your entire family be held hostage to this man's slave labor for reasons unclear. Im utterly confused and saddened by this situation and frankly unsure of the reason you posted it to begin with. You havent answered questions or clarified as resquested.

By your follow up posts it seems you think this situation is something impressive about your family's work ethic. I'm not seeing that. And I don't recall anyone asking you to clarify how hard your son works.

suzieQ

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Re: Is 7am-8pm too long of a favor to move?
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2012, 10:49:27 PM »
I think you should be waiting in the yard at this man's house when they pull up. Take your son, request his payment and leave.
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crella

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Re: Is 7am-8pm too long of a favor to move?
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2012, 10:50:01 PM »
penelope2017, I think the OP was addressing AustenFan's comment:

Quote
Unless the teenagers present were superhuman with incredibly un-teenage like attention spans I doubt they did manual labor for 7 hours straight, so find the argument that he owed them $70 faulty. Between drink/lunch/rest breaks I can easily see hours being shaved off the 7 they were there.

I wondered, is meal time deducted from wages? I worked a part time job in college, and I admit that it was my last part-time job, so things may have changed, but a 9-hour day, with pay for 9 hours, included the hour for half hour for lunch and two 15-minute breaks....

Hmmmmm

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Re: Is 7am-8pm too long of a favor to move?
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2012, 10:55:39 PM »
OP, I get how it is hard to differentiate between a paying job and doing a favor for a friend.  At least you guys will have more info when volunteering for future activities.


I admire your son being willing to take this on and do it a second day.  if my kids had arrived some where at 7am to find the organizers not ready, they probably would have high tailed it home.

kareng57

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Re: Is 7am-8pm too long of a favor to move?
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2012, 11:13:22 PM »
OP, if you encouraged your son to take this job, knowing this guy's history, then IMO you are partially to blame if he gets stiffed, and should reimburse him for the difference.  You are then free to try to get the payment from the guy yourselves, although it sounds as though the chances are about nil.

Bob Ducca

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Re: Is 7am-8pm too long of a favor to move?
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2012, 11:21:12 PM »
Missing his actual job in order to do a favor for someone doesn't strike me as dependable. Did he call in to the karate school to let them know he wouldn't be there to teach his class?

JenJay

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Re: Is 7am-8pm too long of a favor to move?
« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2012, 11:30:02 PM »
I think you should be waiting in the yard at this man's house when they pull up. Take your son, request his payment and leave.

Exactly!

As for payment, I'll be shocked if he gave more than an additional $50. He'll justify it by not counting the hours to and from, when they stopped to eat, and maybe even deducting an hour or two more to compensate for "not getting a full day's work" out of them yesterday.  >:(

RegionMom, please help your son practice saying "I'm sorry, that won't be possible." if he doesn't want to do something. Remind him that you don't have to have a conflicting appointment to justify it, it's okay if the reason is because you just don't wanna! Also it may be wise to have a back-up plan for getting home in case someone decides to hold him hostage and work him like a mule. He sounds like a very honest, hard-working young man. Sadly, many people will walk all over him given the chance. He's starting out in his adult life and the phrase "Begin as you mean to go on." comes to mind.

kherbert05

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Re: Is 7am-8pm too long of a favor to move?
« Reply #40 on: December 27, 2012, 11:38:47 PM »
As a parent you screwed up you should have flat out told your son, no you have an obligation this Dad is a user that cheated you out of the money you were due last time. You know they won't get you home for your obligation to the karate school.

 You and all the other parents need to step up for your kids and tell the Dad he owes them $10 an hour for all the hours they worked including transport time.

You son owes the karate place/students an appology. He failed them. 

Any future requests for help should be met with - No you still owe me $x for the last time.
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blarg314

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Re: Is 7am-8pm too long of a favor to move?
« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2012, 11:49:43 PM »
I think the friend was definitely unfair. He was offering $10 an hour, with an estimate of 5 hours for the job. That estimate should include reasonable breaks - going to the bathroom, eating lunch if the work period covered lunch time, plus breaks. In many areas.

The work itself sounds reasonable, if not pleasant, given what you already know about the family's basic housekeeping skills.  But for the first day, the friend should have payed $70 without question.  As it was, he under payed, and had the nerve to complain that they hadn't put in a full day's work yet.

However, taking on the job for a second day, without control over your own transportation, was not a particularly sensible thing to do - the results could easily be predicted. And I'll predict that he will get under payed for this job too, when he's eventually allowed to leave.

Teaching teens to take responsibility for their jobs, and follow through on what they'll say they'll do is important. But I would also teach him the difference between a favour and a job, and that there are three situations where you can walk away from a job immediately, regardless of what you promised.

1) Your employer is asking you to do something illegal or unsafe.

2) Your employer is physically or mentally abusive

3) You arrive and find that the terms of employment have been changed from what you initially agreed to. This includes changing the salary, or expecting you to work for free.


Teens are often taken shameless advantage of in the workplace, because employers know that they are often ignorant of basic legal work rights, and because teens are used to having to do what authority figures tell them to, even when the instructions are unfair or don't make sense.

cicero

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Re: Is 7am-8pm too long of a favor to move?
« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2012, 05:02:02 AM »
OP - your husband is wrong, this is not *helping* this is slave labor for little to no pay.

Sorry, but you  (both) dropped the ball here. I get it that you are all for helping out, and volunteering and i think it 's great that your 17 YO does a lot of volunteering in the world. but when someone offers you a *job* and states the terms at *X$ per hour* then that is a job. and this friend person took shameless advantage of you. *this* is the place where you /your DH stand up to the guy and say "sorry, the agreement was 10$ an hour. the kids worked 7 hours, that comes to 70$". I don't care that they are teens. I don't care that (as someone said upstream) teens might spend half the time *not working* (which, btw, i don't buy. when my son was a teen, and he and his friend got jobs, they took it very seriously) - the guy is the one who hired teens! he can't say now, "well, they're teens, they work for five minutes and goof off for half an hour".

this happened to us once when DS was younger and had a baby sitting job with someone we didn't know well. he was supposed to baby sit in the baby's home while one of the parents was there (they were writing a thesis or something). they made up a time and when DS got there the parent said "oh, i don't need you because the baby is still sleepign" and didn't want to pay and DS (must have 14 or so at the time) didn't know what to do. we went back and told them that that was not ok- ds had comitted to working for them, passed up other jobs, and they had to pay something. i think we agreed to take half and i refused to let DS baby sit for them ever again.

this is where parents need to step in. your DS cannot learn to stand up for himself unless he is taught.

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Steve

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Re: Is 7am-8pm too long of a favor to move?
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2012, 05:42:21 AM »
It sounds like a valuable lesson for the entire family. I would not be able to resist the urge to tell the dad that my kids would never be working for him again and why.
I would also consider paying DS the difference between what was paid and what was owed. As others have said it is not really his fault, he has already paid twice over, missing his karate and working a very very long day.



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Re: Is 7am-8pm too long of a favor to move?
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2012, 06:06:08 AM »
RegionMom, I think the problem is that you are a nice family, which people are taking advantage of. I notice you are having a similar issue with the people wanting you be there wedding coordinator for free. I think its great your family are so keen to assist others but save it for people who will appreciate it. My parents used to fall in that trap and they now more careful who they will do favours for.

Its not just case that this family are unorganised, they are taking the mick. When the group turned up at seven and no one was up, everyone should have left and gone home. Can you son drive? If so it may be an idea  idea for him.always to bring his own transport if he works for anyone else. If he finds himself in a similar situation he can  pack up and go home.