Author Topic: Rude to Impose Morality on Co-Workers  (Read 8083 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BeagleMommy

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3194
Re: Rude to Impose Morality on Co-Workers
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2013, 02:09:24 PM »
LadyKnight, I can only tell you that you should check your university's campus-wide policies.

I work for a small, religious, liberal arts college.  We are a dry campus.  No alcohol is served on campus for any affair.  Off campus parties are not dictated by the university supervisors and/or board of directors.  If this supervisor finds alcohol/gambling abhorent to her moral code then she needs to make that know for on campus[b parties.

If there is no policy about the presence of alcohol for on campus events she can ask people not to bring alcohol/gambling, but they don't have to comply.

Sophia

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 11785
  • xi
Re: Rude to Impose Morality on Co-Workers
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2013, 02:49:54 PM »
I am surprised no one mentioned shock that the party was "cancelled for the next two years."    That seems like the hallmark of a snit-fit. 

Although, it will make it easier for everyone to get together for the same purpose but maybe at lunch and off-campus.  Not inviting Director, of course. 
Even if I hadn't brought alcohol or lottery tickets this year, I would be certain to bring one of them to the next unofficial one. 

onyonryngs

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 362
Re: Rude to Impose Morality on Co-Workers
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2013, 02:50:44 PM »
The director is a wildcard and has very specific ideas about what is acceptable. Alcohol, gambling, tobacco, anything suggestive are not allowed. Very strict religious rules are the primary reason. My only issue is when she imposes her beliefs on others and prohibits her staff from socializing after hours off property.

How can she do that?  It's not even enforceable.

Cat-Fu

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 523
  • My cat is a ninja
Re: Rude to Impose Morality on Co-Workers
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2013, 02:58:16 PM »
The director is a wildcard and has very specific ideas about what is acceptable. Alcohol, gambling, tobacco, anything suggestive are not allowed. Very strict religious rules are the primary reason. My only issue is when she imposes her beliefs on others and prohibits her staff from socializing after hours off property.

How can she do that?  It's not even enforceable.

Indeed, that seems like the makings of a mutiny! (And probably further snit-fits, as Sophia aptly named them!)

I would check in with HR regarding the socializing rules and time logs and other strange rules.
“Poetry is a sword of lightning, ever unsheathed, which consumes the scabbard that would contain it.” PBS

wheeitsme

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4007
Re: Rude to Impose Morality on Co-Workers
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2013, 03:05:30 PM »
I think that the canceling for the next 2 years is out of line.

But having worked for 2 different state universities for the last 11 years, the alcohol is a touchy subject.  At both places there were "statements" by the University President outlining a stand on alcohol and drugs.  There are also policies on when and where alcohol can be served.  Having alcohol at a departmental party as random gifts, even if it was after hours, would be frowned upon.  Risk Management for the universities would have been appalled.  Could you theoretically have had a party with alcohol gifts at my universities?  Possibly.  But it could not have been considered a "departmental party" and steps would be needed to make sure that the Universities were in no way involved and had no liability, and it absolutely could not be on university property. For the university it was a liability issue, not a morality one.

magicdomino

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4737
Re: Rude to Impose Morality on Co-Workers
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2013, 03:56:12 PM »
Interesting.  General Services Administration forbids alcohol on federal government property, but we have always interpreted that as consuming alcohol.  That's why our division Christmas party is held at a sports bar each year.  I've received bottles of wine from supervisors and branch chiefs for various occasions, and booze is always very popular at our Dirty Santa exchange, especially since we had to cut out girly gifts like candles and fancy soap (The boys kept getting stuck with them, and now they won't play with us.)  It's not like we keep beer in the fridge all year long.

Dr. F.

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 919
Re: Rude to Impose Morality on Co-Workers
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2013, 08:48:22 PM »
I can relate to the OP to some extent. My Former Horrible Boss (FHB) at one point denied a raise to an entire class of people because she overheard one member of said class discussing a purchase in the breakroom (which was next-door to her office) which she disapproved of. In this case, it wasn't morality per se, but rather that she considered this person extravagant, and thus obviously, "[said class of person] don't need a raise, as they have all the money they need, since they can buy [extravagant object]."

In FHB's case, it came from a complete lack of understanding of or respect for any form of boundaries. I spoke to her, and others did as well, about how inappropriate the above decision was, but she never understood what the issue might be. FHB had no issues making the kind of decrees described. Yes, she would declare what was appropriate outside of work hours, and feel free to denigrate someone professionally if they didn't meet her expectations of how to behave outside of work. She did this to me routinely. I wasn't as fit as she thought appropriate, so obviously, I am a lazy, useless person.

If FHB is any guide, the supervisor in this case won't ever "get it." You will have to talk to the supervisor's superiors to get boundaries enforced from above, as they won't ever come from the superior him/herself.

ladyknight1

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 7770
  • Operating the logic hammer since 1987.
Re: Rude to Impose Morality on Co-Workers
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2013, 08:58:05 PM »
Yes, Dr. F, this is the same type of personality. I am ever so grateful not to work for her, and I know many of her former employees who are glad to be away from her.

Yvaine

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 8941
Re: Rude to Impose Morality on Co-Workers
« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2013, 09:18:29 PM »
I think that the canceling for the next 2 years is out of line.

But having worked for 2 different state universities for the last 11 years, the alcohol is a touchy subject.  At both places there were "statements" by the University President outlining a stand on alcohol and drugs.  There are also policies on when and where alcohol can be served.  Having alcohol at a departmental party as random gifts, even if it was after hours, would be frowned upon.  Risk Management for the universities would have been appalled.  Could you theoretically have had a party with alcohol gifts at my universities?  Possibly.  But it could not have been considered a "departmental party" and steps would be needed to make sure that the Universities were in no way involved and had no liability, and it absolutely could not be on university property. For the university it was a liability issue, not a morality one.

Per someone else familiar with the workplace in question:
As a recent graduate of LadyKnight's employer - let me assure you that there is NO issue with the presence of alcohol on campus (unless it is illegally in the possession of under-21-year-old students.)

There are certainly schools where these gifts would be a problem, and at those schools, there is already a policy in place governing these types of items.

I see no reason to assume that the OP and the subsequent poster are wrong about the policies at their own workplace and alma mater respectively. This is a school where there is no policy against adults over 21 possessing alcohol. Nor was it set out as a rule for the gift exchange. One person just unilaterally threw a fit and tried to slap a rule on retroactively (as well as being a killjoy for future years by cancelling the party entirely rather than setting rules if she wanted them).

wheeitsme

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4007
Re: Rude to Impose Morality on Co-Workers
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2013, 09:49:14 PM »
I think that the canceling for the next 2 years is out of line.

But having worked for 2 different state universities for the last 11 years, the alcohol is a touchy subject.  At both places there were "statements" by the University President outlining a stand on alcohol and drugs.  There are also policies on when and where alcohol can be served.  Having alcohol at a departmental party as random gifts, even if it was after hours, would be frowned upon.  Risk Management for the universities would have been appalled.  Could you theoretically have had a party with alcohol gifts at my universities?  Possibly.  But it could not have been considered a "departmental party" and steps would be needed to make sure that the Universities were in no way involved and had no liability, and it absolutely could not be on university property. For the university it was a liability issue, not a morality one.

Per someone else familiar with the workplace in question:
As a recent graduate of LadyKnight's employer - let me assure you that there is NO issue with the presence of alcohol on campus (unless it is illegally in the possession of under-21-year-old students.)

There are certainly schools where these gifts would be a problem, and at those schools, there is already a policy in place governing these types of items.

I see no reason to assume that the OP and the subsequent poster are wrong about the policies at their own workplace and alma mater respectively. This is a school where there is no policy against adults over 21 possessing alcohol. Nor was it set out as a rule for the gift exchange. One person just unilaterally threw a fit and tried to slap a rule on retroactively (as well as being a killjoy for future years by cancelling the party entirely rather than setting rules if she wanted them).

You can possess alcohol at the Universities I worked for.  At one, I had several in a locked storage cabinet that were bought by the division for the New Graduate Students Reception (for new graduate students, not for new graduates).  But we had to get permission from the University to have it and serve it at that particular time for that particular reason.  And we had to notify police services about the where and when.  If anyone had gotten hurt after drinking our alcohol, they could have sued the school.  The event was in a meeting room, and after hours, but the liability existed.  You and some friends meet at someplace away from the university and have a few drinks as friends, it can't necessarily be traced back to he university.  But a departmental holiday party on university property, even after hours, and the school is more liable.  It's the way Risk Management thinks  ;)

Venus193

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 15937
  • Backstage passes are wonderful things!
Re: Rude to Impose Morality on Co-Workers
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2013, 09:51:58 PM »
I can relate to the OP to some extent. My Former Horrible Boss (FHB) at one point denied a raise to an entire class of people because she overheard one member of said class discussing a purchase in the breakroom (which was next-door to her office) which she disapproved of. In this case, it wasn't morality per se, but rather that she considered this person extravagant, and thus obviously, "[said class of person] don't need a raise, as they have all the money they need, since they can buy [extravagant object]."

In FHB's case, it came from a complete lack of understanding of or respect for any form of boundaries. I spoke to her, and others did as well, about how inappropriate the above decision was, but she never understood what the issue might be. FHB had no issues making the kind of decrees described. Yes, she would declare what was appropriate outside of work hours, and feel free to denigrate someone professionally if they didn't meet her expectations of how to behave outside of work. She did this to me routinely. I wasn't as fit as she thought appropriate, so obviously, I am a lazy, useless person.

If FHB is any guide, the supervisor in this case won't ever "get it." You will have to talk to the supervisor's superiors to get boundaries enforced from above, as they won't ever come from the superior him/herself.

When I was active in the SCA I heard about someone who never gave her work phone number out to other members because she worked for such a conservative company she kept all personal information strictly to herself.

Twik

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 28648
Re: Rude to Impose Morality on Co-Workers
« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2013, 12:45:15 PM »
THere may, indeed, be policies regarding alcohol and/or gambling related items on campus. If the employer provides the venue for the party, they can, indeed, set the rules.

In that case, you should have been made aware of such rules in advance. Otherwise, if it is merely that the supervisor disapproves of those, she was wrong to throw a "well, you should have KNOWN!" fit after the fact.
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

greencat

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2558
Re: Rude to Impose Morality on Co-Workers
« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2013, 02:40:22 PM »
As LadyKnight and I have both said, there aren't rules regarding actual alcohol consumption on campus, other than the applicable local laws regarding sale times and the ages of the consumers - much less the presence of unopened bottles of alcohol in a gift exchange.  There are actually times when you aren't even violating consumption-in-public laws drinking it openly outdoors on campus. 

Gambling is prohibited on campus (at least for students,) however, gambling is, per an official policy document, only considered playing an unlawful game of chance.  Under our state law, many forms of gambling are illegal, so by default, no employee should be engaging in them on campus anyway.  Our state lottery is perfectly legal and therefore not considered gambling under the university policy.

The director's objections are not, in this case, a matter of official university policy.  I personally consider her reaction to be quite outrageous - while she may have the authority to ban the possession of any random items during office hours, she does not have the authority to ban the possession of them after hours, nor was she in the right to preemptively cancel future parties.

mrkitty

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 769
Re: Rude to Impose Morality on Co-Workers
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2013, 02:51:57 PM »
It sounds like there is no policy (or other) reason not to have the kind of party/gift exchange described, but rather that the director was imposing her own moral code on the behavior of subordinates in an inappropriate way, and furthermore, was crossing several privacy boundaries in the process. She sounds unprofessional to me based on this and other behaviors of hers that were mentioned. I don't know for sure, but the employees might want to get together and raise the issue with the school's HR department (or whatever administrative sector would have oversight). Meanwhile, I guess it's a good idea to have a private party off campus without the director. That way, everyone can have the party they like and she can say nothing, if the party is not affiliated with the university.
Learn from past. Live in the present. Hope for the future.

Thipu1

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6859
Re: Rude to Impose Morality on Co-Workers
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2013, 05:32:12 PM »
In places where I've worked, it was not unusual to ban alcohol at work-sponsored events.  That made sense for the comfort and well-being of all.

  Gambling was also forbidden at work. This was to discourage things like a Super Bowl or Kentucky Derby Pool taking up work time and resources. This also made perfect sense. 

The situation described is a bit different.  Sealed bottles of alcohol and lottery tickets were given as gifts.  I doubt sincerely that the bottles were cracked open at the gathering and an orgy of guzzling and scratching of tickets ensued.