Author Topic: Little House books S/O thread  (Read 12590 times)

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Jape

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Re: Little House books S/O thread
« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2013, 02:36:00 AM »
I would take it to mean a seizure as well.  Sometimes babies just don't get named immediately. 

Was Grace's diary published?  I'd love to read that!  I still own all my Little House books.  I don't think I can convince my boys to read them, but I'll try with Farmer Boy at least.

I second the recommendation to read Alison Arngrim's book for anyone who loved the tv show.  It was a combination of hilarious and heartbreaking.

BB-VA

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Re: Little House books S/O thread
« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2013, 08:02:29 AM »
If Carrie had had Type 1 diabetes as a child, she would not have surivived to adulthood.   Diabetes was a terminal illness prior to 1921 and the discovery of insulin - most survived a year or less from the date of diagnosis.  Insulin changed the face of diabetes from a terminal illness to a chronic one - not a cure, but a treatment. 

If she developed Type 1 later in life, after the discovery of insulin, she might have done quite well for many years.  I was diagnosed with Type 1 at the age of 23, which was 35 years ago (and now you all know how old I am!).   

As for Rose - there is evidence that she EDITED the books, and suggested different ways to tell the story and things to add and leave out.   Laura wrote the books in longhand and Rose typed them and edited as she typed.  As more books were written, Rose did much less editing.

Here's a book that has correspondence and other data to back that theory:

http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Laura-Ingalls-Wilder-BIOGRAPHY/dp/082621648X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357044447&sr=8-1&keywords=becoming+laura+ingalls+wilder

Collections of the articles that Laura wrote for "The Missouri Ruralist" are available and definitely show her writing ability.  She was not an uneducated little old lady living in the backwoods.

There is also evidence that Rose swiped at least one plot from her mother, as in her book "Let the Hurricane Roar". 

The Brewsters - Tommy didn't exactly kill Clarence, but he was responsible for his death.  He threw a bone at Clarence which cut him, and Clarence developed tetanus from the wound.  Tommy and Clarence were half brothers, not cousins.

The Pioneer Girl website used to have tons of info, but a lot of it has been taken down.   Ms. Cleaveland has announced plans to modernize the site but right now she is mostly on Facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/pioneergirl

There are still lots of pictures and other info.

PS.  I always though it was pretty obvious that Laura had a crush on Cap, in the beginning at least.  IMHO.


"The Universe puts us in places where we can learn. They are never easy places, but they are right. Wherever we are, it's the right place and the right time. Pain that sometimes comes is part of the process of constantly being born."
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Just Lori

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Re: Little House books S/O thread
« Reply #47 on: January 01, 2013, 11:32:44 AM »
Remember in "On the Banks of Plum Creek" when the neighbor girl wanted Laura's doll and Ma made her give it away?  I remember being very disturbed by that when I first read the book, because I couldn't imagine giving away my most beloved toy just because the neighbor kid wanted it.

Can you imagine if little Laura came to Ehell?  "My father is out of town, so it's just my mother and sisters and me at home.  Our neighbor helps with the heavy work, and yesterday his wife and daughter came to visit.  The daughter started to destroy everything in the house, so we let her hold my favorite doll as a distraction.  She told her mother (in their own language - they don't speak English well) that I gave her the doll, and my mother made me follow through and give away my doll.  I miss my doll.  Was my mother right?"


hermanne

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Re: Little House books S/O thread
« Reply #48 on: January 01, 2013, 11:59:07 AM »
I still remember chunks of the books, almost word-for-word. (Just don't ask me what I had for dinner last week! ;) )

I like cooking, especially with historic recipes. I'd love to try the Christmas candy they made by boiling maple syrup and molasses and pouring it on snow in circles and sqiggles.

If you haven't seen it, there's a Little House Cookbook with all the fabulous recipes, including that one.

http://www.amazon.com/Little-House-Cookbook-Frontier-Ingalls/dp/0064460908

I also enjoyed John E . Miller's Becoming Laura Ingalls Wilder.

Thanks! It's on my wishlist.
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guihong

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Re: Little House books S/O thread
« Reply #49 on: January 01, 2013, 12:07:53 PM »
I've always found it sad that Laura and Almanzo never had any other children after their son, and Laura at the time was only in her early 20's.  Almanzo had a stroke and then a serious illness (diptheria?), so he might have been unable to father other children after that. 

Grace Ingalls' husband was the uncle of the painter/illustrator Harvey Dunn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Dunn (the article doesn't mention this relationship)

I never liked how the TV series kept Carrie as a toddler, and not an especially articulate or interesting character (same with Grace, who never aged).  Carrie had, in my opinion, one of the most interesting lives of all the sisters: she worked for a newspaper, was a single woman homesteader along the lines of Almanzo's sister, and married late in life to a mine owner who was instrumental in carving and naming Mount Rushmore. 



TylerBelle

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Re: Little House books S/O thread
« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2013, 12:10:14 PM »
I too winced at the part where Laura had to give away her doll, but thankfully in the end, she got her back.

I loved the descriptions of the meals that Almanzo ate growing up!  Always made my mouth water.
The same here, how they'd describe it all in detail, was yum. I've never had 'apples 'n' onions' but it sounds rather good.
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cheyne

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Re: Little House books S/O thread
« Reply #51 on: January 01, 2013, 01:14:50 PM »
I've always found it sad that Laura and Almanzo never had any other children after their son, and Laura at the time was only in her early 20's.  Almanzo had a stroke and then a serious illness (diptheria?), so he might have been unable to father other children after that. 
 

I always thought that Laura never had more children due to the RH factor.*  We are not told if she ever became pregnant or suffered miscarriages, as these would be things a woman of those times would never talk about.

*I don't know if Laura was RH neg or not, just speculating.

BB-VA

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Re: Little House books S/O thread
« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2013, 02:22:39 PM »
There has been speculation that Almanzo's "stroke of paralysis" following the diphtheria (see "First Four Years") was actually polio, and that was why he had mobility issues later.

I have always thought that Almanzo, like Desi Arnaz, never got as much credit as he deserved. 

Also, here's another book I recommend highly, "Laura Ingalls Wilder, A Writer's Life" by Pamela Smith Hill.

http://www.amazon.com/Laura-Ingalls-Wilder-Writers-Biography/dp/097779556X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357093001&sr=8-1&keywords=pamela+smith+hill

edited to try to neaten up the link.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 09:17:17 PM by BB-VA »
"The Universe puts us in places where we can learn. They are never easy places, but they are right. Wherever we are, it's the right place and the right time. Pain that sometimes comes is part of the process of constantly being born."
- Delenn to Sheridan: "Babylon 5 - Distant Star"

minky

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Re: Little House books S/O thread
« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2013, 02:32:03 PM »
I never liked how the TV series kept Carrie as a toddler, and not an especially articulate or interesting character (same with Grace, who never aged).  Carrie had, in my opinion, one of the most interesting lives of all the sisters: she worked for a newspaper, was a single woman homesteader along the lines of Almanzo's sister, and married late in life to a mine owner who was instrumental in carving and naming Mount Rushmore.

I don't think that the original intent of the show was to exclude Carrie, but the Greenbush twins were terrible actresses.  My belief (based on nothing, really) is that Michael Landon didn't want to replace them because they were part of the "family" but they couldn't handle the acting, so they got few lines.

I agree with you that the real Carrie led an interesting life.  In adulthood, she was more of a pioneer girl than Laura.  I never got the impression that she was a sickly adult, as some people seem to be implying.  She seemed the most like Laura to me, even in childhood.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 03:48:55 PM by minky »

Daffydilly

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Re: Little House books S/O thread
« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2013, 02:48:53 PM »
I loved the books and adore how they mature as Laura matures. My one regret was there weren't anymore books on just Almanzo growing up after Farmer Boy. And they left out one sister of his named Laura. The descriptions of food always left my mouth watering. My mother once found the Little House cookbook at the library, but we never made anything from it.

Has anyone read Mary Ingalls On Her Own? I'm curious about how accurate it is. Unfortunately, every spin off series with different branches of the family have been disappointing to me. There's magic in the original other authors just can't recreate. I'd love to read the diaries of Grace, Carrie or Mary. Mary once said in the books she wanted to become a school teacher, but Laura did that instead.  And she wanted to become an author too, I wonder if Laura made the decision to write for Mary too.

I watched the TV series for a while but was always disappointed in it. Too many liberties with Mary having a suitor instead of following her college career and learning independence. And my biggest peeve was the dog. Jack was a bulldog type in the books. And they made him a cute looking sheepdog mix in the show. He was such a faithful dog and devoted to Laura. They should have done a better job honoring his memory in the show.

GratefulMaria

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Re: Little House books S/O thread
« Reply #55 on: January 01, 2013, 03:35:05 PM »

Constructing the Little House: Gender, Culture, and Laura Ingalls Wilder http://www.amazon.com/Constructing-Little-House-Culture-Ingalls/dp/1558491228 is a pretty thought-provoking work -- Little House through a feminist lens.  I don't know that I found it disillusioning in and of itself, but it certainly was a part of how differently I was seeing the books as an adult.  They were my literary comfort food up through my adolescence.

The Ghost in the Little House was tougher going for me, as it really brought home how grim (to use a PP's very apt word) life must have been for the family, and what a sad and difficult legacy that can leave.

I spent some time this afternoon looking these books up on Amazon.  I really, really hope that the authors were off base with them.

The "Constructing" book, according to the reviews left, puts a women's lib spin on the series, and also implies that Laura had incestuous feelings toward Charles.  I do think that this author is very, very  wrong.  My grandma was born in 1891, and I spent a lot of time with her.  Women of Laura's time did not aspire to be just like men.  I think that they correctly assumed that they were valuable partners on the frontier, but I don't think that they had the women's lib mindset at all.

As for the "Ghost" book, anything is possible.  This book apparently depicts Laura as a toxic mother, and says that Rose ghosted the Little House books.   Laura did a great deal of writing for several local publications however, and she learned as she progressed.  I don't think that it is necessarily true that Rose ghosted all of the Little House books.  I also doubt that Laura was the toxic mother portrayed in this book.  Even if she were, I don't think that Rose would have wanted to air the dirty laundry before the world.  People of her time had more of a concept of privacy than we do nowadays.  This book was written several decades after Rose's death.

Some of those who left reviews on Amazon seemed to think that the author was making rather large leaps at the conclusions that he had drawn about Laura and Rose's rela*tionship.  The author, William V.  Holtz, also wrote about his difficult early life in a Finnish American family.  Perhaps his early difficulties color his feelings about family life.

Agreed.  The speculations about an incestuous climate in "Constructing" were a real reach, I thought.  Romanticizing someone is not necessarily romantic, if I'm making sense.

The points about materialism seemed more interesting to me.


doodlemor

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Re: Little House books S/O thread
« Reply #56 on: January 01, 2013, 05:38:59 PM »

Constructing the Little House: Gender, Culture, and Laura Ingalls Wilder http://www.amazon.com/Constructing-Little-House-Culture-Ingalls/dp/1558491228 is a pretty thought-provoking work -- Little House through a feminist lens.  I don't know that I found it disillusioning in and of itself, but it certainly was a part of how differently I was seeing the books as an adult.  They were my literary comfort food up through my adolescence.

The Ghost in the Little House was tougher going for me, as it really brought home how grim (to use a PP's very apt word) life must have been for the family, and what a sad and difficult legacy that can leave.

I spent some time this afternoon looking these books up on Amazon.  I really, really hope that the authors were off base with them.

The "Constructing" book, according to the reviews left, puts a women's lib spin on the series, and also implies that Laura had incestuous feelings toward Charles.  I do think that this author is very, very  wrong.  My grandma was born in 1891, and I spent a lot of time with her.  Women of Laura's time did not aspire to be just like men.  I think that they correctly assumed that they were valuable partners on the frontier, but I don't think that they had the women's lib mindset at all.

As for the "Ghost" book, anything is possible.  This book apparently depicts Laura as a toxic mother, and says that Rose ghosted the Little House books.   Laura did a great deal of writing for several local publications however, and she learned as she progressed.  I don't think that it is necessarily true that Rose ghosted all of the Little House books.  I also doubt that Laura was the toxic mother portrayed in this book.  Even if she were, I don't think that Rose would have wanted to air the dirty laundry before the world.  People of her time had more of a concept of privacy than we do nowadays.  This book was written several decades after Rose's death.

Some of those who left reviews on Amazon seemed to think that the author was making rather large leaps at the conclusions that he had drawn about Laura and Rose's rela*tionship.  The author, William V.  Holtz, also wrote about his difficult early life in a Finnish American family.  Perhaps his early difficulties color his feelings about family life.

Agreed.  The speculations about an incestuous climate in "Constructing" were a real reach, I thought.  Romanticizing someone is not necessarily romantic, if I'm making sense.

The points about materialism seemed more interesting to me.

I think that I will get those books from library interloan.  They do sound very interesting.  All of the books that have been mentioned on this thread sound interesting, actually.  I had no idea that there were so many out there. 

About Laura's baby - I've always wondered if the diphtheria had anything to do with his death.  According to the Zochert book Laura and Almanzo were very ill in the spring of 1888, and the poor little baby was born in August of 1889.  I have no idea how long diphteria stays in someone's body.

BB-VA brought up an interesting point with the speculation of polio.  From what I read online I think that it could be very harmful to a pregnant woman, especially in the first trimester.

Laura and Almanzo certainly had an unfair number of disasters in their early marriage!

Jocelyn

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Re: Little House books S/O thread
« Reply #57 on: January 01, 2013, 05:47:21 PM »
   I have no idea how long diphteria stays in someone's body.
 

You either defeat the bacteria, or it defeats you. While Laura may have been in a weakened condition due to diphtheria toxin, it's not likely that she would have lived for over a year with a chronic infection.

BB-VA

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Re: Little House books S/O thread
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2013, 09:19:16 PM »
   I have no idea how long diphteria stays in someone's body.
 

You either defeat the bacteria, or it defeats you. While Laura may have been in a weakened condition due to diphtheria toxin, it's not likely that she would have lived for over a year with a chronic infection.

True.  However, if she was in early pregnancy at the time she had diphtheria, could it have affected the baby?  and if not, could it affect her ability to carry a child later?
"The Universe puts us in places where we can learn. They are never easy places, but they are right. Wherever we are, it's the right place and the right time. Pain that sometimes comes is part of the process of constantly being born."
- Delenn to Sheridan: "Babylon 5 - Distant Star"

Firecat

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Re: Little House books S/O thread
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2013, 10:07:18 PM »
   I have no idea how long diphteria stays in someone's body.
 

You either defeat the bacteria, or it defeats you. While Laura may have been in a weakened condition due to diphtheria toxin, it's not likely that she would have lived for over a year with a chronic infection.

True.  However, if she was in early pregnancy at the time she had diphtheria, could it have affected the baby?  and if not, could it affect her ability to carry a child later?

But if the baby was born in August 1889, and the diptheria was in spring of 1888, she wouldn't have been in early pregnancy while she was sick. If the baby was born in August, then the earliest she'd have gotten pregnant would have been during the range of November 1888 - January 1889. And the diptheria would have been, at the latest, May or June of 1888.

The Wikipedia article on Almanzo attributes his temporary paralysis to a complication of diptheria...I suppose it's possible that it affected his ability to...er...engage in marital activity? That could explain why Laura never had more children after the son. No way to know, of course, but it's a possibility.