Another vacation etiquette question

[Firecat]

I wouldn't think badly of someone, who after all that, didn't want to just hand over the final product of all that time, effort and research just because someone asked for it.

I wouldn't think "badly" of such a person, but especially if I was there when the photo was taken and was in the photo I would find it offputting.  My relationship would cool.  For the OP, of course she can protect her work product. It's hers to protect.  But she cannot also expect that her friend who was there with her will not think it's weird she won't share her photos.

But the OP did provide the pictures the friend was in.

[CakeEater]

I wouldn't think badly of someone, who after all that, didn't want to just hand over the final product of all that time, effort and research just because someone asked for it.

I think perhaps I am thinking of a narrower situation than you are.  As I stated, if I were in this particular situation ((1)on vacation and (2)with a friend) I would find it strange and alienating if they were not open to sharing their pictures.  I do not expect any person I am with to share any picture they happen to take - such as a picture taken at dinner at the local pub by a friend of a friend.  However, as I consider the whole point of sharing a vacation with someone to have new experiences/memories, I would find a friend's unwillingness to share pictures odd (provided I had asked nicely and offered my own pictures).  Several people close to me are in professions (including photography) that some people tend to take advantage of, and I wouldn't dream of assuming I would be provided a freebie when they are in "professional mode."  But all of them have freely shared creations that were made in "friend mode," which I greatly appreciate.

It does sound like the OP's friend was not particularly considerate in how he asked, and OP attempted to find a middle ground.  I suppose I'm just saying that I can understand where he was coming from, even if he went about it particularly gracelessly.

On another note, I appreciate hearing the other views on this topic - it helps me to recognize my own assumptions.

I get that, too. I don't know anyone who is any kind of photographer, and sharing photos among friends is a very common thing to me as well. No-one's photos are better than anyone else's though, except by accident, which I think is a different situation.

I guess I'm picturing the OP wanting to enlarge artfully taken pictures of the Eiffel Tower, or Notre Dame, (and valuing the photos on that level) and the friend more wanting happy snaps of their holiday, and knowing that the OP's would be better than his. OP did share the photos with him in them, which may have been more in the second category.

I wouldn't think badly of someone, who after all that, didn't want to just hand over the final product of all that time, effort and research just because someone asked for it.

I wouldn't think "badly" of such a person, but especially if I was there when the photo was taken and was in the photo I would find it offputting.  My relationship would cool.  For the OP, of course she can protect her work product. It's hers to protect.  But she cannot also expect that her friend who was there with her will not think it's weird she won't share her photos.

Anyone thinking "not sharing" of anything is weird does not make it weird, nor mean that the expectant recipient's view is of greater import than the view of the person who is expected to share.

Well said!

[snowdragon]

I do a LOT of photography - and just like the recipes I create, the pictures I draw and the soap I make - they are mine to decide whom I want to gift them to. Frankly if someone thinks that just because they were there when I took the picture, they have automatically entitled to a copy - wouldn't have time to cool off the relationship. I'd be the one pulling back and I would be doing it from the first demand/request/whine about it.  I don't ever take pictures of people I know (unless they are pictures deliberately take of my niece and nephew to send to their maternal grandparents overseas) so the pictures of traveling companion is a non -issue but for the rest of my pictures, you're not entitled to them anymore than you would be anything else I own or create. The whole, "you have it, I want it, you have to give it to me" attitude does not go over well with me.
 

[Raintree]

I had a similar issue. After a trip, one of the people in my group wanted me to upload all my pictures from my camera to her laptop, before I'd gone home and looked at them myself and sorted them. I really didn't want to do this. Not that there was anything private, or that I didn't want to share; I was happy to share them, once I'd sorted them! But she was quite persistent and wanted it right now, before we'd even got home.

The issue for me was that on the trip, I'd gone off on my own plenty of times and played around with various settings on the camera (which I'd only recently acquired), tried this, tried that, taken a zillion shots of the same scene, using slightly different angles and settings, tried various nature shots with different lighting, and so forth and so on. I can't really pinpoint why, but I felt very uncomfortable uploading the entire collection of unsorted and unprocessed images onto her laptop.

Like, I'll share, but let me go home and sort them out first!!! (And I promise not to delete any of the ones of her that there's a possibility she might want!)

[Raintree]

I do a LOT of photography - and just like the recipes I create, the pictures I draw and the soap I make - they are mine to decide whom I want to gift them to. Frankly if someone thinks that just because they were there when I took the picture, they have automatically entitled to a copy - wouldn't have time to cool off the relationship. I'd be the one pulling back and I would be doing it from the first demand/request/whine about it.  I don't ever take pictures of people I know (unless they are pictures deliberately take of my niece and nephew to send to their maternal grandparents overseas) so the pictures of traveling companion is a non -issue but for the rest of my pictures, you're not entitled to them anymore than you would be anything else I own or create. The whole, "you have it, I want it, you have to give it to me" attitude does not go over well with me.

Exactly, and there is that too. Some people see vacation pictures as memories/snapshots that are there for sharing, and don't understand that for others, photography is an art form, a creation, a joy, and it's the photographer who gets to decide what to do with those images.

[Dragons 8 Cactus]

My sister takes lovely photographs with her very nice camera. Now at most of our family events, no one else bothers to take pictures at all- they just all make a quick request she "email them copies." It's awful the way people get so comfortable with the idea of someone else doing all the work and having all the care and mindfulness to capture wonderful pictures, and how blithely they request the pictures for themselves. I completely get where the OP was coming from on this.

^^ This is where I stand too.

[Dragons 8 Cactus]

I do a LOT of photography - and just like the recipes I create, the pictures I draw and the soap I make - they are mine to decide whom I want to gift them to. Frankly if someone thinks that just because they were there when I took the picture, they have automatically entitled to a copy - wouldn't have time to cool off the relationship. I'd be the one pulling back and I would be doing it from the first demand/request/whine about it.  I don't ever take pictures of people I know (unless they are pictures deliberately take of my niece and nephew to send to their maternal grandparents overseas) so the pictures of traveling companion is a non -issue but for the rest of my pictures, you're not entitled to them anymore than you would be anything else I own or create. The whole, "you have it, I want it, you have to give it to me" attitude does not go over well with me.

Exactly, and there is that too. Some people see vacation pictures as memories/snapshots that are there for sharing, and don't understand that for others, photography is an art form, a creation, a joy, and it's the photographer who gets to decide what to do with those images.

Ditto ^^

[blarg314]

I think that if I had a friend who refused to give me *any* photos after a mutual trip*, on the grounds that I could buy an expensive camera and take my own if I wanted them, it would affect how I saw that person.  They have the right to do that, certainly, but it doesn't necessarily reflect well on their personality or outlook on life. It could affect how eager I would be to do favours or un-necessary nice things for that person in the future.

There are two components to vacation photos (or event photos). One is the artistic aspect, and that's one that I can see keeping the results for yourself. The other is the snapshot aspect - photos to remind you of a fun trip. Given that it's kind of hard to take photos of yourself, and in a lot of places I travel using a tripod for a self photo is tantamount to sticking a 'steal me' sign on it, swapping some photos to get a good set after a trip is not that unreasonable request.

*Note that I'm not talking about wanting to save really good shots for artistic use, or not being willing to pass over all the photos, or even a request that I keep them only for personal use.

[kansha]

I think that if I had a friend who refused to give me *any* photos after a mutual trip*, on the grounds that I could buy an expensive camera and take my own if I wanted them, it would affect how I saw that person.  They have the right to do that, certainly, but it doesn't necessarily reflect well on their personality or outlook on life. It could affect how eager I would be to do favours or un-necessary nice things for that person in the future.

There are two components to vacation photos (or event photos). One is the artistic aspect, and that's one that I can see keeping the results for yourself. The other is the snapshot aspect - photos to remind you of a fun trip. Given that it's kind of hard to take photos of yourself, and in a lot of places I travel using a tripod for a self photo is tantamount to sticking a 'steal me' sign on it, swapping some photos to get a good set after a trip is not that unreasonable request.

*Note that I'm not talking about wanting to save really good shots for artistic use, or not being willing to pass over all the photos, or even a request that I keep them only for personal use.

but the OP *gave* the friend the photos the friend was in...

[CakeEater]

I think that if I had a friend who refused to give me *any* photos after a mutual trip*, on the grounds that I could buy an expensive camera and take my own if I wanted them, it would affect how I saw that person.  They have the right to do that, certainly, but it doesn't necessarily reflect well on their personality or outlook on life. It could affect how eager I would be to do favours or un-necessary nice things for that person in the future.

There are two components to vacation photos (or event photos). One is the artistic aspect, and that's one that I can see keeping the results for yourself. The other is the snapshot aspect - photos to remind you of a fun trip. Given that it's kind of hard to take photos of yourself, and in a lot of places I travel using a tripod for a self photo is tantamount to sticking a 'steal me' sign on it, swapping some photos to get a good set after a trip is not that unreasonable request.

*Note that I'm not talking about wanting to save really good shots for artistic use, or not being willing to pass over all the photos, or even a request that I keep them only for personal use.

And the OP was about her friend asking that all 600 odd photos, including the artistic images, be loaded onto his ipad. I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask your professional photographer friend for the shot they took of you standing at the top of the Eiffel tower.  What would be even better is asking friend to take a photo of you with your ipad, and then they might offer to take it with their camera and give you a copy.

I make decorated cakes, as I said previously. On their birthday, my friend could buy a cake at the shops, or buy a box mix and whip up a cake. They wouldn't miss out on having cake just because I didn't make them a super fancy one - they could make their own. It mightn't be as nice, or as pretty, but they'd have cake. If they wanted one of mine, they should ask me for one and offer to pay for it.  They don't just get to demand my skills be employed on their behalf just because I have them.

Friend took his own photos with his ipad. They mightn't be as good as the OP's, but he had photos. He doesn't get to ask for all her shots, just because they're better than his.

Who is the worse friend, the one who demands what is mine, or me for refusing to give it?

[LifeOnPluto]

What gets me, is that the OP's friend wanted all 650 of her photos. To me, that seems unreasonable. If he'd requested only some of them - say the ones with him, and a few other notable ones - I'd think it would be a bit mean-spirited if the OP was to refuse. But for the friend to demand all 650 photos is quite cheeky IMO.

Also, in those 650 photos, there will invariably be ones that aren't that great. Over or under exposed. Or blurred. Or several of the same scene, etc. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable handing over "bad" photos to a friend. Several posters have raised the possibility of the friend passing off the photos as theirs, to the wider public. But what about the opposite scenario? What if the friend credits the "bad" photos as the OP's? I know that I would not be comfortable with someone else posting my shoddy photos all over the internet.

 

[snowdragon]

I think that if I had a friend who refused to give me *any* photos after a mutual trip*, on the grounds that I could buy an expensive camera and take my own if I wanted them, it would affect how I saw that person.  They have the right to do that, certainly, but it doesn't necessarily reflect well on their personality or outlook on life. It could affect how eager I would be to do favours or un-necessary nice things for that person in the future.

There are two components to vacation photos (or event photos). One is the artistic aspect, and that's one that I can see keeping the results for yourself. The other is the snapshot aspect - photos to remind you of a fun trip. Given that it's kind of hard to take photos of yourself, and in a lot of places I travel using a tripod for a self photo is tantamount to sticking a 'steal me' sign on it, swapping some photos to get a good set after a trip is not that unreasonable request.

*Note that I'm not talking about wanting to save really good shots for artistic use, or not being willing to pass over all the photos, or even a request that I keep them only for personal use.

The way around that is to have someone else take the picture for you, on your camera, then it's your photo- of you. The person who gets to decide if it's an unreasonable request is the person who took them - not the person who they happened to be traveling with at the time

[Talley]

My husband is an avid photographer, who owns semi-pro equipment and often takes professional-quality pictures. He does share pictures, but only after he has gone over them himself, weeded out the bad ones or any experimental shots. And then he gets to choose which pictures he shares. He also shoots RAW, which a lot of people don't know what to do with, I think.

If anyone ever told him to just upload all the pictures he took at a specific event wholesale for the other person to do with as they please, I don't think that that person would see any of his pictures for a long time. It is part a matter of copyright (they are his to do with as he pleases, and he absolutely hates Facebook and similar social media, so he doesn't particularly want his photos to end up there) and part a matter of pride (he doesn't want anyone to see the bad pics).

I think every photographer has the right to choose to share or not share their photos (unless they get paid for it, but even then they get to weed out and edit first, I would assume).

[MariaE]

The friend was rude in the way he demanded the photos, rather than asking for them - no doubt about that.

However, that said, I would never dream of going on vacation with a friend, taking photos, and then not sharing those photos with my friend. If I'm close enough to want to go travelling with them, I'm close enough to them that giving them a copy of my photos is a matter of course. If they didn't want to reciprocate, I'd take that as in indication of how close they feel the friendship is, and adjust my actions accordingly.

[helixa]

It's not just a question of owning the photos, it's the fact that he obviously decided he could freeload off the OP and look around lots without taking photos himself then get her's later.
It takes time out from just being able to see everything when you take photos, so that's an added factor.