Author Topic: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...  (Read 16185 times)

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gorplady

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #105 on: January 11, 2013, 12:52:53 PM »
I'm going to go against the majority here (and I'll probably get flamed, but I feel it needs to be said): I think the OP owes the teacher an apology for her remarks about the teacher's career aspirations. It was out of line, and all the 'but it's your CHILD!' mama bear-type defences in the world  don't change that. Even if she feels she was justified, think of this: every teacher in the school now regards the OP as that parent - the one who will make accusations about you having a personal agenda/vendetta. This means every interaction they have with your child will be fear-based, and while some people may regard that as a good thing, I don't - I'd rather have honest input and a different perspective than the placation of someone who is scared I will overreact. Apologising for the out-of-line remarks woudl go some way to mitigating this.

I agree wholeheartedly with CatFanatic.

jmarvellous

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #106 on: January 11, 2013, 12:56:21 PM »
I'm going to go against the majority here (and I'll probably get flamed, but I feel it needs to be said): I think the OP owes the teacher an apology for her remarks about the teacher's career aspirations. It was out of line, and all the 'but it's your CHILD!' mama bear-type defences in the world  don't change that. Even if she feels she was justified, think of this: every teacher in the school now regards the OP as that parent - the one who will make accusations about you having a personal agenda/vendetta. This means every interaction they have with your child will be fear-based, and while some people may regard that as a good thing, I don't - I'd rather have honest input and a different perspective than the placation of someone who is scared I will overreact. Apologising for the out-of-line remarks woudl go some way to mitigating this.

I agree wholeheartedly with CatFanatic.

Me, too. OP's behavior strikes me as inappropriate even if the teacher was motivated by purely selfish impulse and needed to be replaced.

Piratelvr1121

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #107 on: January 11, 2013, 12:58:39 PM »
While I don't blame the OP for getting exasperated, I do think that using the info garnered from another source was inappropriate.

Just the fact that teacher was using pink methods on a purple disability without listening to anyone else was enough.
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Moray

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #108 on: January 11, 2013, 01:03:19 PM »
I'm going to go against the majority here (and I'll probably get flamed, but I feel it needs to be said): I think the OP owes the teacher an apology for her remarks about the teacher's career aspirations. It was out of line, and all the 'but it's your CHILD!' mama bear-type defences in the world  don't change that. Even if she feels she was justified, think of this: every teacher in the school now regards the OP as that parent - the one who will make accusations about you having a personal agenda/vendetta. This means every interaction they have with your child will be fear-based, and while some people may regard that as a good thing, I don't - I'd rather have honest input and a different perspective than the placation of someone who is scared I will overreact. Apologising for the out-of-line remarks woudl go some way to mitigating this.

I agree wholeheartedly with CatFanatic.

Me, too. OP's behavior strikes me as inappropriate even if the teacher was motivated by purely selfish impulse and needed to be replaced.

Ditto.
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DoubleTrouble

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #109 on: January 11, 2013, 01:08:30 PM »
I'm going to go against the majority here (and I'll probably get flamed, but I feel it needs to be said): I think the OP owes the teacher an apology for her remarks about the teacher's career aspirations. It was out of line, and all the 'but it's your CHILD!' mama bear-type defences in the world  don't change that. Even if she feels she was justified, think of this: every teacher in the school now regards the OP as that parent - the one who will make accusations about you having a personal agenda/vendetta. This means every interaction they have with your child will be fear-based, and while some people may regard that as a good thing, I don't - I'd rather have honest input and a different perspective than the placation of someone who is scared I will overreact. Apologising for the out-of-line remarks woudl go some way to mitigating this.

I understand what you are saying but the teacher's career aspirations are relevant to this. If you have told people that you want to get experience working with purple disabilities but then do nothing to learn about purple disabilities (& admit to not doing any learning) & furthermore try to make pink standards fit a child who has been diagnosed with purple disability then it really does not bode well for her future career & decision making. I don't think anyone would have a problem with the teacher if she had been putting in the effort to learn about purple disability but she didn't & is not showing herself a competent teacher by trying to put a rectangle in a square hole (thanks for that great analogy Piratelvr!).

And I know teachers are over worked & under paid, my Mom was a teacher for close to 40 years so I've seen that side of it but those who want to improve make time for it. My Mom made the time to get her Master's degree in one town while working in another town & also pregnant with twins over 30 years ago. I have little sympathy for someone who can't make the time these days when there are so many different ways to take classes from in person to online & so many ways to connect with people who have the experience. It shows a lack of professionalism on the part of the teacher which, considering she is having an impact on a child, is inexcusable.

gorplady

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #110 on: January 11, 2013, 01:20:36 PM »
To be quite honest, I feel the parent did her child a great disservice by reacting in that manner. I understand that special needs parents feel that they have to fight for their children (and as a parent of a special needs child, I do understand) but I don't believe in the burn all bridges to get what I need/want for my child.

I have a friend who believes wholeheartedly in this approach. Unfortunately, what I am hearing from other parents and teachers at the school where our children go together is that her daughter is now being treated with kid gloves and they are sugarcoating everything so as not to incur her wrath, because she blows over the top for everything.

Case in point: the music teacher did not want to put her daughter on the risers for the concert and wanted her in the front row on the end so if she had an issue when she got out on stage, it would be able to be quickly and easily dealt with without drawing huge amounts of attention to daughter.

SN Mom felt that it was discriminatory towards her daughter and called for an emergency IEP meeting, brought in the special needs advocate, the school principal, and threatened legal action.

So they caved and moved her to the middle riser, second row. Guess what happened when her daughter got out on stage in front of an auditorium of 1000 people?

Exactly what the music teacher thought would happen.
--

The point is that sometimes the nuclear option is necessary, when you've exhausted all other options. The OP in this case erred terribly by making it personal. I'm reminded of another thread where a poster was upset about how a teacher was treating her son and said she'd get that teacher fired. She ended up getting banned.

cityslicker

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #111 on: January 11, 2013, 01:22:07 PM »
This is slightly off topic, but I am curious how the teacher should have handled the situation.  What would the purple technique have her do when a child is violent and kicking the wall, and how does that differ from what the pink technique would do?

The purple technique assumes that the behavior is related to processing difficulties secondary to the disability.  Techniques include reducing the sensory input in the environment and redirecting.  Pink technique assumes the behavior is the primary disability and needs to be consequenced without any other techniques attempted.  Restraining increases, not decreases, the sensory overload.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 01:24:39 PM by cityslicker »

Sophia

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #112 on: January 11, 2013, 01:25:03 PM »
This is the reason I think the career-based comments were justified.  Her career goal had a direct and negative impact on the OP's child. 

Because she was in a hurry to add purple to her resume, she sought out a position where she would be caring for a purple child WITHOUT ACTUALLY LEARNING ABOUT PURPLE CHILDREN.  Actually, her resume is already spiffed up.  She has "had experience as the Special Teacher for a Purple child. " 

cityslicker

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #113 on: January 11, 2013, 01:26:49 PM »
I want to thank everyone for their thoughts.  This interaction certainly didn't feel great when it happened.  I have some food for thought.

CaptainObvious

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #114 on: January 11, 2013, 01:28:51 PM »
This is slightly off topic, but I am curious how the teacher should have handled the situation.  What would the purple technique have her do when a child is violent and kicking the wall, and how does that differ from what the pink technique would do?

The purple technique assumes that the behavior is related to processing difficulties secondary to the disability.  Techniques include reducing the sensory input in the environment and redirecting.  Pink technique assumes the behavior is the primary disability and needs to be consequenced without any other techniques attempted.  Restraining increases, not decreases, the sensory overload.

Does a school's zero tolerance policy on violent behavior make exceptions for kids with disabilities? Could the have played a part in her decision to skip 10 steps?

And aren't behavior issues always a symptom and not a major disability? I'm not sure how a pink technique would be all that different from a purple when dealing with what they consider to be violent behavior?

yokozbornak

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #115 on: January 11, 2013, 01:37:12 PM »
To be quite honest, I feel the parent did her child a great disservice by reacting in that manner. I understand that special needs parents feel that they have to fight for their children (and as a parent of a special needs child, I do understand) but I don't believe in the burn all bridges to get what I need/want for my child.

I have a friend who believes wholeheartedly in this approach. Unfortunately, what I am hearing from other parents and teachers at the school where our children go together is that her daughter is now being treated with kid gloves and they are sugarcoating everything so as not to incur her wrath, because she blows over the top for everything.

Case in point: the music teacher did not want to put her daughter on the risers for the concert and wanted her in the front row on the end so if she had an issue when she got out on stage, it would be able to be quickly and easily dealt with without drawing huge amounts of attention to daughter.

SN Mom felt that it was discriminatory towards her daughter and called for an emergency IEP meeting, brought in the special needs advocate, the school principal, and threatened legal action.

So they caved and moved her to the middle riser, second row. Guess what happened when her daughter got out on stage in front of an auditorium of 1000 people?

Exactly what the music teacher thought would happen.
--

The point is that sometimes the nuclear option is necessary, when you've exhausted all other options. The OP in this case erred terribly by making it personal. I'm reminded of another thread where a poster was upset about how a teacher was treating her son and said she'd get that teacher fired. She ended up getting banned.

She gave them a year to improve the situation.  She asked nicely.  She tried to work with the teacher, and yet this lady was allowed to try techniques that actively harmed her child.  I think she had exhausted all options.

I also think that the teacher has every right to have career goals, but as some have pointed out, she was using this to pad her resume and seemed to have no real interest in actually learning about purple disability.  That's fine if she wants to do it, but no parent should have to watch their child be a guinea pig while she pads her resume. 
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 02:51:27 PM by yokozbornak »

TurtleDove

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #116 on: January 11, 2013, 02:34:16 PM »
This is slightly off topic, but I am curious how the teacher should have handled the situation.  What would the purple technique have her do when a child is violent and kicking the wall, and how does that differ from what the pink technique would do?

The purple technique assumes that the behavior is related to processing difficulties secondary to the disability.  Techniques include reducing the sensory input in the environment and redirecting.  Pink technique assumes the behavior is the primary disability and needs to be consequenced without any other techniques attempted.  Restraining increases, not decreases, the sensory overload.

In actual action though what should the teacher have done?  The only thing I can think of to reduce sensory input would be to remove the child from the room, which would likely involve picking up a kicking and screaming child. I think I am having a difficult time understanding in real terms what technique the teacher should have used.  I might better understand why the restraining was so offensive if I knew what you (OP) wanted her to have done instead.  I never saw the restraining as a punishment or "consequence" but rather "how do I get this child to stop this behavior before he hurts himself or someone else."

TurtleDove

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #117 on: January 11, 2013, 02:35:32 PM »
This is the reason I think the career-based comments were justified.  Her career goal had a direct and negative impact on the OP's child. 

Because she was in a hurry to add purple to her resume, she sought out a position where she would be caring for a purple child WITHOUT ACTUALLY LEARNING ABOUT PURPLE CHILDREN.  Actually, her resume is already spiffed up.  She has "had experience as the Special Teacher for a Purple child. "

I completely disagree.  If her goal was to beef up her resume she would have gotten the certification and never actually worked with a purple child. 

buvezdevin

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #118 on: January 11, 2013, 02:36:12 PM »
For me the "why" of the situation, whether it was a teacher's motivation to build a resume, or the administration's desire to have a certain work load distribution among SE staff, or misaligned stars is of considerably less importance than the net result of having an SE student inappropriately taught for a full year due to a teacher's lack of pertinent training, with no reliable indication that was imminently to be changed.

OP had been communicating regularly with administration and teacher, told to "work with...be patient" with teacher, and apparently was doing so for a year with no measurable progress in the *teacher's* methods or applicable training.

I don't think it unreasonable to question a teacher's ability/willingness to manage her assignment appropriately when there is already a year of less than appropriate effort as history.  And I would not particularly care about a teacher's personal or professional motivations where they were observably insufficient to produce a desirable outcome for the child student.  OP seems to have been upset more, but not solely by information she was told which may or may not be accurate regarding "why" the teacher was assigned and continuing to teach OP's child - but that information presumably would not have bothered OP at all if the teacher had been actively pursuing developing her own training and ability to teach OP's child or purple students generally.

While I think it would have been more on point if OP had said to the teacher allowing a year for the teacher to obtain appropriate training was all that OP was willing to allow, and the lack of improvement in teacher's skill set meant OP would require a change - OP inferred as much by stating 1. her belief that the teacher was making resume building a priority, and 2. Teacher was not trained appropriately to teach purple students.  The important point is the second one, and it appears to have been demonstrably true, with need for training acknowledged by the teacher.  The first point, or motivation, is not the reason OP objected to teacher - and may or may not be accurate.  Doesn't change the actual issue regardless of motivation.

It is unfortunate that a year of communication with various points did not improve the situation, but an emotional communication to the teacher which led to the teacher's emotional reaction did.  As the situation is now better addressed for the student's needs, I still don't see the need for, or appropriateness of offering the teacher an apology for an emotional exchange.

Unless the apology consisted of "I deeply regret that your inappropriate use of techniques with my child, and your insufficient training regarding effective purple techniques led me to become so frustrated after a year that I mentioned a professional aspiration which you may or may not have."
Never refuse to do a kindness unless the act would work great injury to yourself, and never refuse to take a drink -- under any circumstances.
Mark Twain

TurtleDove

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Re: Yes, I know I'm making it personal...
« Reply #119 on: January 11, 2013, 02:40:01 PM »
Unless the apology consisted of "I deeply regret that your inappropriate use of techniques with my child, and your insufficient training regarding effective purple techniques led me to become so frustrated after a year that I mentioned a professional aspiration which you may or may not have."

I understood that the OP previously very much liked this teacher and praised her for putting in so much effort for working with her son.  OP, can you clarify?  Is this a different teacher than the one you posted about before?