Author Topic: Visiting Dog Outranks Resident Dog? (Warning: Long)  (Read 3971 times)

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CrochetFanatic

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Visiting Dog Outranks Resident Dog? (Warning: Long)
« on: January 02, 2013, 11:34:52 AM »
This actually happened three or so years ago, and it still bothers me when I think about it.  What do you guys think?

B/G:  Our Boxer, Daisy, got a mild case of kennel cough at the dog park, and was on medication for it.  She had been taking it for four days, had been kept inside the whole time, and was going a bit stir-crazy.  One of my uncles (not the one I've been posting about here, but one on my dad's side of the family) lives upstate with my aunt, and my parents moved into Aunt and Uncle's old house next-door to my grandfather years ago.  (Aunt and Uncle pulled a fast one on my dad with the house, not telling him or my mom about the multitude of repairs that it needed, and even though it was sold "As-is" they took the good ceiling fans upstate with them and replaced them with crappy ones that wobbled and creaked as they spun.  My parents were later told that they paid too much for the house, but my dad said to just let it go.  This has no bearing on the story at all, but it was the first "weird" thing that they did, and even though my mother has never confronted them about it, she's never forgiven them for it either.  I mention this because it might be one reason why we react the way we do to some of the things they say or do.)  Uncle and Aunt had an old dog at the time.  End B/G.

Four days into Daisy's medication, she was doing much better and was getting into things.  My grandfather was having a family gathering that summer.  Nothing huge, just a barbecue with hotdogs and burgers.  We thought it would be nice for Daisy to get out for a couple minutes and see what the commotion next-door was, so we took her out on her leash and harness and walked her over.  (I know, I know...The dog had kennel cough, she was sick, but the she was no longer acting sick.  Quite the opposite, she was bouncing off the walls, and we could hear her barking inside.  We live near woods, so no neighbors were disturbed by the noise, but I didn't think all that barking was good for her throat while she was sick.  Our thinking was that she would quiet down when she had satisfied her curiosity, and we had no intention of keeping her outside for more than a few minutes.)

We were two thirds of the way across the lawn when we realized that my uncle's dog, which had been inside my grandfather's house (we thought they had boarded him before driving down), was out in the yard on a chain where he could sit for the party and be in the thick of the action, lucky him.  >:(  Before we could say anything or begin to bring Daisy back, my aunt said something I couldn't hear, and my uncle pointed at us and shook his head.  "You'll have to take her back.  We don't want her around Duke, she has kennel cough." 

Fair enough.  A valid complaint.  Just one problem...Daisy lives here.  They didn't want to board their dog when they came down because he was old, but they didn't want to leave him inside the house either because "hearing the party outside was stressful for him".  Uh...yeah?  Exactly my point.  My dad took their side (I think he just doesn't want to make waves, being the middle son), my mother was annoyed, but I quietly fumed and didn't say a word to either Aunt or Uncle while they were there.  This wasn't hard to accomplish, because the informal gathering was big, and I simply made myself busy where they weren't sitting/standing.  Meanwhile, Daisy barked herself hoarse in the house and was exhausted for two days afterwards even with my brother and I making frequent trips to the house to calm her.

Now, they had a point that time.  Fast-forward two years, and there is another family barbecue.  Daisy, who did not have kennel cough this time around (or any other kind of disease), was again brought out of the house on her leash and harness.  She's much calmer than she was that first year, so she was very well-behaved.  Uncle and Aunt had their dog with them again, and once again they told us that they didn't want her over there, this time because her presence was "upsetting Duke".  This time we stood our ground, and Daisy stayed.  Well, my mom and I stood our ground, but my dad had made it clear beforehand that he was staying out of it, and that if my mother had a gripe she could speak up.  Which she did, nicely, and while Aunt and Uncle didn't look amused they couldn't come up with a good argument, and let it be.  Duke, far from being upset, seemed very smitten by Daisy, who eventually became rather annoyed with him and "led" us to the other end of the yard.  ;D  Aunt and Uncle loosened up a bit when they saw that the two dogs got along, and "Grandpa Duke" wasn't going to expire with fright (both are/were big dogs, but he was about 13 at the time and Daisy was about 3).  ;D Their "poor old dog" wasn't bothered by her presence in the least, and he only just passed away this November (which we were sorry to hear).

Some might argue that we were inconsiderate for not accommodating family here, but I disagree.  I think that they are the inconsiderate ones (and snowflakey, to boot) for trying to oust our dog from her own yard and my grandfather's yard just because they used to live here.  Kennel cough notwithstanding, because the second time they tried this stunt Daisy was fit as a fiddle. 

So...my etiquette question is this.  Should visiting family board their pets/find other accommodations for them, or do they have the right to say, "Put your dog away so that our dog, who does not live here, can be with his family."?  And even with my dad backing them up to keep the peace, is there something that I or my mother can say to make it clear that what they are doing is wrong?  If it actually is wrong.  I'm not sure if I'm right, or if no one is right or wrong, and it's just a difference of opinion... 

In time, they'll probably get a new puppy; they've always had a dog.  I worry that they might find some reason why they can't board him/her, and why Daisy should stay away, and I was wondering if it would be acceptable to just look bewildered and say, "Daisy lives here."

Just for the record, Daisy destroys when she's agitated, so this would mean hours in her crate.

RingTailedLemur

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Re: Visiting Dog Outranks Resident Dog? (Warning: Long)
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2013, 11:44:08 AM »
I might be confused, but I think you were in the wrong.

Daisy wasnt the resident dog because she lives in your house, and your uncle's dog was staying in your grandparents' house.  I don't think you have the right to insist your dog leave your house and chuck out a dog from a different house.

Shoo

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Re: Visiting Dog Outranks Resident Dog? (Warning: Long)
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2013, 11:47:50 AM »
I'm confused too.

Your dog lives at YOUR house, but you were actually visiting the house next door, is that correct?  So your dog was also a visitor. 

I think you were wrong here.  Sorry.

sevenday

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Re: Visiting Dog Outranks Resident Dog? (Warning: Long)
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2013, 11:48:32 AM »
First time, you should not have taken the dog over.  Kennel cough has a relatively long infectious period - think weeks, not days.  Even dogs who have been inoculated for them - and a dog that by your description was never boarded probably never got the vaccination for it (any good boarder will require it) - can be affected.  So they had a valid point in not bringing your dog over.  Although you could have put your dog on a chain outside your back door at that point and simply stayed over more on that side so the dog could see you and get pats; it's likely their dog had some exposure to the disease even though the two dogs did not directly meet, if they both used "open" yards.   That one's on you.

The second time, however... Yeah, I can see your irritation.  If another dog is allowed outside, yours should have some reasonable expectation of being able to be outside as well.  "Uncle, don't you remember what happened last time? Daisy barked so much it was hard to enjoy the party at all and made herself even sicker afterward.  If you're worried about the two dogs fighting, we'll do a quick introduction and if there's any trouble we'll take Daisy back home."  And then intro on leashes/chains to see if they get along.  If they do, I don't see a problem. 

The owner of the house does get final veto of whether someone, whether person or animal, visits.  I do think the line blurs when it comes to outdoor spaces and how any resident animals are expected to behave.  Their dog on a chain? Yours ought to be able to come on a leash/chain if they get along.  It's a bit different than an enclosed space with a resident dog that is known to be territorial (and thus may be problematic if a strange dog enters). It's not a black/white situation, and I'm sure their opinions of the PEOPLE colored their decision on whether your dog was able to visit or not.

And Lemur - I don't think the OP expected the OTHER dog to leave, just that theirs should have a fair chance at being able to attend as long as the other dog got to.

CrochetFanatic

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Re: Visiting Dog Outranks Resident Dog? (Warning: Long)
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2013, 11:51:43 AM »
I might be confused, but I think you were in the wrong.

Daisy wasnt the resident dog because she lives in your house, and your uncle's dog was staying in your grandparents' house.  I don't think you have the right to insist your dog leave your house and chuck out a dog from a different house.

Sorry, I might not have been clear.  They didn't want her outside at all, be it in her own yard or my grandfather's.  The two yards don't have a fence between them, and during family gatherings the yards are basically treated as one yard, with a lot of back-and-forth for outside games and such.  Daisy is resident in that she lives here instead of upstate.  We weren't trying to chuck him, and were fine with him being there.  What we (my mom and I, at least) weren't fine with was being told what we should do with our dog when we wouldn't have presumed to tell them what we thought they should do with theirs.

It's quite possible that we were wrong, however we felt about it.  That's why I asked.  :)

Shoo

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Re: Visiting Dog Outranks Resident Dog? (Warning: Long)
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2013, 11:53:12 AM »
I might be confused, but I think you were in the wrong.

Daisy wasnt the resident dog because she lives in your house, and your uncle's dog was staying in your grandparents' house.  I don't think you have the right to insist your dog leave your house and chuck out a dog from a different house.

Sorry, I might not have been clear.  They didn't want her outside at all, be it in her own yard or my grandfather's.  The two yards don't have a fence between them, and during family gatherings the yards are basically treated as one yard, with a lot of back-and-forth for outside games and such.  Daisy is resident in that she lives here instead of upstate.  We weren't trying to chuck him, and were fine with him being there.  What we (my mom and I, at least) weren't fine with was being told what we should do with our dog when we wouldn't have presumed to tell them what we thought they should do with theirs.

It's quite possible that we were wrong, however we felt about it.  That's why I asked.  :)

That really changes things.  Your dog was perfectly fine being in your own back yard.  Your aunt and uncle had no right to insist he be kept inside, when their dog was allowed to be outside.  Glad your mom stuck up for you.

CrochetFanatic

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Re: Visiting Dog Outranks Resident Dog? (Warning: Long)
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2013, 11:56:16 AM »
First time, you should not have taken the dog over.  Kennel cough has a relatively long infectious period - think weeks, not days.  Even dogs who have been inoculated for them - and a dog that by your description was never boarded probably never got the vaccination for it (any good boarder will require it) - can be affected.  So they had a valid point in not bringing your dog over.  Although you could have put your dog on a chain outside your back door at that point and simply stayed over more on that side so the dog could see you and get pats; it's likely their dog had some exposure to the disease even though the two dogs did not directly meet, if they both used "open" yards.   That one's on you.

The second time, however... Yeah, I can see your irritation.  If another dog is allowed outside, yours should have some reasonable expectation of being able to be outside as well.  "Uncle, don't you remember what happened last time? Daisy barked so much it was hard to enjoy the party at all and made herself even sicker afterward.  If you're worried about the two dogs fighting, we'll do a quick introduction and if there's any trouble we'll take Daisy back home."  And then intro on leashes/chains to see if they get along.  If they do, I don't see a problem. 

The owner of the house does get final veto of whether someone, whether person or animal, visits.  I do think the line blurs when it comes to outdoor spaces and how any resident animals are expected to behave.  Their dog on a chain? Yours ought to be able to come on a leash/chain if they get along.  It's a bit different than an enclosed space with a resident dog that is known to be territorial (and thus may be problematic if a strange dog enters). It's not a black/white situation, and I'm sure their opinions of the PEOPLE colored their decision on whether your dog was able to visit or not.

And Lemur - I don't think the OP expected the OTHER dog to leave, just that theirs should have a fair chance at being able to attend as long as the other dog got to.

Well, we didn't actually know he was there until we were two thirds of the way over and saw through the crowd.  We wouldn't have brought her out if we had known. 

My grandfather didn't care one way or the other if both Daisy and Duke were there.

snowdragon

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Re: Visiting Dog Outranks Resident Dog? (Warning: Long)
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2013, 12:35:08 PM »
I think I would have kept my dog in my yard for the first year.  No matter what was happening, merely cause she was sick. Second year, if dogs are welcome - dogs are welcome and the "guests" does not get to over rule the resident,  especially in her own yard.
  Aunt and Uncle would have been told that they can board Duke, if they didn't want Dike dealing with Daisy.

NyaChan

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Re: Visiting Dog Outranks Resident Dog? (Warning: Long)
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2013, 12:41:40 PM »
I think I would have kept my dog in my yard for the first year.  No matter what was happening, merely cause she was sick. Second year, if dogs are welcome - dogs are welcome and the "guests" does not get to over rule the resident,  especially in her own yard.
  Aunt and Uncle would have been told that they can board Duke, if they didn't want Dike dealing with Daisy.

This.  I think you were wrong the first year.  If Daisy was getting upset, you could have taken her for a short jaunt outside in the front of the house, away from the party to soothe her from time to time.  Your dog was sick though, and they had every right to protect their own from it.  The second year, I think you were completely right to hold your ground.  There was no reason whatsoever that Daisy should be pushed out in favor of a visiting dog that could have been somewhere else, especially when there had been no prior incident where the two dogs didn't get along.

CrochetFanatic

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Re: Visiting Dog Outranks Resident Dog? (Warning: Long)
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2013, 01:37:24 PM »
I think I would have kept my dog in my yard for the first year.  No matter what was happening, merely cause she was sick. Second year, if dogs are welcome - dogs are welcome and the "guests" does not get to over rule the resident,  especially in her own yard.
  Aunt and Uncle would have been told that they can board Duke, if they didn't want Dike dealing with Daisy.

This.  I think you were wrong the first year.  If Daisy was getting upset, you could have taken her for a short jaunt outside in the front of the house, away from the party to soothe her from time to time.  Your dog was sick though, and they had every right to protect their own from it.  The second year, I think you were completely right to hold your ground.  There was no reason whatsoever that Daisy should be pushed out in favor of a visiting dog that could have been somewhere else, especially when there had been no prior incident where the two dogs didn't get along.

That's true, they did have every right to protect Duke from it.  They knew Daisy had kennel cough and brought him anyway, which sort of irked me, but I guess that is beside the point.  :-\ We didn't know he was there, and taking her for a minute or two to reassure her that these people were welcome seemed like a good idea at the time.  In retrospect, I do agree with you on these points.

This, the issue with the house, and maybe two other incidents are all the real trouble we've had with them, so I guess I shouldn't complain.  They really are good people, who we don't always see eye-to-eye with.

wheeitsme

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Re: Visiting Dog Outranks Resident Dog? (Warning: Long)
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2013, 02:14:39 PM »
I think everyone agrees on the first event.  Our 18 month old Lab recently had an upper respiratory infection.  The Vet gave her antibiotics and told us we had to keep her away from other dogs for at least a week (we caught the infection early).  Poor thing did not understand why she could go on walks, the dog park, or even play with the neighborhood dogs in the front yard like she usually did. 

As for the second event, I think you handled it right.  Your dog does not need to leave your yard because of a guest dog.  And the hosts (your parents) get to decide what animals are welcome in their yard.  Not the guests.  And your dog had the standing and initial invitation to the yard.

ettiquit

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Re: Visiting Dog Outranks Resident Dog? (Warning: Long)
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2013, 02:20:45 PM »
I don't think anyone's really to blame for the first incident.  You wouldn't have taken Daisy over if you knew Duke was there.  Your aunt and uncle were right to tell you that Daisy needed to leave, although it sounds as though they were bit brusk about it.  Regardless, it's a toss up.

Your aunt and uncle were rude in the second incident - you were fine.

Mental Magpie

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Re: Visiting Dog Outranks Resident Dog? (Warning: Long)
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2013, 02:42:00 PM »
I don't think anyone's really to blame for the first incident.  You wouldn't have taken Daisy over if you knew Duke was there.  Your aunt and uncle were right to tell you that Daisy needed to leave, although it sounds as though they were bit brusk about it.  Regardless, it's a toss up.

Your aunt and uncle were rude in the second incident - you were fine.

This.
The problem with choosing the lesser of two evils is that you're still choosing evil.

figee

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Re: Visiting Dog Outranks Resident Dog? (Warning: Long)
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2013, 05:01:02 PM »
I actually think that you were wrong in both instances and that I would have reacted the same as your uncle.  The first instance is clear cut, and might have affected the second.  If I had my dogs somewhere with me that I was allowed to have them (such as staying at someone's house) and someone tried to bring a strange (to my dogs) dog into contact with them who also had kennel cough, and then was angry, fuming and resentful (which is clear from your post) when asked to leave, I would assume that they had no consideration for the health and wellbeing of their dog or my own.  If the dog was sick and upset and destructive, she should be crated or someone stay with her.  Given that, the second year, if the same people tried to bring the same dog into a gathering, I would be less than impressed, especially if my dog was elderly, because they had shown the previous year a disregard for basic health and safety provisions.  And assurances that the dog was healthy this time around would be treated with some scepticism.

Whether my dogs get boarded or not depends on whether I am able to bring my dog along or not.  Given your aunt and uncle's dog was there, presumably he was allowed to be there, and so it's a moot point about to board or not to board.  As for the future, maybe think about either fencing the yards or building a dog run.

Mental Magpie

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Re: Visiting Dog Outranks Resident Dog? (Warning: Long)
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2013, 08:36:52 PM »
I actually think that you were wrong in both instances and that I would have reacted the same as your uncle.  The first instance is clear cut, and might have affected the second.  If I had my dogs somewhere with me that I was allowed to have them (such as staying at someone's house) and someone tried to bring a strange (to my dogs) dog into contact with them who also had kennel cough, and then was angry, fuming and resentful (which is clear from your post) when asked to leave, I would assume that they had no consideration for the health and wellbeing of their dog or my own.  If the dog was sick and upset and destructive, she should be crated or someone stay with her.  Given that, the second year, if the same people tried to bring the same dog into a gathering, I would be less than impressed, especially if my dog was elderly, because they had shown the previous year a disregard for basic health and safety provisions.  And assurances that the dog was healthy this time around would be treated with some scepticism.

Whether my dogs get boarded or not depends on whether I am able to bring my dog along or not.  Given your aunt and uncle's dog was there, presumably he was allowed to be there, and so it's a moot point about to board or not to board.  As for the future, maybe think about either fencing the yards or building a dog run.

Except the OP didn't know the first time that uncle's dig was there until she got over there with her dog. It wasn't blatant disregard for uncle's dog, it was ignorance that the dog was even there.

Besides, OP may be irritated in this post, but that doesn't mean she was in person. She also admits that uncle was right in the first case.  In the second case, OP's dog is also allowed to be there. The question is thus which dog gets precedence?
The problem with choosing the lesser of two evils is that you're still choosing evil.