Author Topic: I have not the words...UPDATE: Post #132  (Read 14744 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

mj

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 571
Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #75 on: January 03, 2013, 06:01:45 PM »
I am confused, I read the original post as that the teacher sent a note home -- not that the parents sent a note to the OPs daughter. 

OP, can you clarify? 

If my take is true, then I'm not sure where the parents offense is at.  They certainly do have the right to voice a complaint to the school.  The school should handle as they deem fit,  instead of singling out students, it could have been handled in a different way.  Especially now that they do have the information that a student with a different religion is part of the class, the school has everything they need to know without including an audience.

artk2002

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 12946
    • The Delian's Commonwealth
Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #76 on: January 03, 2013, 06:04:48 PM »
I am confused, I read the original post as that the teacher sent a note home -- not that the parents sent a note to the OPs daughter. 

The parents of the other child sent the note, which was given to OP's daughter by the teacher. The teacher was the post-person in this case.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

TootsNYC

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 30648
Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #77 on: January 03, 2013, 06:05:30 PM »
and the teacher, like the OP, probably thought it was a thank-you note!

Rusty

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 161
Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #78 on: January 03, 2013, 06:15:28 PM »
I have friends of many different religious persuasions and it would not occur to me that they would be offended that I celebrate Christmas just as I am not offended by their celebrations. Unfortunately the world has changed and the politically correct now seem to rule the world.  My town (a major city) this year decided it had had enough of the wowsers of the world and decorated the city square beautifully and played christmas carols etc, after a few years of not wanting to "offend". My grandchild's pre-school had a Xmas party after a few years of "no we can't offend anyone".  If you don't like Christmas or don't celebrate it, fine, but don't spoil it for the rest of us, keep your children home. Perhaps if everyone thought about the message of goodwill to all men society might just benefit rather than dragging everyone into some whitewashed melting pot where noone is allowed to celebrate anything at all.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 06:39:01 PM by Rusty »

MOM21SON

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3038
Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #79 on: January 03, 2013, 06:36:24 PM »
When my son was in private school, they did only celebrate the schools beliefs.  However when he went to public school, their "Holiday program" celebrated all holiday beliefs in song.  The sound of 6 years olds singing ANY song is priceless.

If this is in ANY WAY INAPPROPRIATE please let me know anyone.

The Sandy Hook children went back to school today.  Yes, they went to a different school but the school was supposed to have snowflakes everywhere, sent from all over the country.

To me a snowflake is just that.  A decoration.  I do not associate a snowflake with any holiday, just winter.

mrkitty

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 768
Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #80 on: January 03, 2013, 06:38:07 PM »
I have friends of many different religious persuasions and it would not occur to me that they would be offended that I celebrate Christmas just as I am not offended by their celebrations. Unfortunately the world has changed and the politically correct now seem to rule the world.  My town (a major city) this year decided it had had enough of the wowsers of the world and decorated the city square beautifully and played christmas carols etc, after a few years of not wanting to "offend". My grandchild's pre-school had a Xmas party after a few years of "no we can't offend anyone".  If you don't like Christmas or don't celebrate it, fine, but don't spoil it for the rest of us, keep your children home. Perhaps if everyone thought about the message of goodwill to all men society might just benefit rather than dragging everyone into some whitwashed melting pot where noone is allowed to celebrate anything at all.



I so agree with Rusty. Can't POD this enough.

It's so tiring to constantly second-guess everything and wonder if you're causing offense simply by wishing someone well.

I always thought diversity was supposed to be about celebrating different cultures, not suppressing them. What a boring world if we have to pretend we're all the same.

Like some of the other PP's, as a kid we had Christmas parties, valentine's day cards/candy trading (we made envelopes out of construction paper and taped them to our desks and then went around the class delivering valentines treats in all the other envelopes. It was such fun!) and we learned about the holiday traditions of other cultures and non-Christmas celebrating religions.

It's so sad to me that a gesture of kindness, generosity, goodwill and innocent affection could be turned into something ugly. How are we supposed to achieve peaceful co-existence in our society if we either have to pretend we're all the same, or allow our differences to blow up into open hostility because we didn't make the correct guess?

Maybe the answer is to just throw away all religious/cultural traditions and just celebrate Festivus. It sounds like the offended parents of the child who received the snowflake got an early start on the Enumeration of Grievances portion of the tradition. 
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 06:44:39 PM by mrkitty »
Learn from past. Live in the present. Hope for the future.

Coley

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1251
Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #81 on: January 03, 2013, 06:39:36 PM »
I always have loved learning about different religions and different denominations as well, and enjoy when I find someone who is able to discuss their religion, denomination and traditions without trying to convert someone else.  I've learned a lot about the Jewish faith thanks to having a Jewish aunt and uncle.  (funny thing is my uncle is very unobservant, and my aunt that married him jokes that she knows more about traditions than he does, from learning about it from her sister in law)

My oldest is in 6th grade social studies and has been really enjoying learning about other cultures and their religions, such as Judaism and Hinduism, so far, so much so that his favorite subject has gone from math to social studies. :)

... snip ...

I was thinking the same thing about my 6th grader. They are just finishing a unit on world religions. They studied Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, and Christianity. My DS thought it was fascinating. We had some great dinner table talks about similarities and differences between religions. What a wonderful learning opportunity that broadens kids' horizons and allows for inclusion rather than exclusion. We also were able to talk with DS about the importance of being respectful of others' beliefs and values regardless of whether we share their beliefs and values.

P.S. A college friend and her DH are Wiccan and yet Santa visited their home to leave gifts for their 6-year-old DS. From their FB posts, they clearly had a lot of fun playing Santa for him!

Otterpop

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1256
Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #82 on: January 03, 2013, 07:30:15 PM »
Not to mention this was a SNOWFLAKE.  They fall from the sky by the millions every day.  How the parents could say this was a "commercialization" of Christmas is beyond me.  They are a symbol of the one thing about Christmas that's FREE, for Pete's sake!

Mental Magpie

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 5316
  • ...for the dark side looks back.
Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #83 on: January 03, 2013, 07:36:35 PM »
A snowflake with a string through it is not obviously a Christmas decoration, it is simply a snowflake decoration.
The problem with choosing the lesser of two evils is that you're still choosing evil.

MOM21SON

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3038
Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #84 on: January 03, 2013, 07:55:47 PM »
I always have loved learning about different religions and different denominations as well, and enjoy when I find someone who is able to discuss their religion, denomination and traditions without trying to convert someone else.  I've learned a lot about the Jewish faith thanks to having a Jewish aunt and uncle.  (funny thing is my uncle is very unobservant, and my aunt that married him jokes that she knows more about traditions than he does, from learning about it from her sister in law)

My oldest is in 6th grade social studies and has been really enjoying learning about other cultures and their religions, such as Judaism and Hinduism, so far, so much so that his favorite subject has gone from math to social studies. :)

... snip ...

I was thinking the same thing about my 6th grader. They are just finishing a unit on world religions. They studied Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, and Christianity. My DS thought it was fascinating. We had some great dinner table talks about similarities and differences between religions. What a wonderful learning opportunity that broadens kids' horizons and allows for inclusion rather than exclusion. We also were able to talk with DS about the importance of being respectful of others' beliefs and values regardless of whether we share their beliefs and values.

P.S. A college friend and her DH are Wiccan and yet Santa visited their home to leave gifts for their 6-year-old DS. From their FB posts, they clearly had a lot of fun playing Santa for him!

This is what i don't understand.  I am seriously confused by this, something that has been going on for many years.  Either you do Santa, or you don't.  You either celebrate it or not.  Or is it celebrated when it is convenient? 

My Hindu neighbors have started celebrating because "That is what their kids want."  HUH?

Yvaine

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 8906
Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #85 on: January 03, 2013, 08:04:26 PM »
I always have loved learning about different religions and different denominations as well, and enjoy when I find someone who is able to discuss their religion, denomination and traditions without trying to convert someone else.  I've learned a lot about the Jewish faith thanks to having a Jewish aunt and uncle.  (funny thing is my uncle is very unobservant, and my aunt that married him jokes that she knows more about traditions than he does, from learning about it from her sister in law)

My oldest is in 6th grade social studies and has been really enjoying learning about other cultures and their religions, such as Judaism and Hinduism, so far, so much so that his favorite subject has gone from math to social studies. :)

... snip ...

I was thinking the same thing about my 6th grader. They are just finishing a unit on world religions. They studied Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, and Christianity. My DS thought it was fascinating. We had some great dinner table talks about similarities and differences between religions. What a wonderful learning opportunity that broadens kids' horizons and allows for inclusion rather than exclusion. We also were able to talk with DS about the importance of being respectful of others' beliefs and values regardless of whether we share their beliefs and values.

P.S. A college friend and her DH are Wiccan and yet Santa visited their home to leave gifts for their 6-year-old DS. From their FB posts, they clearly had a lot of fun playing Santa for him!

This is what i don't understand.  I am seriously confused by this, something that has been going on for many years.  Either you do Santa, or you don't.  You either celebrate it or not.  Or is it celebrated when it is convenient? 

My Hindu neighbors have started celebrating because "That is what their kids want."  HUH?

What do you mean?

They are Wiccan but have decided to do the Santa tradition for their kids because they think it's fun. Santa has some roots in St. Nicholas, a Christian figure, but also some roots in pagan myths like the Wild Hunt, and at this point is largely a secular figure anyway, defined by things like Coca-Cola advertising and popular TV specials. I don't really see what's confusing. They're doing Santa just the same way as anyone else does Santa.

I'm pagan myself and have always been tempted to do the La Befana tradition for my hypothetical kids instead.  :)

It's quite possible to celebrate a multitude of traditions in order to share them with loved ones. I'm pagan and celebrated the Solstice with my SO. And then celebrated Christmas with my family of origin--I may not be a part of that religion, but I can celebrate the family aspect and the "X-mas" thing WillyNilly talks about and the way themes of birth and renewal and light fit into my own beliefs in sort of an archetypal sense. One year I went to a Diwali celebration--you can say I "celebrated" Diwali that year, even though I don't practice Hinduism. I went to bond with some friends and had some of the best food I've ever eaten in my life. There's no religion police and no rule against enjoying a holiday even if you love it because you love the people celebrating it around you rather than because you practice that religion.

I'm not going to just turn my nose up at my beloved family's gathering just because I'm a different religion now and declare "Nope, only Yule now, tough luck!" They're not even all that devout and it's not that religious of a gathering. It's more about spending time with each other.

bonyk

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 804
Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #86 on: January 03, 2013, 08:12:09 PM »
The rule in my school district is that if you celebrate one holiday, you must celebrate all holidays.  So in December, we do a little Hanukkah, Christmas, and Kwanza, although I have yet to have a student that actually celebrates Kwanza.  I've never had an issue with any of the 'holiday' gifts I've given students, most of which have been snowflake-themed.  Interestingly, this year I noticed that I got quite a few Christmas gifts and greetings from my Muslim students.

IMO, this is the other parent's fault.  I have had quite a few parents inform me that they do not want their child celebrating Halloween.  Luckily, they have always notified me in advance, so I am able to make sure that their children are not exposed to anything they find offensive.  If a parent complained after the fact, I would politely let them know that they should have let me know ahead of time.

Cyradis

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1675
Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #87 on: January 03, 2013, 08:13:57 PM »
I always have loved learning about different religions and different denominations as well, and enjoy when I find someone who is able to discuss their religion, denomination and traditions without trying to convert someone else.  I've learned a lot about the Jewish faith thanks to having a Jewish aunt and uncle.  (funny thing is my uncle is very unobservant, and my aunt that married him jokes that she knows more about traditions than he does, from learning about it from her sister in law)

My oldest is in 6th grade social studies and has been really enjoying learning about other cultures and their religions, such as Judaism and Hinduism, so far, so much so that his favorite subject has gone from math to social studies. :)

... snip ...

I was thinking the same thing about my 6th grader. They are just finishing a unit on world religions. They studied Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, and Christianity. My DS thought it was fascinating. We had some great dinner table talks about similarities and differences between religions. What a wonderful learning opportunity that broadens kids' horizons and allows for inclusion rather than exclusion. We also were able to talk with DS about the importance of being respectful of others' beliefs and values regardless of whether we share their beliefs and values.

P.S. A college friend and her DH are Wiccan and yet Santa visited their home to leave gifts for their 6-year-old DS. From their FB posts, they clearly had a lot of fun playing Santa for him!

This is what i don't understand.  I am seriously confused by this, something that has been going on for many years.  Either you do Santa, or you don't.  You either celebrate it or not.  Or is it celebrated when it is convenient? 

My Hindu neighbors have started celebrating because "That is what their kids want."  HUH?

Lots of Hindus and Muslims in my country celebrate the secular aspects of Christmas. They see it as a time for family togetherness. We always had Christmas class parties but we had special programmes and sweets for Divali and Eid as well.

MOM21SON

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3038
Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #88 on: January 03, 2013, 08:17:28 PM »
I always have loved learning about different religions and different denominations as well, and enjoy when I find someone who is able to discuss their religion, denomination and traditions without trying to convert someone else.  I've learned a lot about the Jewish faith thanks to having a Jewish aunt and uncle.  (funny thing is my uncle is very unobservant, and my aunt that married him jokes that she knows more about traditions than he does, from learning about it from her sister in law)

My oldest is in 6th grade social studies and has been really enjoying learning about other cultures and their religions, such as Judaism and Hinduism, so far, so much so that his favorite subject has gone from math to social studies. :)

... snip ...

I was thinking the same thing about my 6th grader. They are just finishing a unit on world religions. They studied Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, and Christianity. My DS thought it was fascinating. We had some great dinner table talks about similarities and differences between religions. What a wonderful learning opportunity that broadens kids' horizons and allows for inclusion rather than exclusion. We also were able to talk with DS about the importance of being respectful of others' beliefs and values regardless of whether we share their beliefs and values.

P.S. A college friend and her DH are Wiccan and yet Santa visited their home to leave gifts for their 6-year-old DS. From their FB posts, they clearly had a lot of fun playing Santa for him!

This is what i don't understand.  I am seriously confused by this, something that has been going on for many years.  Either you do Santa, or you don't.  You either celebrate it or not.  Or is it celebrated when it is convenient? 

My Hindu neighbors have started celebrating because "That is what their kids want."  HUH?

What do you mean?

They are Wiccan but have decided to do the Santa tradition for their kids because they think it's fun. Santa has some roots in St. Nicholas, a Christian figure, but also some roots in pagan myths like the Wild Hunt, and at this point is largely a secular figure anyway, defined by things like Coca-Cola advertising and popular TV specials. I don't really see what's confusing. They're doing Santa just the same way as anyone else does Santa.

I'm pagan myself and have always been tempted to do the La Befana tradition for my hypothetical kids instead.  :)

It's quite possible to celebrate a multitude of traditions in order to share them with loved ones. I'm pagan and celebrated the Solstice with my SO. And then celebrated Christmas with my family of origin--I may not be a part of that religion, but I can celebrate the family aspect and the "X-mas" thing WillyNilly talks about and the way themes of birth and renewal and light fit into my own beliefs in sort of an archetypal sense. One year I went to a Diwali celebration--you can say I "celebrated" Diwali that year, even though I don't practice Hinduism. I went to bond with some friends and had some of the best food I've ever eaten in my life. There's no religion police and no rule against enjoying a holiday even if you love it because you love the people celebrating it around you rather than because you practice that religion.

I'm not going to just turn my nose up at my beloved family's gathering just because I'm a different religion now and declare "Nope, only Yule now, tough luck!" They're not even all that devout and it's not that religious of a gathering. It's more about spending time with each other.

That is pretty much exactly what I mean!  You provided a explanation!  That is what I wanted. 

Garden Goblin

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 942
Re: I have not the words...
« Reply #89 on: January 03, 2013, 09:00:40 PM »
If you don't like Christmas or don't celebrate it, fine, but don't spoil it for the rest of us, keep your children home. Perhaps if everyone thought about the message of goodwill to all men society might just benefit rather than dragging everyone into some whitewashed melting pot where noone is allowed to celebrate anything at all.

Don't go there.  Please.

Celebrate whatever you wish, but pressuring others to celebrate your way is inappropriate, especially when done by government/authority entities such as schools.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 09:03:17 PM by Garden Goblin »