Author Topic: I have not the words...UPDATE: Post #132  (Read 14573 times)

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onyonryngs

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Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2013, 11:15:37 AM »
It's a know your audience thing.  Some kids aren't allowed to accept Valentine's cards either.  It should be up to the parent to decide if their kid can accept the gift.  It was a sweet thought, but I just don't think that religious observances have a place in public school - that's why people are in public school and not a parochial school.

yokozbornak

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Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2013, 11:21:44 AM »
It's a know your audience thing.  Some kids aren't allowed to accept Valentine's cards either.  It should be up to the parent to decide if their kid can accept the gift.  It was a sweet thought, but I just don't think that religious observances have a place in public school - that's why people are in public school and not a parochial school.

Well, the family in questions DOES observe Christmas.  They are not offended because the OP is giving a Christmas gift, they are offended because she celebrates it "wrong." 

Also, I think the discussion about religious observances at school is getting into territory that we can't discuss on E-Hell.

Jaelle

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Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2013, 11:22:15 AM »
But this wasn't a religious observation! Not at all. It was a snowflake — for winter break, quite logical.

I wonder, though, if this isn't backward. If the parents were upset because it wasn't religious? The note said they don't choose to celebrate because of "the commercialization of the birth of Christ." Perhaps they were offended by the "happy holidays" and secular nature.

(Like I had people snap at me one year for using "happy holidays" cards instead of "Merry Christmas" ones  ... when I was sending them to Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan and nonobservant friends.   ::))

Either way, OP, I'm sorry for your daughter. It was a sweet gesture.
“She was already learning that if you ignore the rules people will, half the time, quietly rewrite them so that they don't apply to you.”
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peaches

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Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2013, 11:25:36 AM »
Your DD is a very thoughtful person. I applaud her for that. :)

Before giving anything away at school, I'd consult with the teacher first. I wouldn't just assume it's ok. Some schools have rules about such things.



VltGrantham

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Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2013, 11:25:59 AM »
Quote
Hope your sweet DD was not upset by such silliness.

To be honest, I haven't told her yet.  She brought the note home in a sealed envelope.  I read it and did not tell her.

It does pose something of a conundrum for us as we were already planning Valentine's Day stuff.  (I know, I'm crazy, but I hate waiting until last minute.)

We had planned on making MP3 players out of boxes of crayons and Hershey's Kisses for earbuds.  (Here's a link, if you're interested - http://ewspider.wordpress.com/2011/02/11/that-candy-box-mp3-player-thingy-for-valentines-day/).

Now, do I make one for all the classmates excluding one?  That seems hurtful.  Or brave the parents' wrath?  Or what?

Quote
It's a know your audience thing.  Some kids aren't allowed to accept Valentine's cards either.  It should be up to the parent to decide if their kid can accept the gift.  It was a sweet thought, but I just don't think that religious observances have a place in public school - that's why people are in public school and not a parochial school.

In this case, I'd be interested in finding out if the school and/or teacher received a note as well.  All of the children came home with huge holiday bags stamped with Santa Claus and stuffed with Christmas treats (holiday themed coloring books, Christmas candy, small toys, etc).  I think we went out of our way to make the gift as seasonal as possible without tying it to any particular religion.  The Christmas tree has pagan origins, a snowflake is not specific to any religion, and the colors chosen were seasonal for winter as well.  It's not like we handed out tiny creches.

ETA:  I should also mention that we were solicited for contributions to these bags well before the winter break--so I did not see anything wrong in providing an additional small gift from DD.  And I did make sure she gifted everyone so that no one would feel left out.

« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 11:27:44 AM by VltGrantham »

RebeccainGA

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Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2013, 11:27:52 AM »
Truly appropriate gift for such SS parents!

Even my most anti-Christmas, militant (in their words) Pagan friends, who have a Yule Tree and don't allow Santa in the house wouldn't be offended by this. Nor would my Adventist HS friend (who wasn't allowed to celebrate birthdays or holidays). These people were actively looking to be offended. For pete's sake, it's WINTER, and it was a SNOWFLAKE!

You did fine. They have the issue.

laceandbits

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Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2013, 11:37:45 AM »
"It was a sweet thought, but I just don't think that religious observances have a place in public school - that's why people are in public school and not a parochial school."

But the OP made it quite clear that they carefully chose a not-religious symbol and the accompanying card said happy winter break.  As far as I know the only people who celebrate winter breaks are Druids and they prefer mistletoe to snowflakes.  This is just parents making a point for the sake of it, and this unpleasantness is a good example of why I find religion is often used to cause nearly as many problems as it solves.  Where is love and tolerance in the ungracious way in which this gift was received.

"Some kids aren't allowed to accept Valentine's cards either." 
Now, this one I do find strange.  Valentine's cards are for *secret* admirers to send, not for children to exchange.  The not-knowing-who-it's-from is the whole point of them. 

TylerBelle

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Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2013, 11:42:03 AM »
They didn't give the ornament back, yet they claimed to be offended by receiving it? How does that work? I agree with the pps who said these folks were looking to be offended. Myself as celebrating Christmas to be of Jesus' birth, I gotta say if I had a child, I would be quite touched for him/her to receive such a gift. Snowflakes are beautiful.

Also I'd like to echo how considerate your DD is, and I hope she won't let these negative instances taint her thoughtfulness.
Always be on the lookout for wonder. --E.B. White

BeagleMommy

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Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2013, 11:43:36 AM »
DH and I take special pains to make sure we offer a holiday card that meets the needs of all of his clients.  His clients are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Non Denominational and Atheist.  We always choose a card that says "Happy Holidays" and send a homemade "gift card" giving each client 15% off any one service.

It seems like this parent was either looking for a reason to be offended or maybe felt embarrassed that they gave nothing to the class (can't say for sure, obviously, but I've had to deal with this before).

Queen of Clubs

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Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2013, 11:51:17 AM »
But this wasn't a religious observation! Not at all. It was a snowflake — for winter break, quite logical.

I wonder, though, if this isn't backward. If the parents were upset because it wasn't religious? The note said they don't choose to celebrate because of "the commercialization of the birth of Christ." Perhaps they were offended by the "happy holidays" and secular nature.

(Like I had people snap at me one year for using "happy holidays" cards instead of "Merry Christmas" ones  ... when I was sending them to Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan and nonobservant friends.   ::))

Either way, OP, I'm sorry for your daughter. It was a sweet gesture.

That was how I read it too - that they're offended that it wasn't a religious-based gift.

I think a snowflake ornament sounds lovely.

Yvaine

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Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2013, 11:52:31 AM »
It does pose something of a conundrum for us as we were already planning Valentine's Day stuff.  (I know, I'm crazy, but I hate waiting until last minute.)

I'd say don't plan out Valentine's stuff until you know what the class guidelines are. I'm in my mid-thirties (so not even from the current wave of more sensitivity) and we had Valentine's card exchanges, but it was pretty structured. You'll want to find out how the teacher plans to handle it before you invest a lot of time or money.

"Some kids aren't allowed to accept Valentine's cards either." 
Now, this one I do find strange.  Valentine's cards are for *secret* admirers to send, not for children to exchange.  The not-knowing-who-it's-from is the whole point of them. 

This may be regional? Kids exchanging little Valentine's cards is really really common where I grew up (Midwest US). They generally come in packages of, oh I don't know, 30 or so? About as many as you'd need to distribute to a grade school class, anyway. They'll usually have Spiderman or Pokemon or something on them. Adult romantic partners do also exchange cards and gifts (though not anonymously) but this is pretty separate from the kiddie observance of the holiday.

Anyway, OP, I'm sorry these parents are nasty. I doubt it was even just directed at you--probably the teacher got a nasty note as well for handing out the bags in the first place, as well as any other kid whose name could be tied to it. I really feel bad that they made their kid give up the stuff and wrote the note to your kid--it seems like they're content to let children suffer all the hurt feelings that stem from the adults' rudeness.

mbbored

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Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2013, 11:53:18 AM »
"It was a sweet thought, but I just don't think that religious observances have a place in public school - that's why people are in public school and not a parochial school."

But the OP made it quite clear that they carefully chose a not-religious symbol and the accompanying card said happy winter break.  As far as I know the only people who celebrate winter breaks are Druids and they prefer mistletoe to snowflakes.  This is just parents making a point for the sake of it, and this unpleasantness is a good example of why I find religion is often used to cause nearly as many problems as it solves.  Where is love and tolerance in the ungracious way in which this gift was received.

"Some kids aren't allowed to accept Valentine's cards either." 
Now, this one I do find strange.  Valentine's cards are for *secret* admirers to send, not for children to exchange.  The not-knowing-who-it's-from is the whole point of them.

A snowflake may not be a religious symbol, but a Christmas ornament is just that: something associated with a particular religion's holiday.

RingTailedLemur

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Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2013, 11:55:46 AM »
"It was a sweet thought, but I just don't think that religious observances have a place in public school - that's why people are in public school and not a parochial school."

But the OP made it quite clear that they carefully chose a not-religious symbol and the accompanying card said happy winter break.  As far as I know the only people who celebrate winter breaks are Druids and they prefer mistletoe to snowflakes.  This is just parents making a point for the sake of it, and this unpleasantness is a good example of why I find religion is often used to cause nearly as many problems as it solves.  Where is love and tolerance in the ungracious way in which this gift was received.

"Some kids aren't allowed to accept Valentine's cards either." 
Now, this one I do find strange.  Valentine's cards are for *secret* admirers to send, not for children to exchange.  The not-knowing-who-it's-from is the whole point of them.

A snowflake may not be a religious symbol, but a Christmas ornament is just that: something associated with a particular religion's holiday.

Who said it was a "Christmas" ornament?

onyonryngs

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Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2013, 12:01:57 PM »
"It was a sweet thought, but I just don't think that religious observances have a place in public school - that's why people are in public school and not a parochial school."

But the OP made it quite clear that they carefully chose a not-religious symbol and the accompanying card said happy winter break.  As far as I know the only people who celebrate winter breaks are Druids and they prefer mistletoe to snowflakes.  This is just parents making a point for the sake of it, and this unpleasantness is a good example of why I find religion is often used to cause nearly as many problems as it solves.  Where is love and tolerance in the ungracious way in which this gift was received.

"Some kids aren't allowed to accept Valentine's cards either." 
Now, this one I do find strange.  Valentine's cards are for *secret* admirers to send, not for children to exchange.  The not-knowing-who-it's-from is the whole point of them.

A snowflake may not be a religious symbol, but a Christmas ornament is just that: something associated with a particular religion's holiday.

Who said it was a "Christmas" ornament?

The OP.  She said it was obviously a Christmas ornament.

This may be regional? Kids exchanging little Valentine's cards is really really common where I grew up (Midwest US). They generally come in packages of, oh I don't know, 30 or so? About as many as you'd need to distribute to a grade school class, anyway. They'll usually have Spiderman or Pokemon or something on them. Adult romantic partners do also exchange cards and gifts (though not anonymously) but this is pretty separate from the kiddie observance of the holiday.

There are some religions that prohibit this.  It's not regional.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 12:05:25 PM by onyonryngs »

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Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2013, 12:02:23 PM »
Is there a possibility that because this additional snowflake gift was sent home the same day as the Santa-stamped gift bag that this parent mistook the whole gift bag as the gift from DD?