Author Topic: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...  (Read 15039 times)

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cookiehappy

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2013, 05:27:58 PM »
Polite or not, I am at a loss of what more you could have done. This woman was not qualified, it was not working, and no one was listening.

This is where I'm at. I think that, regardless of whether it was rude, it was justified. The OP tried all the proper channels, more than once, and that got her nowhere. If the OP had used name-calling or insults or violence, that would be wrong. But aside from that, I think the OP is in the right, and should put the situation behind her.

Me as well.  I mean how long was the OP supposed to hang on while this teacher got the "purple" training?  The situation had gone on a year already and showed no signs of improvement.  And in the mean time, her son suffers.    Personal?  You're danged right!

OP, if you're ever asked about the situation, just respond, "oh son is doing incredibly well with new teacher".  Don't try to explain yourself -you didn't do anything wrong.

Sharnita

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2013, 05:33:46 PM »
But I don't think that is completely true. Wanting to be director and not having previous experience does not mean there is/was no interest. It means that there were limits on what she knrw and managed to learn. I think the assumption made by OP and then here would be what migjt require the apology. It is fine.to ask for what DD needs - to make assumptions and insults about character and motivation really don't achieve anything and are not re ally reasonable, IMO.   

If OP had wanted to say she would go to a lawyer to assure that her DD was getting appropriate services that would make a lot.more sense to me.

buvezdevin

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2013, 06:34:00 PM »
But I don't think that is completely true. Wanting to be director and not having previous experience does not mean there is/was no interest. It means that there were limits on what she knrw and managed to learn. I think the assumption made by OP and then here would be what migjt require the apology. It is fine.to ask for what DD needs - to make assumptions and insults about character and motivation really don't achieve anything and are not re ally reasonable, IMO.   

If OP had wanted to say she would go to a lawyer to assure that her DD was getting appropriate services that would make a lot.more sense to me.

Whatever interest/motivation the teacher had in effectively teaching OP's son, and/or eventually being a director, is not the the issue so much as her lack of knowledge specifically required to do her current assignment, failure or inability to pursue training for the full year she did teach OP's son, and inability to plan appropriately for the following year absent such training.  Maybe she will get such training, and then be wonderful with "purple" students.  Whether or not she does, OP was making no assumptions regarding the fact that this teacher already had been, in effect, experimenting with OP's son in the absence of having trained in appropriate  and effective "purple" teaching methods.
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cityslicker

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2013, 06:44:57 PM »
Thanks for everyone's insights.  I actually meant emotional= crying, not yelling.  I was probably yelling in that way where someone says "stop yelling at me" and you think "I'm not yelling, I'm just mad!".  I certainly wasn't yelling in terms of volume- the entire administrative staff was right outside the door, and I'm sure they would have stuck their heads in if they heard raised voices.

Iris

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2013, 08:07:14 PM »
Thanks for everyone's insights.  I actually meant emotional= crying, not yelling.  I was probably yelling in that way where someone says "stop yelling at me" and you think "I'm not yelling, I'm just mad!".  I certainly wasn't yelling in terms of volume- the entire administrative staff was right outside the door, and I'm sure they would have stuck their heads in if they heard raised voices.

In that case I personally think you are completely in the clear, etiquette wise.
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DoubleTrouble

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2013, 08:12:17 PM »
Whatever interest/motivation the teacher had in effectively teaching OP's son, and/or eventually being a director, is not the the issue so much as her lack of knowledge specifically required to do her current assignment, failure or inability to pursue training for the full year she did teach OP's son, and inability to plan appropriately for the following year absent such training.  Maybe she will get such training, and then be wonderful with "purple" students.  Whether or not she does, OP was making no assumptions regarding the fact that this teacher already had been, in effect, experimenting with OP's son in the absence of having trained in appropriate  and effective "purple" teaching methods.

Exactly. I've allowed myself & my sons to be guinea pigs for people who are learning how to do X procedure or treat Y problem but the initial contact is always with a senior employee who explains that this person is learning & if I was OK with it. I personally would be OK with a teacher using my child to help learn how to work properly with "purple" teaching methods but I would also expect that the teacher would be under the supervision of someone experienced with "purple" methods & would be actively pursuing training outside the school environment. This teacher did none of that & I don't fault the OP for getting emotional about the situation, it's unfair to her child & to any other children with "purple" condition to have this untrained teacher.

Jones

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2013, 08:38:34 PM »
IMO, the teaching hierarchy was the first to break off the professionalism, as it can't be professional to punish a child in a way that is opposite of effective, possibly detrimental. They were aware of the problem, they did nothing.

katycoo

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2013, 09:03:54 PM »
You didn't make the issue personal - it was already personal.  its your son.

Further more, you attempted to handle it professionally and nothing improved.  Now things have.  Win, I say.

If teacher seriously wanted experience working with purple disability, she'd have been all over cultivating a relationship with you, learning what you found to be effective techniques for him.  Treating him like another disability isn't helpful at all and she should know better.  the fact that she doesn't or doesn't care means she probably shouldn't be a director of the facilities she's aiming for.

JenJay

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2013, 09:42:23 PM »
wait - let me get this straight - old teacher has clearly been discussing your interaction with others, and you feel as though this is affecting how you and your son are viewed? SHE is the one being massively unprofessional  and personal there. To me, the important point here is that after a year of working with your son she STILL hadn't done the training required to properly care for him. Then, when you rightly called her on that, she has left no stone unturned in her quest to make you the bad guy.

I wouldn't apologise. You had one moment of weakness versus her having a year of incompetence. Personally I wouldn't be above a little effort to state my case. I wouldn't bring it up, ever, but if someone says"0h yes, teacher A told me about your little breakdown. You shouldn't make things personal." then I would be completely happy to reply "l complained about a teacher with inadequate training and the effect that was having on my son. I really don't know what you've been told, but I don't recall a personal attack at all."

Yes!!!

citadelle

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2013, 09:58:56 PM »
In my experience, the way that teachers typically communicate about these types of incidents is to warn one another that the parent needs careful treatment. You may in fact receive better service as a result, which would be a positive outcome. On the negative side, teachers may be skittish around you, afraid to set you off, and may not be as open or honest about what they perceive about your student.

My experience s probably worth what you paid for it  :) but there it is.

MrTango

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2013, 10:56:20 PM »
After re-reading the OP, I had a realization:

If the Special Ed teacher was physically restraining my child in a manner that was not specifically laid out in the child's IEP, I wouldn't bother calling the school principal.  I'd call the police.

JanaL

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2013, 11:45:51 PM »
How would you feel if that teacher brought up random gossip she may have heard about you at a conference, information that has nothing to do with your child's education?  If the situation were reversed, I'm betting you would be completely indignant- and rightfully so.  I don't really understand why teachers aren't also deserving of basic etiquette in their interactions with parents.

If the teacher wasn't following the IEP, yes, that's an ENORMOUS problem.  Any other issue is completely secondary.  I think it is a massive assumption to think that the teacher in question had all this free time to pursue specialized training- this is an administrative issue to the highest degree.  Teachers get stupid assignments from administrators all the time that don't match their qualifications, right or wrong.  Even after voicing their grave concerns and ethics about such circumstances, teachers have no power to do anything about that, other than try as hard as they can to do right by those students.  Should this teacher have done better?  Possibly, probably- I wasn't there- but I don't think that gives you the right to pull random, secondhand heresay about her career goals into that conversation.  That is, frankly, none of your business and has no bearing on the teacher's performance (or lack of performance) in the classroom with your child.  Just because she had to be professional and not respond to that personal attack in kind doesn't make it right that you did that.  I have never met a teacher who aspired to utilize their students as guinea pigs in their quest to climb the career ladder.  Actually, there's not much of a ladder to climb in education, as much as it may be a lateral transfer of sorts.

You are justified - encouraged, even- to fight for your child's education and well-being, of course, but I think that throwing gossip in the teacher's face about her career aspirations, whether true or not, was completely out of line.  That is completely irrelevant- the only issue that should have been addressed in your conference was the quality of education your own child is- or is not- receiving.  The teacher really doesn't have to answer to you in any other vein than that concerning your child.  Period.

I'm tired of the level of disrespect that occurs toward teachers on a regular basis that is deemed acceptable in some circles.  You can be an advocate for your child without dragging the teacher's personal business into the mix.  The profession loses a lot of excellent teachers who tire of being in a position of weathering awful verbal abuse at times from parents, and cannot say anything on that level in return.  I used to teach high school and weathered my share of inappropriate observations from parents.  One of the perks of being a college professor now is that I no longer have to interact with those types of parents. 

Parents and teachers must work TOGETHER, not against each other.  It's a two-way street.  I doubt that teacher wants to have any further interactions with you, and would likely take great pains to avoid you, even.  I think it's best to move on and try really hard to stay professional in the future. Keep the focus on your child and you will get the best results in return. 

 




bansidhe

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2013, 01:05:39 AM »
Parents and teachers must work TOGETHER, not against each other.  It's a two-way street.  I doubt that teacher wants to have any further interactions with you, and would likely take great pains to avoid you, even.  I think it's best to move on and try really hard to stay professional in the future. Keep the focus on your child and you will get the best results in return. 

There was no two-way street, as I see it. Sounds more like a roundabout with no way out. OP kept the focus on her child for a year and made several attempts to go through the appropriate channels to solve the problem - all with no results. The teacher did not have the appropriate training to be working with OP's son and did not appear to make much of an effort to obtain the training and no one in administration wanted to address the issue.

If I were OP, I wouldn't be shedding any tears if I learned that the teacher didn't want any further interactions with me. If I worked for the school, I'd just be glad that I wasn't getting sued.
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sammycat

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2013, 01:06:39 AM »
OP, you and your son were let down by the teacher, the administration, the school, and the system.  In your shoes I would've gone nuclear, not just gotten 'emotional'. 

The thing that stands out for me is that when you requested a change in teacher it was apparently deemed too hard, and so the answer was 'no'.  But the moment the teacher requests it, it's all action stations and she's given what she wants.  CRIVINS!?  >:(

Yes,  an apology is owed here - TO you (from the school), certainly not by you.

JustEstelle

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2013, 02:10:03 AM »

If the teacher wasn't following the IEP, yes, that's an ENORMOUS problem.  Any other issue is completely secondary.  I think it is a massive assumption to think that the teacher in question had all this free time to pursue specialized training- this is an administrative issue to the highest degree.  Teachers get stupid assignments from administrators all the time that don't match their qualifications, right or wrong.  Even after voicing their grave concerns and ethics about such circumstances, teachers have no power to do anything about that, other than try as hard as they can to do right by those students.  Should this teacher have done better?  Possibly, probably- I wasn't there- but I don't think that gives you the right to pull random, secondhand heresay about her career goals into that conversation.  That is, frankly, none of your business and has no bearing on the teacher's performance (or lack of performance) in the classroom with your child.  Just because she had to be professional and not respond to that personal attack in kind doesn't make it right that you did that.  I have never met a teacher who aspired to utilize their students as guinea pigs in their quest to climb the career ladder.  Actually, there's not much of a ladder to climb in education, as much as it may be a lateral transfer of sorts.



I am a retired teacher, having taught a total of 30 years in both public and private schools in Texas.  I have been in the trenches, and I know what it's like.  I also know that, when I had a student in my care whose needs I was having trouble meeting, I sought help from various resources.  I talked to parents, counselors, and other support personnel who might have more insight than I.  I also, when I was going for reading certification (yes, I had been placed in a position for which I was not yet certified), I turned to my department colleagues for mentoring and I attended workshops and professional development sessions, as well as taking graduate-level courses in my summers and at night. 

The teacher in this situation did NOT listen to the parent.  At all.  It appeared that she just used what skills she did have for working with pink disability and used it as a band-aid on the OP's son.  Even when things weren't working.  Even when the OP told her that it wasn't working. 

Believe me, I do get my hackles raised when I think that teachers are getting short shrift, but this is not the case.  This teacher kept doing the same thing, over and over again, even when it wasn't working, and the administration didn't help either. 

I'm sorry, but the teacher here gets no respect from this veteran teacher.  None whatsoever.  Ignore the parent?  Hurt the student's educational needs?  I have nothing but contempt for you (that teacher) then.   >:(