Author Topic: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...  (Read 16276 times)

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Cat-Fu

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2013, 03:29:17 PM »
It's a fact of life that sometimes (don't tell the kids!) tantrums work. They just do. That doesn't make them polite.

But I don't think yelling is always rude or impolite either.
OP asked nicely, it didn't work. She spoke to someone else nicely, it didn't work. She waited patiently. She did everything politely as she was asked to and none of it worked.
I don't think reacting to be being pushed around is rude.

I mean its impolite to punch someone, right? But when its in self defense because they are actively attacking you its not impolite. Its impolite to yell in most cases, but not after asking calmly and repeatedly and getting zero results.

It's ok to punch someone in self-defense because that is a situation that etiquette simply doesn't apply to. Same with yelling at someone when they're about to get hit by a bus or something. But it's never polite to yell at someone just because you're pissed off at them.
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Sharnita

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2013, 03:29:48 PM »
The thing about teachers and other professionals becoming qualified is that there is absolutely no other way to do it than hands on experience. She wanted to work eith all sorts of disabilities, she recognized the gap in her experience was in that one area and she set about to get ecperiemce. That is not a bad thing, that is not a devious thing, it is nothing anybody should be attacked over  Her bosses allowed her to be assigned her that student, when it was made clear there was a gap in her training they neither moved her nor made sure she was getting extra purple training.

OP, I do think there was some fault in your corner. You characterized her aspirations as bad. You complained that she intended to learn by eorking with your sin. I promise the very best teachers he has ever had got.that way through.learning and practicing with student after student. I do think that if you felt she needed more/brtter training and supervision the people to talk to and the ones to blame were above her head.

DaDancingPsych

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2013, 03:33:06 PM »
Polite or not, I am at a loss of what more you could have done. This woman was not qualified, it was not working, and no one was listening.

I agree that at this point, apologizing would only “prove” that this teacher was right. I think you would be better served focusing on your son’s current situation, so that the new teacher labels you as an “awesome parent”. While I don’t work for the education system, I imagine that the majority of the communication that they get is negative. Since this new teacher is working, you may want to voice that. Don’t mention last year’s issues, but do mention how you appreciate this or that of what is working now. I think it would be better use of your energy.

bah12

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2013, 03:40:56 PM »
Yeah, I agree that it's not necessarily a bad thing that the teacher wanted to fill a gap in her work portfolio, and hands-on really is the only way to that.

That being said, things weren't working out with your son and as a parent, you have every right to advocate for him and insist on change if necessary.  Your child is the most important thing and it's personal for you, so I don't necessarily blame you for getting frustrated and losing your temper.  I think it's unfortunate though, that it had to come to that.  Ideally, your concerns would have been heard and addressed by the teacher and the school long before this point and you wouldn't have had to get to the point where you yelled at her.

So, while I agree that yelling is rude and it would have been nice had you not done that, since it wasn't your default reaction to this teacher, and given the circumstances, I can give you a pass.  At this point, I wouldn't do anything about it.  It's done. 


MrTango

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2013, 03:41:37 PM »
As long as you were not violent with her, I can't fault you.  She failed to become appropriately trained to deal with your child's disability, despite having promised to do so.

If anyone brings it up with you, focus your remarks on how much better your child is doing with [new teacher].

otterwoman

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2013, 03:43:14 PM »
My take on it is that the administation knows they should have moved your child, and that they didn't listen to you and they are trying to make you feel bad about making the teacher cry, so they get you to forget they failed you and your child.

Your son is doing better with the new teacher and her methods. Just concentrate on working with her as best as you can.

mj

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2013, 03:47:44 PM »
I completely disagree with Moray. You clearly did your son a huge favor by getting personal because your son is now getting the education and disability support he needs and is entitled to.

I also don't see why you, as a parent, which is a personal role,should be expected to act professionally. The teacher is a professional but your role *is* personal - her career (making things easy, her experience, etc) are not your responsibility, your responsibility is to your son and that is a personal role. Sure its great and preferable when your personal goals and needs mesh well with the teacher's professional goals and needs but that still allows they are vastly different roles.

So long as you didn't sabatage her career, I think you were 100% fine. You tried the "official" route of talking to her and her superiors and it didn't work and you needed to do *something*. If they didn't want it to come to you making personal, they should have fixed the problem before it came to that.

I agree with this. 

And IMO, there is nothing wrong with a teacher getting hands on experience to boost their resume.  But this teacher was in over her head, knew it and didn't take up training -- all while knowing she was not serving her students best interests.  This was clearly only a bullet point in her resume, not a learning experience.  As well, the school knew that the teacher was not in the best interests of the student and with plenty of knowledge and time, did nothing about it. 

The school and teacher made this personal first.

Yelling and calling someone out does not always automatically = rude in my book.  This was not bad service one time at a restaurant.  This was about a childs well being, health and education that was clearly being neglected or outright mis-handled for a long period of time.  These are the situations where you need to raise your voice to be heard.  Well done.

buvezdevin

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2013, 03:51:22 PM »
It is not clear to me that the OP yelled at the former teacher, she "blew up" andspoke "emotionally" which might have included yelling, or might have just been ... Emotional.

Being "emotional" rather than calmly "professional" in this situation is pretty understandable.

To those saying that this teacher or any teacher needed to work with purple disability kid(s) to build her skills or experience - that is true, but *only* after the teacher responsibly obtains the training and knowledge *needed* to work with purple disability.  The fact that this teacher was assigned *without* having that training is pretty appalling.  Even the teacher acknowledged to OP she had not done such training, because she was too busy (???) for the previous year.

OP, I am glad things are now better for you and your child.  I agree with others that not offering an apology seems best, not least as it seems none has been offered to you by a teacher and school leaders who let you down for a full year.  Best wishes establishing a productive, appreciative and supportive relationship with the new teacher.
Never refuse to do a kindness unless the act would work great injury to yourself, and never refuse to take a drink -- under any circumstances.
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Hmmmmm

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2013, 03:53:16 PM »
The thing about teachers and other professionals becoming qualified is that there is absolutely no other way to do it than hands on experience. She wanted to work eith all sorts of disabilities, she recognized the gap in her experience was in that one area and she set about to get ecperiemce. That is not a bad thing, that is not a devious thing, it is nothing anybody should be attacked over  Her bosses allowed her to be assigned her that student, when it was made clear there was a gap in her training they neither moved her nor made sure she was getting extra purple training.

OP, I do think there was some fault in your corner. You characterized her aspirations as bad. You complained that she intended to learn by eorking with your sin. I promise the very best teachers he has ever had got.that way through.learning and practicing with student after student. I do think that if you felt she needed more/brtter training and supervision the people to talk to and the ones to blame were above her head.

But the teacher acknowledged that she had not yet even taken training on her son's disability.  I agree that real knowledge comes with experieince.  But before a professional is let loose to gain the experience they should have had the basic training. 


WillyNilly

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2013, 03:54:21 PM »
It's a fact of life that sometimes (don't tell the kids!) tantrums work. They just do. That doesn't make them polite.

But I don't think yelling is always rude or impolite either.
OP asked nicely, it didn't work. She spoke to someone else nicely, it didn't work. She waited patiently. She did everything politely as she was asked to and none of it worked.
I don't think reacting to be being pushed around is rude.

I mean its impolite to punch someone, right? But when its in self defense because they are actively attacking you its not impolite. Its impolite to yell in most cases, but not after asking calmly and repeatedly and getting zero results.

It's ok to punch someone in self-defense because that is a situation that etiquette simply doesn't apply to. Same with yelling at someone when they're about to get hit by a bus or something. But it's never polite to yell at someone just because you're pissed off at them.

But I don't think this was the OP simply being "pissed off" - this teacher was actively harming the OP's son - using disapline techniques proven to stress and upset him, hindering his education, etc. This yelling was directly related to defending her child.

SPuck

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2013, 03:54:53 PM »
I think the teacher should be blamed and that her aspirations were misplaced and way off. There is hands on training, but there is still a certain level of skills and procedures she needed to know before taking on this student. I wouldn't expect a traditional medium art teacher to suddenly start teaching Photoshop and Indesign without taking a course themselves.

Sharnita

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2013, 04:00:02 PM »
I have never seen any school where a teacher has the authority to asdign themselves, that would include special education teachers. Any administration who assigned or agreed to assign her and then kept her there when there were proplems should have arranged for.some professional development or changed the assignment. By not doing eithr  they at.the.very leasy sent her a message of approval. They might eben have loaded her up with othet PD  that kept her busy.

yokozbornak

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2013, 04:02:01 PM »
I completely disagree with Moray. You clearly did your son a huge favor by getting personal because your son is now getting the education and disability support he needs and is entitled to.

I also don't see why you, as a parent, which is a personal role,should be expected to act professionally. The teacher is a professional but your role *is* personal - her career (making things easy, her experience, etc) are not your responsibility, your responsibility is to your son and that is a personal role. Sure its great and preferable when your personal goals and needs mesh well with the teacher's professional goals and needs but that still allows they are vastly different roles.

So long as you didn't sabatage her career, I think you were 100% fine. You tried the "official" route of talking to her and her superiors and it didn't work and you needed to do *something*. If they didn't want it to come to you making personal, they should have fixed the problem before it came to that.

I agree with this.  You did what you needed to do to help your child.  In my opinion, it's not your responsibility to be professional, it's hers, and she failed miserably at it.  I am glad your son is getting what he needs now.

MariaE

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2013, 04:03:38 PM »
I don't see where it said that the OP yelled? Blowing up =/= yelling.

OP, I definitely don't think you should apologize.
 
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camlan

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2013, 04:05:11 PM »
I once yelled at a doctor because after a week of treatment for a specific problem, my father wasn't getting better. I was sure Dad didn't have problem A, but that he had either problem B or C. A week of polite, patient questioning and suggesting things to the doctor had done nothing to change the doctor's mind.

The morning after my "temper tantrum," there was a parade of different medical personal in and out of Dad's hospital room. Two confirmed that Dad did not have problem A. A few others figured out that he did indeed have problem B. After 24 hours of the correct treatment, Dad was 75% improved. He was discharged from the hospital in five days.

My brother has a child with physical disabilities who requires a one-on-one aide in school. One year, Nephew had a toxic aide. My brother and SIL tried to work with the school for five months, attempting to get the aide the proper training to work with Nephew, or at least to stop her from making things worse--she prevented him from doing the few independent things he could do, kept telling him that he was crippled and would end up in a home or worse, that sort of thing. Other adults in the classroom verified this. I noticed a huge change in my nephew after two months of this aide. He was depressed, sad, scared, instead of the bright, happy, active, alert child that he had always been. He never cried before, he was always crying. He never mentioned his disabilities before, he was always crying about them.

It wasn't until my brother stormed in to the principal's office and demanded that a new aide be found immediately and until that happened, he (my brother) would be attending school daily and acting as his son's aide that the toxic aide was removed. A new, wonderful aide was found in two days.

I don't advocate that people throw temper tantrums and issue ultimatums. But I think that sometimes politeness is seen as agreement, or that you aren't going to push the matter further. And sometimes, with some people, you have to get loud/angry/mad to be heard and taken seriously.

I'm not exactly proud that I yelled at that doctor. I am happy that I managed finally to get Dad the medical treatment he needed. If I had known a better way of getting that done, I would have used it.

The OP should be glad that her son has a good teacher now. The school and the principal should be apologizing to her and her son for giving him a completely inadequate teacher.
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