Another vacation etiquette question

[baglady]

I wonder if OP's friend is simply stuck in that mindset from film camera days, when people were more likely to give away most or all their photos from an event. But that's because:

With film, we're talking 24 or 36 or 48 photos, not hundreds;

Many photo processing outfits offered two sets of prints for the price of one. It was good for business, but it also encouraged people to share their prints;

Before digital photography and digital editing programs, 99.9999999 percent of the vacation, holiday and other event photos taken by participants (as opposed to professionals) were plain old souvenir snapshots. They were not art that was going to be framed or hung on the wall ... except perhaps by the people in them, or their loved ones. Pros and art photographers did their own processing, or used labs catering to pros, not the drugstore or Fotomat.

If this is what he's grown up with, he may be thinking, "Hey, they're just vacation snaps; what's the big deal?" Which doesn't excuse his behavior, but it may explain it.

I think where the OP went wrong was giving him the photos he was in right then and there. She would probably have been better off telling him, "Sorry, no. Not sharing these with anyone till I've gone through them all. At home. I'll be sure you get copies of the ones I know you'll appreciate."

Not that what she did was rude ... she was trying to be generous. But it gave him an opening to demand more, whereas a flat "No" *might* have shut him down more effectively.

[JenJay]

*snip*
 I only realized this mistake the following day when much to my chagrin these unrelated photos were posted on her facebook page, open to the world. So moving forward I guard my pictures tighter now.
*snip*

 

Did she at least credit you?

I think, going forward, a good thing to tell friends you vacation with might be "FYI, I'll be taking a lot of photos on our trip, and I'm happy to email you copies of any you're in, but I won't be able to share all of my work because I use some of my photos professionally. I'm letting you know up front because previously I've had friends assume I'd be the Official Trip Photographer and not bring their own camera."

[pickles50]

No she didn't credit me at all. I thought about saying something to her but at this time in my life I am choosing to pick my battles (so to speak). I chalked it up as a lesson learned. She did thank everyone for saying how lovely a photo it is. Digital photography has certainly taken on an entirely new set of rules. I'm not sure if it because it monetarily doesn't cost to email vrs actually handing over prints. I get more fustrated when I have to explain my reasoning and people think its "no big deal just a picture"...then if its no big deal just a picture why don't you take your own pictures?

[JenJay]

No she didn't credit me at all. I thought about saying something to her but at this time in my life I am choosing to pick my battles (so to speak). I chalked it up as a lesson learned. She did thank everyone for saying how lovely a photo it is. Digital photography has certainly taken on an entirely new set of rules. I'm not sure if it because it monetarily doesn't cost to email vrs actually handing over prints. I get more fustrated when I have to explain my reasoning and people think its "no big deal just a picture"...then if its no big deal just a picture why don't you take your own pictures?

She accepted the compliments on the photo?!  That is just... there are no words. I don't think I could stand it. I would have to say "Hey friend, I'm glad everyone likes my photo, but I actually didn't intend to give you that one as I'm using it for another project. I'd really appreciate it if you'd remove it." I'll admit I probably wouldn't have said anything up until a few years ago, though. For some reason the closer I get to 40 the less likely I am to put up with any amount of crud. Or maybe it's because, coincidentally, my oldest child is nearly a teen. Hmmm... 

[gramma dishes]

You could have called her and asked her to immediately remove the unrelated pictures from her site as you had not intended her to have them and they weren't necessary to the project. 

I'm sure you know this now, but may not have at the time.  Pictures in the U.S. or Canada are automatically copyrighted.  No one can use them without your express permission.

As far as other people commenting positively on those pictures and her just thanking them instead of crediting you?  Oh no.  No. No. No.  That would never fly with me! I would have been furious!!     

[TurtleDove]

As far as other people commenting positively on those pictures and her just thanking them instead of crediting you?  Oh no.  No. No. No.  That would never fly with me! I would have been furious!!   

If the friend was taking credit for having taken the photo, yeah, I would probably have commented that I actually took it if she didn't correct the misassumption.  I don't know what the subject of the photo was, but from what has been posted I didn't get that sense but more of a "look at this cool shot - I was actually there and saw this awesome thing" which is not at all the same thing.  I mean, I can see how as a photographer you might be chafed, but not everyone thinks of things that way.  Unless the comments were along the lines of "wow - I have never seen a more artfully framed photo of the Grand Canyon - you are a stellar photographer" I bet people were simly commenting "whoa - the Grand Canyon sure is amazing!"

I think that it where some of us are clashing.  Some posters seems to assume the friend is maliciously trying to steal from the OP or feels entitled to take credit for her photos.  I would assume the friend just wants to have cool reminders of a fun trip and is confused why the OP wouldn't want him to have them.

[PastryGoddess]

As far as other people commenting positively on those pictures and her just thanking them instead of crediting you?  Oh no.  No. No. No.  That would never fly with me! I would have been furious!!   

If the friend was taking credit for having taken the photo, yeah, I would probably have commented that I actually took it if she didn't correct the misassumption.  I don't know what the subject of the photo was, but from what has been posted I didn't get that sense but more of a "look at this cool shot - I was actually there and saw this awesome thing" which is not at all the same thing.  I mean, I can see how as a photographer you might be chafed, but not everyone thinks of things that way.  Unless the comments were along the lines of "wow - I have never seen a more artfully framed photo of the Grand Canyon - you are a stellar photographer" I bet people were simly commenting "whoa - the Grand Canyon sure is amazing!"

I think that it where some of us are clashing.  Some posters seems to assume the friend is maliciously trying to steal from the OP or feels entitled to take credit for her photos.  I would assume the friend just wants to have cool reminders of a fun trip and is confused why the OP wouldn't want him to have them.

No one is assuming, the OP has said in a previous post that this person has taken credit for her photos in the past. 

[Firecat]

As far as other people commenting positively on those pictures and her just thanking them instead of crediting you?  Oh no.  No. No. No.  That would never fly with me! I would have been furious!!   

If the friend was taking credit for having taken the photo, yeah, I would probably have commented that I actually took it if she didn't correct the misassumption.  I don't know what the subject of the photo was, but from what has been posted I didn't get that sense but more of a "look at this cool shot - I was actually there and saw this awesome thing" which is not at all the same thing.  I mean, I can see how as a photographer you might be chafed, but not everyone thinks of things that way.  Unless the comments were along the lines of "wow - I have never seen a more artfully framed photo of the Grand Canyon - you are a stellar photographer" I bet people were simly commenting "whoa - the Grand Canyon sure is amazing!"

I think that it where some of us are clashing.  Some posters seems to assume the friend is maliciously trying to steal from the OP or feels entitled to take credit for her photos.  I would assume the friend just wants to have cool reminders of a fun trip and is confused why the OP wouldn't want him to have them.

No one is assuming, the OP has said in a previous post that this person has taken credit for her photos in the past.

POD. And I know I've brought that up several times during the discussion as well. So I think the OP had even more reason to refuse to share the photos, and was actually being generous to provide the ones the friend was in at all.

[TurtleDove]

No one is assuming, the OP has said in a previous post that this person has taken credit for her photos in the past.

What I understood is that the friend posted the photo to facebook.  Lots of people post photos to facebook without the assumption understanding or implication that the poster took the photograph.  Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see that the friend affirmatively was saying, "Look at this awesome photo I took!"  That I would have a problem with.  But I absolutely understand posting something (I wouldn't, but I understand it as not malicious) like "look at how awesome the Grand Canyon is!"

[Firecat]

No one is assuming, the OP has said in a previous post that this person has taken credit for her photos in the past.

What I understood is that the friend posted the photo to facebook.  Lots of people post photos to facebook without the assumption understanding or implication that the poster took the photograph.  Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see that the friend affirmatively was saying, "Look at this awesome photo I took!"  That I would have a problem with.  But I absolutely understand posting something (I wouldn't, but I understand it as not malicious) like "look at how awesome the Grand Canyon is!"

I disagree. I think that, unless the friend specifically said something like "check out the awesome photo OP took", then he was, in essence if not explicitly, taking credit for the photo.

[TurtleDove]

I disagree. I think that, unless the friend specifically said something like "check out the awesome photo OP took", then he was, in essence if not explicitly, taking credit for the photo.

I think that is where the clash in opinions on this issue lies.  Reasonable minds can disagree, but I certainly do not assume that every photo posted by my friends on facebook was taken by them, especially if there are "professional quality."  And really, I don't care.  I just enjoy a cool photo.

[White Lotus]

I am a lousy photographer.  No matter how I try, no matter how much I spend on equipment, no matter how I study up on it, and learn editing software, I am still a lousy photographer. 
I am a pretty good painter, though.  I take photographs to capture scenes, yes, but particularly light, so when I get back to my studio, I can paint images from wherever I have been.  And leave out inconvenient utility poles, roads, and other things extraneous to the image I want to see in the final painting.  Nobody needs those photos, or any of mine, unless I have taken some snapshot/people photos (I paint landscapes, so I rarely take photos of anything else) and then they are welcome, though someone else probably took better ones.
I know some pretty good photographers.  I will ask them sometimes to take a photo of something I want to paint that I know I absolutely cannot photograph well enough to get the painting I see in my mind.  And I generally send them a painting now and again, because I appreciate it.
These photographers tell me they take dozens of shots to get a usable one, and maybe hundreds to get a great one.  They use their talents and skills all the way from deciding what to shoot through editing programs and final versions.  I would no more expect to be given access to raw photographs than I would hand over rough pencil sketches. 
I am proud of my work, but my paintings are finished products, and the prep work is not my product.  Same with a photographer's raw photos.  The asker/traveling companion either understands photography even less than I do (barely possible), or is both inconsiderate and rude. OP simply didn't know how to say "These are not ready yet.  I will send you some when they are."  She was flummoxed, and given the length and spirited nature of this thread, I can see why.

[gypsy77]

I think art vs snapshot is actually not even a consideration. I am not an amateur photographer, and I would not post my pictures online, nor give copies of them to someone else.

I'm fat. Very fat. Maybe this makes me more ensitive to this possibility, but let's say I share my pictures with my friend. Let's also say that one of the picures has someone in it who is different in some way, be it fat, old fashioned hair, whatever it is. My friend uploads those pictures to facebook, and doesn't have the greatest privacy settings. One of her friends, Jane,  likes or comments on that picture, and it is now in Jane's newsfeed visible to all of Janes friends.

And then it ends up submitted to a site like lamebook, or failbook, or people of wal-mart, or the jillion other sites that exist solely to make fun of people. (Go to lamebook and click on the photo category, if you'd like to see what I am talking about).

So to me, it does not come down to a question of art vs snapshots, or sharing vs hoarding. Both my reasons for not sharing and the OP's reasons are valid. And yes, anyone is allowed to think I am odd for that. But I think it would be a pretty poor friend who would not understand my need for privacy, or who would not support someone who takes photos as their creative outlet and would back off a friendship for it.

[Firecat]

I think art vs snapshot is actually not even a consideration. I am not an amateur photographer, and I would not post my pictures online, nor give copies of them to someone else.

I'm fat. Very fat. Maybe this makes me more ensitive to this possibility, but let's say I share my pictures with my friend. Let's also say that one of the picures has someone in it who is different in some way, be it fat, old fashioned hair, whatever it is. My friend uploads those pictures to facebook, and doesn't have the greatest privacy settings. One of her friends, Jane,  likes or comments on that picture, and it is now in Jane's newsfeed visible to all of Janes friends.

And then it ends up submitted to a site like lamebook, or failbook, or people of wal-mart, or the jillion other sites that exist solely to make fun of people. (Go to lamebook and click on the photo category, if you'd like to see what I am talking about).

So to me, it does not come down to a question of art vs snapshots, or sharing vs hoarding. Both my reasons for not sharing and the OP's reasons are valid. And yes, anyone is allowed to think I am odd for that. But I think it would be a pretty poor friend who would not understand my need for privacy, or who would not support someone who takes photos as their creative outlet and would back off a friendship for it.

POD to the bolded. Maybe I'm weird (ok, I probably am...) but to me, one of the good things about having friends in the first place is sometimes running into some differing points of view between us...and talking those through. Sometimes we still disagree, but that doesn't mean that either of us "backs off" from the friendship. Sometimes we just agree to avoid certain subjects; sometimes we both learn something; sometimes it really isn't a big deal, or is only as big a deal as we allow it to be. Sometimes one or both of us changes our thinking a bit.

I think this sharing photos issue could be a perfect example, at least with fairly close friends. If I had a close friend, and made what was to me a normal request and they declined, I'd at least ask for their reasoning and try to understand it if it was something important to me. I wouldn't assume that we weren't as close as I'd thought or that I'd offended them in the absence of additional evidence that such was the case - that seems like a big over-reaction to me.

[bloo]

I think art vs snapshot is actually not even a consideration. I am not an amateur photographer, and I would not post my pictures online, nor give copies of them to someone else.

I'm fat. Very fat. Maybe this makes me more ensitive to this possibility, but let's say I share my pictures with my friend. Let's also say that one of the picures has someone in it who is different in some way, be it fat, old fashioned hair, whatever it is. My friend uploads those pictures to facebook, and doesn't have the greatest privacy settings. One of her friends, Jane,  likes or comments on that picture, and it is now in Jane's newsfeed visible to all of Janes friends.

And then it ends up submitted to a site like lamebook, or failbook, or people of wal-mart, or the jillion other sites that exist solely to make fun of people. (Go to lamebook and click on the photo category, if you'd like to see what I am talking about).

So to me, it does not come down to a question of art vs snapshots, or sharing vs hoarding. Both my reasons for not sharing and the OP's reasons are valid. And yes, anyone is allowed to think I am odd for that. But I think it would be a pretty poor friend who would not understand my need for privacy, or who would not support someone who takes photos as their creative outlet and would back off a friendship for it.

POD to the bolded. Maybe I'm weird (ok, I probably am...) but to me, one of the good things about having friends in the first place is sometimes running into some differing points of view between us...and talking those through. Sometimes we still disagree, but that doesn't mean that either of us "backs off" from the friendship. Sometimes we just agree to avoid certain subjects; sometimes we both learn something; sometimes it really isn't a big deal, or is only as big a deal as we allow it to be. Sometimes one or both of us changes our thinking a bit.

I think this sharing photos issue could be a perfect example, at least with fairly close friends. If I had a close friend, and made what was to me a normal request and they declined, I'd at least ask for their reasoning and try to understand it if it was something important to me. I wouldn't assume that we weren't as close as I'd thought or that I'd offended them in the absence of additional evidence that such was the case - that seems like a big over-reaction to me.

I agree with both viewpoints. And, although I'm not 'very fat', I am utterly unphotogenic. I dislike most photos of myself. You have to catch me at just the right angle to get a decent pic of me. So I'm sensitive to people just posting any photo they want on a social network or emailing them to all and sundry. So maybe that contributes to my feelings of wanting to control what is 'mine'.

But I may not conciously be able to identify that feeling much less articulate it to someone. So I'd appreciate someone just respecting, "please don't post photos of me or my photos on FB" or "I'll share some of the pics I've taken after I've gone through them."